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October 25

Different type of power switch needed

I would like something like a power strip, but with a switch that toggles between one set of outlets being active, and another set. These "sets" can be a single outlet each or more than one each. The reason is to avoid running too much on one circuit at a time. My current method of "remembering to unplug the other items" doesn't work reliably enough for me. If I had a switch, and could only power one set or another, that would solve the problem. Or, I could rip out all the walls and install wiring that can handle everything I might plug in, but this 1926 house can't handle much per circuit now.

So, what search terms would I use to find such a switch, and not the far more common switches that just turn one set of outlets on and off ? This would be a US 120V switch. StuRat (talk) 16:19, 25 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I've never seen exactly what you are looking for, but you might consider a power strip with individually switched outlets, e.g. [1]. You'd have to remember to switch things off before switching new appliances on, but that doesn't seem that complicated. Dragons flight (talk) 17:35, 25 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It is for me. I've popped the circuit breakers several times by forgetting. Typically something that isn't currently on, like a space heater, kicks on while I'm running the microwave oven, because I forgot to unplug the space heater first. StuRat (talk) 18:18, 25 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The X10 wireless remote controlled outlet was introduced in the 1970's and widely used. Not sure they are still in business. See Absolute Beginner's Guide to Home Automation for general info on wireless controll of lights and outlets. See X10 (industry standard), and the more modern Insteon. See also a blog discussing the 5 best remote-control outlets. You could use your computer or smart phone to turn outlets on and off and restrict total current. On the tv show Green Acres, Eddie Albert created a tag board with a token to hang on it when an appliance was turned on, since his generator could only supply so much power. A hair dryer had a large number and a bedside lamp had a small number, and the total had to be kept below the max. Seemed profoundly useful for a comedy. Surely there is software from The Internet of Things for the smartphone as clever as the character played by Albert. Edison (talk) 20:29, 25 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, but that seems unnecessarily high tech and expensive. All I need is a hardware switch. (I recall that episode, too.) StuRat (talk) 21:28, 25 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Electrical Engineer here. This is simple. Go to a good electrical supplies store and buy:

One ~~"two way"~~ "three way" wall switch.

Two standard 120V AC outlets.

A 15A or higher power cord (it is often easier to just buy a short three-wire extension cord and cut the end off).

A metal or plastic box that has the right holes for mounting the two outlets and the switch. I prefer the boxes with rounded corners.

A strain relief so that the cord can reach inside the box.

The ground wire (green) from the cord goes to the ground terminal on both outlets - the U shaped hole.

The neutral wire (white) from the cord goes to the neutral terminal on both outlets - the wider of the two slots.

For the next part, refer to http://images.lowes.com/general/3/3way_switch_markedup.jpg

The hot wire (black) from the cord goes to the common terminal on the switch.

One of the transfer terminals on the switch goes to the hot terminals on one of the outlets - the narrower of the two slots.

The other transfer terminal on the switch goes to the hot terminal on other outlet. Use black wires for both transfer terminals.

If you know what you are doing, some 120V AC outlets have a way to cut the link separating the hot connection to the two outlets. If you can figure out how to do that (the guy at the store may be able to help) you can get by with just one standard 120V outlet and a smaller box.

If you aren't experienced with electrical wiring, before you plug it in post some pictures somewhere and let me know on my talk page. I will be happy to confirm that it is wired correctly. Just make it so that I can see where each wire goes. --Guy Macon (talk) 21:18, 25 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Vocabulary clarification: Guy's "two-way switch" is also called a "three-way switch". Both are "simple" names for a single-pole, double-throw switch. See Switch#contact terminology. --69.159.60.147 (talk) 23:03, 25 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Oops. Embarrassing typo. --Guy Macon (talk) 01:51, 26 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

In that case, vocabulary clarification: Guy's "three-way switch" is also called a "two-way switch". See link above. (grin)

