Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2013 April 13

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April 13

A book to read

I was looking for a good book to read. A mystery. Dark and suspenseful type, you know, ones which have dark old mansions and stormy nights. Any suggestions? --Yashowardhani (talk) 05:22, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

The Name of the Rose. Great book, very dark and suspenseful. Basically a Sherlock Holmes story reimagined in a 14th century monastery. Lots of good, gory deaths, suspense, etc. Very good stuff. --Jayron32 05:52, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Sounds good. But isn't it a bit too long? Anyway, thanks for the recommendation. --Yashowardhani (talk) 11:44, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Then watch the film; also good, and one of the few films where they let Sean Connery not pretend to not be bald. :) ¦ Reisio (talk) 12:58, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

This Agatha Christie novel of variable title is shorter and may fill the bill. Deor (talk) 12:55, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Dark old mansions and stormy nights? Try The Hound of the Baskervilles. Not too long, either. Looie496 (talk) 17:28, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

It would be a grand mistake not to read The Name of the Rose. I read it after seeing the movie in the theaters and have read it three times since 2000. μηδείς (talk) 17:34, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

The Moonstone. RNealK (talk) 18:40, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Stormy nights? Wuthering Heights! --TammyMoet (talk) 19:02, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Would you class that as "mystery"? I'd have thought that's more "psychological horror". 86.161.209.128 (talk) 19:38, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Remaining in the classics, Rebecca is definitely worth looking at. Tevildo (talk) 21:08, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

"The Haunting"85.211.192.200 (talk) 08:01, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

The OP and others are talking about "not too long". It would help if the OP told us what exactly this means for him, since humans have a funny habit of being very individual. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 21:37, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

By "too long" I meant that The Name of the Rose is 600 pages and rather difficult to read("In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God". Now exactly what does that mean?) and I recently found out that it's not for children either (so dad won't let me read that). I'm not a literature student, and I'm 14. Perhaps that helps. And also I like novels reading which I feel like I'm inside. And what makes you assume I'm a "he"? --Yashowardhani (talk) 12:28, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

If you're looking for books specifically written for younger readers, but that are still scary, you might try the works of Mary Downing Hahn or John Bellairs. Helene O'Troy - Et In Arcadia Ego Sum (talk) 19:10, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

For dark, I'd go with Edgar Allen Poe. You seem to prefer short stories, and many of his works are in this form. One that comes to mind is The Fall of the House of Usher. The final scene in the book appears to have inspired the penultimate scene in the movie Carrie. StuRat (talk) 03:23, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Dark old mansions and stormy nights is H. P. Lovecraft, although his stories are only mysterious, not mysteries. μηδείς (talk) 02:27, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

How about The Wyvern Mystery by Sheridan Le Fanu? Helene O'Troy - Et In Arcadia Ego Sum (talk) 18:59, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Common names of freeways

I live in Melbourne, Australia, and I've just been on a holiday to Sydney. (For our American friends, that holiday would be a vacation.) One of the differences between the two cities is the names commonly used for the freeways (or motorways).

Here in Melbourne, while the roads have numbers such as M1 and M31, that's not how most of the public name them, nor is it how traffic reports are given. Some of the freeways have their own names (e.g. part of the M1 is the Monash Freeway), or they still use the names of the highway the freeway replaced (e.g. Princes Freeway and Hume Freeway).

In Sydney, it seems to be all letters and numbers. There's the M1, the M2, the M5, the M6 and the M31. I couldn't cope. To me there was no geographical connection between those names and their locations. I'm sure the locals would tell me that "you get used to it", and maybe I would, but it did seem harder for a visitor.

