Wikipedia:Stub types for deletion/Log/2008/January/10
January 10
[edit]Realigning Ohio subregion stub categories
[edit]- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the stub template and/or category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the debate was done
We've split Category:Ohio geography stubs and Category:Ohio school stubs into subregions, but as a result we've got some undersized categories.
- Category:Southern Ohio geography stubs - 36 articles
- Category:Southeastern Ohio school stubs - 26 articles
- Category:Southern Ohio school stubs - 34 articles
Southern Ohio, Southeastern Ohio, and part of East Central Ohio make up a larger region Appalachian Ohio, while the rest of East Central Ohio combined with Cleveland-Akron-Elyria make up Northeast Ohio, so I propose we do some realignment and consolidation of four existing categories into two categories. For those who are concerned about abandoning the use of a CSA for one of the subregions, I point out that we already are using Northwest Ohio instead of the Toledo-Fremont CSA Caerwine Caer’s whines 01:57, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
- Could you please be more specific about how you envision the realignment? I imagine that you plan on retaining counties as the building blocks for the categories, but what would the new structure look like? - Eureka Lott 16:04, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
- IIUC, he's proposing that we keep all the per-county templates, but retarget them, deleting above four categories, and consolidating the contents into Category:Appalachian Ohio geography stubs and Category:Northeast Ohio geography stubs. It sounds reasonable to me, so I'll support. Alai (talk) 23:01, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
- Also consolidating the schools categories into Category:Appalachian Ohio school stubs and Category:Northeast Ohio School stubs. Specifically as for which counties of East Central Ohio go where, it would be:
- Belmont, Carroll, Columbiana, Coshocton, Guernsey, Harrison, Holmes, Jefferson, Muskingum, and Tuscarawas to Appalachian Ohio
- Mahoning, Stark, Trumbull, Wayne to Northeast Ohio
- We'd also need to delete or upmerge {{GreaterClevelandOH-geo-stub}}, {{SouthernOH-geo-stub}}, {{SoutheasternOH-geo-stub}}, and {{EastCentralOH-geo-stub}} to the new categories. (The schools don't have regional templates.) Caerwine Caer’s whines 23:53, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
- Also consolidating the schools categories into Category:Appalachian Ohio school stubs and Category:Northeast Ohio School stubs. Specifically as for which counties of East Central Ohio go where, it would be:
- IIUC, he's proposing that we keep all the per-county templates, but retarget them, deleting above four categories, and consolidating the contents into Category:Appalachian Ohio geography stubs and Category:Northeast Ohio geography stubs. It sounds reasonable to me, so I'll support. Alai (talk) 23:01, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
- FWIW, the economic development and tourism organizations in Northeast Ohio sometimes consider it to be a 16 county region and sometimes a 13 county region. - Eureka Lott 01:04, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
- I can see going with the 13 county definition but not the 16 county definition. Columbiana County is part of the Youngstown-Warren-East Liverpool, OH-PA CSA along with Trumbull and Mahoning Counties so a case can be made for shifting it up to Northeast Ohio. Conversely Richland County is part of the Mansfield-Bucyrus, OH CSA along with Crawford County which isn't part of the 13 county definition. I'm also comfortable with my original proposal for only 12 counties in Northeast Ohio as Trumbull and Mahoning are part of the Youngstown-Warren-Boardman, OH-PA MSA but Columbiana isn't as it's off by it's lonesome in the East Liverpool-Salem, OH μSA. Caerwine Caer’s whines 03:35, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
- That accounts for all but Carroll County, which forms the Canton-Massillon MSA with Stark County. Should we be using a 14 county region? - Eureka Lott 03:50, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
- I'd favour sticking to proper supersets of the *SAs wherever possible, so I'd support that 14-county tweak if it's the most sensible such. Alai (talk) 16:38, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
- Qualified support for using 14. We might want to consider bumping Ashland County over from Northwest Ohio to Northeast Ohio as well (giving us 15 of the 16 counties in the 16 county region) since Northwest Ohio at present has the most counties (25) and it's debatable whether Ashland is Northwest or Northeast. Caerwine Caer’s whines 19:08, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
- That could work, too. Ashland County is a micropolitan area, but not part of a larger metropolitan area. I don't know if most people consider it to be part of Northeast Ohio, but I know that I don't think of it as being in Northwest Ohio. - Eureka Lott 02:27, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