Yes, one input and two outputs can be considered 2-ways or 3-ways, depending on whether you count the input. StuRat (talk) 02:48, 27 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I actually had considered that, but I was hoping I could just buy one, rather than go the DIY route. I have spliced wires together, since every appliance seems to come with an absurdly short cord there days. So, are you saying nobody sells such a simple device ? StuRat (talk) 21:28, 25 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Not for a reasonable price. There are commercial units meant to switch power from one server rack to another when the mains power cannot handle both, but they cost hundreds of dollars and have a bunch of features you don't need. There simply are not enough people wanting to do what you want to do to support a commercial product. --Guy Macon (talk) 01:51, 26 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

That surprises me. I can see why they wouldn't be at the local store, but I'd think there'd be enough of a market to sell them online. After all, there are lots of old houses, just like mine. StuRat (talk) 02:29, 26 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Here in the UK we have Ring circuits to avoid this problem, but there are older installations and spur supplies where the changeover switch might be useful. I remember an electric cooker (the Big Baby Belling)that had internal switch locks to prevent overloading a 3 KW supply. Dbfirs 08:23, 26 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I recall those (every college hall ever) - I also recall they weren't officially "cookers", as that would imply they were permanently wired in and could have a high current supply. As the function of the Baby Belling was to be a small two-ring-and-grill cooking device that could use a normal UK plug and a 3kW limit, they were also called "food heating appliances" or some chicanery instead. Andy Dingley (talk) 11:20, 26 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The "Big" version was free-standing and had an oven. I don't know whether it was ever sold as an electric "cooker". Dbfirs 11:25, 26 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Mount this 2-pole 2-way mains selector in a box with two mains outlets, plus neon indicator(s) if you like. Blooteuth (talk) 09:24, 26 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

That's 240V, and I only need 120V. Hopefully that model should be cheaper. StuRat (talk) 16:31, 26 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The voltage wouldn't make much difference for a switch price, but the thing you've got to look out for is the sixteen amps rating which would probably be too low for your purposes. Dmcq (talk) 11:31, 27 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, no, we have all 15A circuits, which at 120V = 1800W per circuit. Since some appliances (space heaters, microwave ovens, window A/C units) use up to 1500W, that's just about all of it, so I need to avoid using much of anything else when one of those is on. 16A × 240V = 3840W. I wish that was too low ! StuRat (talk) 23:00, 27 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

A single-pole double throw switch is sufficient, as described by Guy above. here is one for under $10, though you will need to mount it securely and possibly solder the wires. It has centre-off for added security, ensuring that both outputs cannot be simultaneously connected. Dbfirs 11:11, 28 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

That's a pack of five. That puny $2 switch is not up to the task required here. It's also not a design of switch that can be used safely for mains without some workshop ability to make an accurate mounting hole for it (they pop loose of the front panel unless the hole is accurately punched). The type of stacked rotary that Blooteuth linked is far more suitable, cheap, and easier to work with. If you can't afford a real one, Chinese ones are also available and don't start all that many fires (actually the Chinese "industrial" switchgear is mostly usable).

