Miscellaneous desk
< July 12	<< Jun \| July \| Aug >>	Current desk >

Welcome to the Wikipedia Miscellaneous Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is a transcluded archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

July 13

Serious Facebook Issue

I know we usually don’t hat refdesk sections. But this has devolved into a non-ref-desk discussion. Some are trying to help. Some are taunting. But Pablo has been told to stop on his talk page, or get blocked. So any further discussion is not helping. -Floquenbeam (talk) 01:21, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I can’t seem to get into a normal Facebook page. Is there anything you can do to help? The page is for Menchies Frozen Yogurt. Thank you. It just shows a generic page saying “this content isn’t available at the moment” even though I know for a fact the page is exactly as it normally is. Could you please have this checked for me? Thank you. Pablothepenguin (talk) 19:39, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It works fine for me. This is not a problem that anyone here on the ref desk can help you with. Try again later, reboot your PC, try a different browser. And so on. --Viennese Waltz 19:53, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Do you know anyone who can help? Pablothepenguin (talk) 20:35, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What's the URL? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 20:52, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Facebook page is here Pablothepenguin (talk) 21:16, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It works for me, and I'm not even a Facebook user. It's a page full of ads about their products. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:35, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What do I do to get access to this page again? I need to see it again. Pablothepenguin (talk) 21:52, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Did you try what Viennese Waltz recommended? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:14, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tried on my phone. Still doesn’t work. Pablothepenguin (talk) 22:38, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It works just fine on my Android smartphone. Cullen328 (talk) 22:57, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I can see why Pablothepenguin likes the page so much. It has a very interesting color palette that's visually appealing to some people. Viriditas (talk) 09:18, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Is it possible they have blocked you from their page? If you log out of Facebook and can then view the page, that seems the most likely reason why you cannot view it when you are logged in.-Gadfium (talk) 23:02, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tried it when logged out and it worked. How do I ask to have my account unblocked? I’m not sure what to do now. I also don’t understand why I am blocked, as I said nothing vulgar or offensive. I also don’t understand why Facebook can’t just tell me about a block. Pablothepenguin (talk) 23:42, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For the record, my comments on that page were along the lines of “sounds wonderful”, and “we need you in the UK”. Pablothepenguin (talk) 23:43, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Does Facebook have a "contact us" kind of thing or a place you can go for customer support? It does seem odd they would block your user ID without telling you. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:12, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The "owner/operator" of any individual Facebook page has the power to block anybody from that page, without any involvement by Facebook employees. I have blocked many people from my Facebook page for what I consider to be good reasons, but have no obligation to explain why. It is my page. Pablothepenguin, based on your edit history, you are highly focused on this frozen yogurt company, and are repeatedly lobbying them to expand the way that you want them to expand, as opposed to their own internal plans. If their employee responsible for their Facebook page has concluded that you are no longer a welcome presence on their Facebook page, then they have the power and the right to block you from it. Cullen328 (talk) 03:00, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Does the UK have a TV show analogous to Shark Tank? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 04:39, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dragons' Den (British TV programme) Rojomoke (talk) 05:42, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