How does the rest of the world do it? Names or letter/number codes? HiLo48 (talk) 09:08, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Letter/number combination in the UK; some roads had earlier names, e.g. "Southend Arterial Road", now obsolete. In France, again, letter/number, and just a few of the main motorways also have touristy names: A6 and A7 together are "l'Autoroute du Soleil"; A10 is "l'Aquitaine". Italy very keen on names, see Autostrade of Italy. Letter/number combination plus name in Spain. Itsmejudith (talk) 10:29, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

British motorways are always referred to by letter/number combination. Everybody just knows that the M25 is the London orbital motorway, and M1, M2, M3, and M4 radiate from London, M5 is the one to southwest England, M6 is to the northwest. People outside Scotland get a bit shaky about M7, M8 and M9. Not so many people remember that the M60 is the Manchester orbital motorway since that's a fairly recent designation of a number of formerly separate roads, and then you get more obscure ones like the M606. Non-motorway highways are more logically numbered, with A1 to A6 radiating clockwise from London and A7 to A9 radiating from Edinburgh, and other roads are numbered according to the sector of the country they start in, the A494 starts between the A4 and the A5, for instance. -- Arwel Parry (talk) 10:43, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

The historical rational for UK motorway numbers is that they take the number of the A class road that they are intended to relieve. Thus the M11 was built to take traffic that would have used the A11. The A Class roads take their numbers initially from the way that they radiate from London, so the A1 goes north, the A2 goes east etc. Less important roads in between the A1 and the A2 are the A10, A11, A12 and A13. Lesser roads between the A1 and the A10 are the A100, A101 then A1000, A1001 and so on. A weird system but we've "got used to it". Alansplodge (talk) 18:56, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Of course, we have Anomalously numbered roads in Great Britain as well. Ghmyrtle (talk) 20:06, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

In the United States, it's a mixture. In many urban areas, such as Chicago (where I live), New York, and Los Angeles, many major highways have names—e.g., the Dan Ryan Expressway, the Cross-Bronx Expressway, the Santa Monica Freeway—and those names are used almost exclusively to refer to them. Elsewhere, as in St. Louis (where I grew up) and most smaller towns, major highways are usually referred to by their numbers—e.g., I-70, or just "Highway 70". (In St. Louis, though, I-170 is most frequently referred to as the Inner Belt, and I-64 is still frequently called Highway 44—"farty-far" in the local dialect—from its previous designation as a U.S. Highway.) Deor (talk) 12:48, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

I grew up in Chicago and got used to the names of highways as well as the numbers. In fact, we had a quiz in our drivers education class on the names & numbers of roads. That way whether the signs read Kingery Hwy or Rt 83, we knew it was the same road. In other places, they get a bit more confusing. Where I live in Vermont, we only have two interstates so we just call them 89 and 91. But local roads and state routes can be named different things depending on what town you are in. Going West to East, Rt. 2 is called Main St. in Burlington, Williston Rd. in Williston, and Main St. once again once it passes into Richmond. Meanwhile, Rt. 7 is called Rt. 7 in between towns and in smaller towns. It's called Ethan Allen Hwy on maps and Shelburne Road in the town of Shelburne. Though I've never run into anyone who actually uses the term "Ethan Allen Highway" when speaking. I've only ever seen it on maps. Dismas|^(talk) 13:36, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

One regional variation in the US is a Californian tendency to put "the" in front of a number. Where on the East Coast and most of the rest of the US a traffic report might say "traffic's heavy on I-95," in California the report might say "traffic's heavy on the 101." In LA there is a mixture of numbers and names. Acroterion (talk) 13:43, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Unfortunately, US roads often have multiple names, causing much confusion. Highways always have numbers, but the locals might refer to them by the number, local name, or either, depending on their mood. The situation is even worse for local roads, which can change their name quite often. In the suburbs of Detroit, for example, we have one road named Metro Parkway, Quarton, 16 mile, and Big Beaver. (You can guess which is my favorite.) StuRat (talk) 16:35, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Like the US, Canada uses number/names. For example the Yellowknife Highway is Northwest Territories Highway 3. The Mackenzie Highway is, from north to south, NWT Highway 1, Alberta Highway 35 and Alberta Highway 2. Of course between Calgary and Edmonton Alberta Highway 2 is the Queen Elizabeth II Highway. In Ontario the four oh one is the Macdonald–Cartier Freeway. The Queen Elizabeth Way in Ontario doesn't seem to have a number but is sometimes listed as 451 or 1. The Trans-Canada Highway has different numbers as it passes through each province and on the second route through the same province. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 16:42, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