On the whole though, this whole thing is not a good idea and WP should take no part in offering such advice. Electrical installations must, in some jurisdictions, be done be licensed electricians and in almost all locations they must be done by a competent electrician. Now I'm all for DIY, but I like competence too. And a test of competence would be, "Do you have to ask this question?" If you can't do what's needful here, safely and metaphorically in your sleep, then you shouldn't be doing it - have an electrician come and see the problem for real, and offer an appropriate solution (which might be this sort of load-shedding switch, it might be another radial circuit). Andy Dingley (talk) 15:47, 28 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Andy Dingley's good advice could save your life so heed all of it. Using only a single-pole switch keeps every appliance that is plugged into the inactive outlet permanently connected to one side of the mains, which is an accident waiting to happen. Blooteuth (talk) 16:34, 28 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Leaving the neutrals connected would be the least of my worries. This is a load switch, not a safety isolator - you do that otherwise. There are even advantages to it: the disadvantages are really minor, but what you really don't want to happen is a faulty switch which isolates the neutral whilst leaving the live connected (so the circuit appears to be "off", but is still live as a shock hazard). This is why we stopped using double pole fuses. Andy Dingley (talk) 17:13, 28 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks so far, but everyone remember that my OP wasn't a request for how to do it myself, but rather search terms I could use on Google to find this device already set up for me. If we have an article on such a device, I'd like links there, too. (While I have done such electrical work before, it's not my goal to do so here.) StuRat (talk) 15:17, 29 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, you (and Blooteuth and Andy) are correct that we shouldn't be giving you DIY advice. Sorry we haven't been able to find an appropriate device. The only safe suggestion I have is to use one socket with two short extension leads and only plug one into the socket at any one time. Dbfirs 22:03, 29 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, that's probably the best I can do. Thanks. StuRat (talk) 23:17, 29 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Don't you have dual switched outlets like we have in Australia and New Zealand, like the one shown? I don't mean three-prong, I simply mean dual outlet. More details described at AS/NZS 3112. Akld guy (talk) 00:25, 31 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hope Diamond

Can anybody here say at what occasion this photograph was taken? If I read correctly, then that gem has been locked up in a glass cabinet either in permanent or traveling exhibition since 1958. So how exactly did it get onto the neck of a woman?--Cleph (talk) 18:12, 25 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I'd have to think they were replicas. I could see one being taken out of it's case to photograph like this, but not all 3 at once. The text certainly does not make this clear, though. StuRat (talk) 18:17, 25 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Or the picture was taken prior to 1958. Evalyn Walsh McLean frequently wore it in public. That image could literally be a picture of her. She's wearing it here. Or, it could have been taken out of the case and placed on a model for a few minutes to allow the picture to be taken. Either of those a physical possibilites. --Jayron 32 18:22, 25 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The new pic is in color. She died in 1947, at the age of 60. While not impossible in 1947, color pics were rather rare then, and the model looks younger than that (no wrinkles on her hand or décolletage), and the style of dress newer. This, combined with wearing all 3 rare stones at once, this all makes me think it's not real. StuRat (talk) 18:25, 25 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

+1. However, in the pertinent volume of my German encyclopedia (Das moderne Lexikon by Bertelsmann) from 1971, there is also a color image of a décolletage, but only with the Hope Diamond, not the other one!--Cleph (talk) 19:33, 25 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Color photographs then would be common, especially among the rich. And just the one stone is more believable. So, I would buy that one. It doesn't look like the same woman, does it ? StuRat (talk) 19:53, 25 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe she's wearing the Klopman diamond. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 20:30, 25 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@StuRat: Well, I'm really not sure, but at least the lady is wearing a different dress, as far as I can judge.--Cleph (talk) 21:32, 25 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The Hope diamond article says Winston used to send it on tours between 1949 and 1958 - and the photo does indicate that all three diamonds in the photo belonged to him. Probably the photo dates from that period. Wymspen (talk) 15:21, 26 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Freddie Mercury and his mic

Freddie Mercury could often be seen on stage holding not only his microphone but the post that would go into the bottom of a mic stand. Was this just a style preference on his part or does this actually help in some way in holding the mic? †dismas†|^(talk) 22:45, 25 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

You can find like 10,000 stories on the Internet explaining Mercury's odd microphone stand: [2] To save you the trouble of reading any one of those, the story is fairly simple. Early in Queen's career, when the band was poor and couldn't afford to replace broken equipment, Mercury accidentally broke the stand in half during a performance. He was stuck with the stand like that for a while, and grew to like the half-broken mic stand as a prop, to the point where it became his calling card. Wikipedia's article on Microphone stands even discusses it. The event was before Queen even recorded their first album, the broken mic stand had become such an icon of the band even by then that the image of Mercury brandishing the broken stand appeared on the cover of Queen I. It was his trademark and it came about quite by accident. --Jayron 32 22:55, 25 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry to trouble you, and everyone else, Jayron. But thank you for the summary. I did check the F Mercury article but, oddly, it doesn't mention it. †dismas†|^(talk) 16:56, 26 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