How do I reach out to them to get access back? Pablothepenguin (talk) 08:29, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pablothepenguin, if the person or people running that Facebook page have decided that you are no longer welcome there, then there is literally nothing you can do about it, except to move on and find another hobby. Cullen328 (talk) 08:37, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Or start your own competing company, drive them out of business with your superior products, and get the last laugh. Clarityfiend (talk) 09:00, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Watch out! The last time I gave them that advice, they got very angry! Viriditas (talk) 09:13, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The problem is I did nothing wrong and they blocked me by mistake. They even liked and replied to some of my comments Pablothepenguin (talk) 09:02, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Personally, I find that hard to believe. Cullen328 has it right – if your history of contact with this company is anything like your history of comments about it on this ref desk, I'm not surprised they've blocked you. --Viennese Waltz 10:59, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I can assure you it is true. I only ever leave short comments of a couple of words. I deserve a second change and I also believe the blocking system is unfair. I’ll explain why by reminding you of how blocks work on this very Wiki. As you may know, when a person is blocked here, they will receive a message on their talk page, and will have the ability to submit a block request. I don’t agree with the fact that this doesn’t happen on Facebook. At the very least there should be an official way to dispute a block. Pablothepenguin (talk) 11:05, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Whining about it here won't help you. Go and sort it out yourself. Nanonic (talk) 12:23, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I will. I just need to work out what to do. I’m thinking of writing a polite letter, but am not sure what to say. Pablothepenguin (talk) 13:08, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Just dropping it...both here and there probably would be a healthy step at this point. Based on your edits on this topic here over the past several months, I'm sure you wore out their patience. People running Facebook pages don't have the same policies on assuming good faith and the like. They don't need a reason to block you. I'm starting to think a topic ban for you on discussing this company in any way on Wikipedia might be good for everyone involved. --Onorem (talk) 13:40, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I will probably take a break from it for a while at least. I still maintain my innocence and I can assure you once again that my comments on Facebook were polite and not offensive. I will admit they were a bit persistent and repetitive, but they definitely weren’t meant to cause upset or annoyance. Hopefully one day my dream will come true and Scotland and the UK will have the frozen yogurt stores I seek. Until then I have to be patient and not a pain in the rear end. I thank you for you understanding. Pablothepenguin (talk) 19:23, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Pablothepenguin While Wikipedia offers a fair process for dispute resolution among its own contributors, Wikipedia cannot give legal advice or formally endorse either side in a complaint you have with a media company and/or a yoghurt supplier. Both are companies that have prerogative to act according to their commercial interests as they see them. However there are other internet social media than Facebook where you with others like you may have your collective voices heard and noticed, in this example by over 200,000 viewers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKDD5t8FIY0 Philvoids (talk) 20:15, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Understood Pablothepenguin (talk) 22:06, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you want to talk about Menchies on my talk page, you are welcome to do so. I don't mind talking about it. Viriditas (talk) 09:14, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pablothepenguin, a life lesson: even polite and inoffensive-in-themselves comments can be annoying if they are uninvited, unwanted and unrelenting; consider Sealioning, for example.

What you have been doing was not intended maliciously or applied knowingly, so was not sealioning, but consider another scenario: what if a sincere believer from a religion or sect you were not interested in continually pestered you, trying to persuade you to join it, day after day? Even if you had no particular dislike of that religion, I imagine you would soon get pretty annoyed.

It's easy to fall into such behaviour. When I was younger, I would sometimes 'lecture' my parents about some obscure-to-them topic I was interested in until they left the room to get away from me. One has to learn how others are responding to one's conversation (spoken or written), even when the signals are not explicit, and modify one's behaviour accordingly. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.6.82.201 (talk) 09:33, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your interesting comments. I do believe that from what I’ve heard from correspondence, Menchies do favour expanding more. I think that they are taking it very slowly, which annoys me, and I suspect that they would like to have UK stores someday. At the moment, they seem to be focusing on making sure they’ve recovered from post-Covid turbulence. I am quite impatient, so that is why I am the way I am. I am also blighted by the fact that I don’t fully understand how the economy works, so I don’t understand why a business would not prioritise growing as quickly as possible at all times. Pablothepenguin (talk) 10:51, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Expanding costs money. Recouping these costs takes time, and it is always uncertain whether this will eventually be successful. Companies have gone belly up by expanding too rapidly.^[1] Even if it is only the franchisee who goes bankrupt, this reflects badly on the company that granted the franchise. --Lambiam 20:54, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If I was a business owner, I'd prioritize both customer satisfaction and the well-being of my employees over growing the business. Pushing for more growth than is comfortably sustainable will tax the employees and may diminish the quality of the service offered. --Lambiam 21:00, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I still think Menchies would like to grow at some point. Presumably UK stores would be part of that. I think what Lambian said reinforces my post that maybe post-Covid recovery is still a more important concern. Hopefully over the next few years, the global economy will continue to recover and get to the point where it is at pre-covid levels. So maybe, the idea is to wait for this to be clearer before expansion is given more priority. Of course, nothing is ever certain in the economic world, and unexpected turbulence may appear, but hopefully if I keep my fingers crossed, things will improve in time. Pablothepenguin (talk) 21:22, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you truly care about the company as much as you claim, why not put your effort into opening a local franchise using their franchising contacts here. I know the knee-jerk response is "I don't have money." Businesses are created every day by people who don't have money. That is the best time to do it. If you are broke and you end up with a failed franchise and a business loan you will be... broke. The same as before. If you are doing well and you have a failed franchise and a business loan, you will have gone from doing well to being broke. So, it is much better to put it all on the line when you have nothing to lose and everything to gain. 12.116.29.106 (talk) 16:39, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is also the matter of me having other goals that would take up a lot of my time. For example, I am currently studying sound engineering at a local college. I am aiming to become a recording studio engineer or perhaps a live sound technician. I am also worried that I will be refused a bank loan as I am on unemployment benefits. Pablothepenguin (talk) 18:07, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It strikes me that it's yourself who's holding you back. You may need to reorganize your priorities. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:37, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think you're trolling us now. You've already been told that your refusal to disengage and go and do something else is irritating to others. Now we have a perfect example of it. You're just going on and on as if this is some bench outside a boxing gym and you're there talking about how you could've been a contender if it wasn't for all these people refusing to listen to you. Move on. Nanonic (talk) 22:11, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I can assure you I’m not trolling anyone. I am offended that you would think that. Pablothepenguin (talk) 23:03, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Meat preferences