- Qualified support for using 14. We might want to consider bumping Ashland County over from Northwest Ohio to Northeast Ohio as well (giving us 15 of the 16 counties in the 16 county region) since Northwest Ohio at present has the most counties (25) and it's debatable whether Ashland is Northwest or Northeast. Caerwine Caer’s whines 19:08, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
- I'd favour sticking to proper supersets of the *SAs wherever possible, so I'd support that 14-county tweak if it's the most sensible such. Alai (talk) 16:38, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
- That accounts for all but Carroll County, which forms the Canton-Massillon MSA with Stark County. Should we be using a 14 county region? - Eureka Lott 03:50, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
- I can see going with the 13 county definition but not the 16 county definition. Columbiana County is part of the Youngstown-Warren-East Liverpool, OH-PA CSA along with Trumbull and Mahoning Counties so a case can be made for shifting it up to Northeast Ohio. Conversely Richland County is part of the Mansfield-Bucyrus, OH CSA along with Crawford County which isn't part of the 13 county definition. I'm also comfortable with my original proposal for only 12 counties in Northeast Ohio as Trumbull and Mahoning are part of the Youngstown-Warren-Boardman, OH-PA MSA but Columbiana isn't as it's off by it's lonesome in the East Liverpool-Salem, OH μSA. Caerwine Caer’s whines 03:35, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
- FWIW, the economic development and tourism organizations in Northeast Ohio sometimes consider it to be a 16 county region and sometimes a 13 county region. - Eureka Lott 01:04, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
[removing indent] When the state was split eleven months ago, we did it on the basis of official boundaries, which are linked on the category headers. Admittedly, Ashland County (and to an extent, Richland County) was a problem, as it didn't fit nicely anywhere. Frankly, the idea of naming the category after Appalachian Ohio is problematic in my mind, as that official designation covers most of the light blue region as well. Most of the counties in Appalachian Ohio are less developed than other counties statewide, and by removing Wayne, Stark, Mahoning, and Trumbull Counties we wouldn't have a very big region. What if we merge those counties with the current Cleveland region and merge the remainder with both Southern and Southeastern — the only counties with significant populations in both of those regions are Scioto, Lawrence, Athens, and Washington? This would result in a single category for all of Appalachian Ohio, minus the Cincinnati and Columbus counties, which undoubtedly would be properly named Appalachian Ohio. Nyttend (talk) 16:22, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
- That's pretty much what was proposed in the first place. The only questions were whether any counties currently in East Central Ohio and that are in Appalachian Ohio would be placed in Northeast Ohio instead because of their membership in a CSA (as has already been done in the case of Appalachian Ohio counties in the Cincinnati and Columbus CSA's) and whether to tweak the boundary of Northwest Ohio to include in the new Northeast Ohio categories any counties that were placed in Northwest Ohio by default because they weren't part of the Cincinnati CSA. Caerwine Caer’s whines 23:41, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
- "because they weren't part of the Cincinnati CSA" Do you mean the Cleveland CSA? Between the Cincinnati stub region and the Northwest stub region is the Dayton stub region. Nyttend (talk) 04:58, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
- Yeah, Cleveland. I just confused my C's. Caerwine Caer’s whines 05:27, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
- "because they weren't part of the Cincinnati CSA" Do you mean the Cleveland CSA? Between the Cincinnati stub region and the Northwest stub region is the Dayton stub region. Nyttend (talk) 04:58, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
Summary so far - looks like the idea of a realignment by regions is acceptable - the big question is which counties should be in which divisions. Any chance on some more comments for possible consensus on this? And if so, is there any chance of spelling out which counties go where for those of us who want to close this but don't know anything about Ohio's geography? If there isn't a chance for consensus, is it perhaps simply worth upmerging these categories back into the parent Ohio geo and school cats?Grutness...wha? 23:44, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
- Actually the realignment looks pretty set, but needs someone with mapmaking skills to illustrate it. Caerwine Caer’s whines 02:34, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.