No need to apologize. I enjoy helping out here, that's why I do. It is more than my pleasure. Yes, the fact that the Freddy Mercury article does not mention it does seem like a glaring ommission. Many, many band bios of Queen do discuss it. --Jayron 32 17:30, 26 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Now added with ref; see Freddie Mercury#Live performer. Gosh, it's the first time that I've ever edited an article about a popular beat combo; whatever next? Alansplodge (talk) 20:18, 30 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Distributors

"If you need specific advice (for example, medical, legal, financial or risk management), please seek a professional who is licensed or knowledgeable in that area." WP:DISCLAIMER

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

How do I find distributors of computer hardware to open my own store? --178.208.193.171 (talk) 23:13, 25 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This has some leads. --Jayron 32 23:25, 25 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Jayron. Also how do distributors usually work? I only want to start out small. Are there minimum order requirements? What are the margins like for the reseller (me)? --178.208.193.171 (talk) 23:49, 25 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

If your asking how to start and run a retail operation, that's usually the sort of training that courses in business administration provides. It's not an easy thing to do (which is why most businesses fail), but you probably have a local university, community college, or training school which offers coursework or degree programs in business administration. I would look into doing some of that before starting my own business from scratch. There are many managerial, financial, and legal pitfalls you would run into, and doing your homework before you "hang up your shingle" is a wise direction to take. --Jayron 32 11:20, 26 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

If you want to start small, you might consider selling used PCs. They can be bought cheap, off of eBay, for example, then rehabbed (cleaned, have hard drive wiped and reload O/S, test, etc.), and sold at whatever markup the market will bear. Why don't the customers just buy directly off eBay themselves ? Well, many people aren't comfortable with that and want a brick-and-mortar store. Many of those people are the same ones who just want a PC for email and solitaire, so they don't need the latest and greatest. Also, you could do the build-your-own PC orders for customers who want new ones, at suppliers that allow that, and add your own markup to that. You could take delivery and have customers pick them up when ready, after paying in advance, so you have no need for inventory. For the markup you could add personal service, like training them how to use it. StuRat (talk) 01:07, 26 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

That is or was the business model of Computer Renaissance.[3] I don't know if they're still in operation. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:27, 26 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Given the user's in Gibraltar, and his interest in men's clothing, he might want to sell monkey suits. μηδείς (talk) 03:56, 26 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

There's nothing incompatible with wanting to sell computers and wanting to know which suits are appropriate for which occasions. They might even be considering selling computers while wearing a suit, although I would recommend something more like a casual uniform. Seems to work for Apple: [4]. StuRat (talk) 04:07, 26 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

WHAAOE! Simian business suits for Gibraltar. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 18:29, 26 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Think that if the OP does his market research, then he might discover that new small business make most of their money from providing computer services. I.E. Fixing the software issues of hardware that people have bought online. Trying to compete with online outlets selling hardware is no longer a viable business model. No OEM (Original Equipment Manufacture) will offer a trade discount sufficient for one to make a net profit. So if the OP has frequented these type of shops and seen RAM cards for say 65 Euros – keep in mind that they hardly sell any at that price as most customers would rather by the same online for 35 Euros. The OP needs to aim for the Niche market of computer illiterates. Just having a store stack from floor to celling with all sorts of hardware and expecting people to come in buy it is just wishful thinking. What the great unwashed masses need (unless their running Linux) is a local shop to fix their computer when it goes wrong (and if their not running Linux, that will be frequently) As StuRat suggests. Concentrate first on second-hand hardware, because believe it or not, the profit margin can be grater. Business-wise it is not so much as what you can sell an item for but how cheaply on can acquire it – and second-hand hardware can be had very cheaply. Aspro (talk) 19:29, 26 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hatting material that had already been closed by User:Legacypac. μηδείς (talk) 20:50, 29 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]