Does it make sense for the same individual to prefer steaks rare and chops well-done? Is it logically rational? 102.33.34.102 (talk) 11:41, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes Nanonic (talk) 12:22, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure that there's necessarily anything either "logical" or "rational" about food preferences. It's not uncommon to hear people say that they dislike a certain food except in one particular context or dish. ColinFine (talk) 15:46, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Are you talking beef chops or pork chops? The latter have to be fully cooked. If it's the former, it's likely just a matter of taste. Some folks like liver, which is supposed to be good for you. I hate the stuff. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 20:38, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Beef chops? Pork chops and lamb chops I know, but beef chops? DuncanHill (talk) 20:46, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's not hard to find recipes for beef chops.^[2][3][4] Veal chops are fairly common. --Lambiam 22:23, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

But where would one buy them? I have never seen a beef chop for sale. And believe me, I pay attention to meat. DuncanHill (talk) 22:43, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It may be called a "rib chop" where you live. It is basically a vertical cut of lean beef from the rib or loin, usually with a piece of bone attached. Your local butcher may understand the term "veal chop", which is a beef chop from a young cow, also called "veal cutlet". Traditional cuts vary greatly between countries; compare Dutch beef cuts with British beef cuts. --Lambiam 07:40, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's called rib of beef in Britain. Veal is now uncommon here after concerns about animal wilfare. Alansplodge (talk) 12:27, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The images show a rack rather than cutlets. --Lambiam 13:40, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We wouldn't cut a rack into chops. We do have veal cutlets, but veal is not seen as beef. DuncanHill (talk) 20:26, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Does it make sense for someone to prefer their tea hot and their beer cold? I'm not sure that such questions make sense – I don't even know what they mean. --Lambiam 22:37, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Food preferences are quite interesting, actually. Are they developed through trial and error, habit, or something that happens in the womb? Speaking only for myself, I think they are a combination of all of the above. However, there are other factors to consider. I've met people whose food preferences have been shaped by fear and traumatic incidents, particularly those that occurred during natural disasters when they were forced to eat certain food to survive. Later in life, they avoid those foods because of the trauma. On other social media sites, I've noticed other factors that are due purely to visual presentation. In other words, there's a subset of people who won't eat food that looks a certain way, regardless of how it tastes. I've always found that to be very odd, but apparently it is very common. I think one of the reasons I don't necessarily understand that approach is because I'm personally not so much a visual person when it comes to food. And that's where I stand out as odd. I'm far more interested in the health aspects and nutritional qualities, which I've discovered has little bearing for most people. Viriditas (talk) 09:05, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In the novel Lucifer's Hammer, a doctor character claims that you shouldn't eat pork (or long pig in the novel) rare because pigs can catch most of the same diseases as people, while cattle don't. Whether this is true or not, I don't know. Clarityfiend (talk) 12:24, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The book is from 1977, before the outbreak of mad cow disease in the 1980s and 1990s. --Lambiam 14:02, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Trichinella spiralis and Taenia solium were why we were taught not to eat underdone pork. DuncanHill (talk) 20:30, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]