Miscellaneous desk
< February 7	<< Jan \| February \| Mar >>	February 9 >

Welcome to the Wikipedia Miscellaneous Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is a transcluded archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

February 8

Earth pentacle of the Golden Dawn

Why is this called a pentacle? I see the six-pointed David's star and a circle divided in four segments. The only "five"-ish part I see is that the Hebrew text covers only five of the six parts into which the David's star's points divide the circle (even tho the text itself seems to be divided into seven parts by six Maltese crosses). Is that the reason? 93.136.129.111 (talk) 14:40, 8 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

A "pentacle" is a talisman. Don't confuse it with a "pentagram", which is a 5-pointed star. 97.82.165.112 (talk) 14:50, 8 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

See Pentacle#Etymology. The "pent-" part doesn't come from "pent-" meaning "five", it comes from "pend-" meaning "hanging", as in "pendulum" or "pendant". A pentacle is a small talisman meant to hang around your neck. The connection to "five" is a folk etymology, and came about later. --Jayron 32 14:52, 8 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Makes sense. Yeah I thought it was a synonym for pentagram ("penta-"). 93.136.129.111 (talk) 15:10, 8 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I am very suspicious of that etymology; it looks and feels to me like a folk etymology. I think it is much more likely that the original sense was of an amulet with a five-pointed figure. The Treccani online Italian dictionary gives the etymology of pentàcolo as 'from Medieval Latin pentaculum, possibly derived from Greek πέντε "five"'.^[1] The dictionary of the Académie française has for French pentacle: from Medieval Latin pentaculum, penta- + -aculum.^[2] (The latter is incorrect; in Latin words ending on -aculum, such as miraculum, the a is part of the stem to which the suffix -culum is attached; the a may have arisen by contamination from words like tentaculum.) In an 1877 book a pentacle is defined as "a figure composed of equilateral triangles so disposed as to form a star with five points. It represents the five senses and the trinity, and was used as a charm in the middle ages."^[3] An 1888 text calls the five-pointed star "an Hermetic or Rosicrucian symbol of high import", writing: "In Hermetic treatises it is termed Pentaculum Salamonis."^[4] And in an Italian edition of Arosto's Orlando furioso the term pentacolo occurring in Canto III.21 is explained as a corruption of Greek pente gonia ("five corners"), illustrated with an image of a pentagram.^[5] --Lambiam 22:18, 8 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

You could very well be right here. I was only going on the citation to the OED here, which even they can be wrong sometimes. --Jayron 32 12:37, 9 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Here's EO's take on it.[6] ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 11:00, 9 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Here's what the OED says "Etymology: < Middle French pentacle talisman, most often in the form of a five-pointed star (a1555; French pentacle (now hist.)) and its etymon post-classical Latin pentaculum (1531 in the passage translated in quot. 1569 at main sense) < penta- penta- comb. form + -culum -culum suffix. Compare Italian pentacolo , pentaculo five-pointed star (1483). Compare pentangle n." DuncanHill (talk) 13:45, 9 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

And the OED definition "A pentagram, esp. one enclosed in a circle; a talisman or magical symbol in the shape of or inscribed with a pentagram. Also, in extended use: any similar magical symbol (frequently applied to a hexagram formed by two intersecting or interlaced equilateral triangles)." DuncanHill (talk) 13:46, 9 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting. I wonder why the Wikipedia articles cites a different etymology to OED than. Is it mistaken? --Jayron 32 14:19, 9 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"The pend- etymology is cited explicitly to the OED "in earlier editions (2nd edition 1989)"; the formulation in that older OED text, viz. "some would connect it", suggests that they may not have endorsed this etymology. --Lambiam 09:37, 10 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

That makes sense. Still, then the Wikipedia article in question oversells that particular etymology, which would appear to be a fringe etymology, and the main etymology is indeed originally connected to "five". Someone with access to the OED should probably fix that so that Wikipedia is less misleading. --Jayron 32 13:00, 10 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(I do not have access to the OED.) Another theory, which I find plausible, is that Italian pentacolo is a corruption (possibly by contamination with miracolo) of Latin pentangulum. In some 19th-century German books the etymon of Pintäkel is given as (via Italian) being pentangulum;^[7][8] I do not know if there are more recent reliable sources espousing this theory.