I think aside from maps, no one ever calls the 401 "Macdonald-Cartier Freeway". If you asked any random person how to get to the Macdonald-Cartier Freeway, they would probably have no idea what you're talking about. Certain parts of it are called the "Highway of Heroes", although I find that kind of silly. The other 400-series highways don't have names as far as I know, but other regional highways in Ontario sometimes do. For example, Yonge Street becomes Highway 11, and people tend to say Hurontario Road and Highway 10 interchangeably. Adam Bishop (talk) 01:00, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Until I looked at the article I didn't know it had a name either. I've always remembered the road as I once had to change a flat with my back to the traffic while going up to Montreal. Not something I want to do again. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 05:30, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

• In various parts of the U.S., it varies a lot. I grew up in the Boston metro area, and roads there can be confusing for non-locals, because it's a hodgepodge of names and numbers, and the signage doesn't always match local usage. For example, the road looping around Boston is called 128 (wun-twunny-ate) exclusively by the locals, and called that on Traffic reports, though much of it has been subsumed by two interstate highways (I-95 and I-93). The signage for 128 is spotty and thus, if someone tells you to "get on 128 south and get off on exit 30A" or something like that, you're not going to see a sign for 128, you need to look for signs for I-95. Likewise, I-93 in Massachusetts is conceptualized as 3 different roads on traffic reports: North of 128 it is called just "I-93", and traffic reports and locals will call it that. Inside of 128 south to about South Boston it is called either the "Central Artery" or "Kennedy Expressway", and south of that it is called the "Southeast Expressway"; though it's I-93 the whole way, most locals will only think of the section from 128 north in those terms. The part through Boston itself is always just the "Central Artery". There's also 2 different "Route 3"s, and locals don't often draw any distinction, so you have to pay close attention and understand from context whether they mean U.S. Route 3 (from Boston north) or Massachusetts Route 3 (from Boston south). If someone says they went to the Cape and traffic was bad on Route 3, it means the southern one. If they say they went skiing up in New Hampshire and traffic was bad on Route 3, they mean the northern one (technically, they are a continuous route using local city streets inside of 128, but no one really pays attention to that. In the local mindset, Route 3 only means the two expressways). --Jayron32 02:47, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Well, it seems it's a bit of a mess in many places. Might just stay at home. HiLo48 (talk) 07:56, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

... where at least half of the locals seem to believe the Princes Highway is the Princess Highway. They apparently have Priscilla, Queen of the Desert on their minds most of the time. Rather suss, that. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 09:24, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

It's good to be flexible about these things... HiLo48 (talk) 11:08, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Yep, I was just down in the Los Angeles area where there's a mix of names of numbers, neither of which seem predictable or all that sensible. Nice to be back in the Seattle area, where we have only numbers, like I-5, I-90, I-405, and, um, the Valley Freeway, the Mukilteo Speedway...er, nevermind. Pfly (talk) 05:27, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Highway exits

As long as we're on the subject of highway eccentricities, I have a question about highway exits, on/off-ramps, interchanges, etc.

In the US Midwest, the exits along a highway are numbered according to the mileage markers along the highway. Therefore, exit 18 will be five miles from exit 23, for instance. Though there may not be any exits numbered 19-22 between them. Here in the Northeast, they're numbered sequentially. Therefore, you have no idea how many miles are between exit 18 and 23 but there will definitely be an exit 19, 20, 21, and 22. I prefer the first method since you always know how far it is to your exit.

How is this handled in other parts of the world? Are they even numbered? Or are they just called various things like the exit that takes you to Smithville is called the Smithville exit? I checked highway exit but didn't see this mentioned. Dismas|^(talk) 15:14, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

British motorways have sequential numbering, with the occasional suffix (e.g. 21a) where an extra interchange has been added. Very few major roads (other than motorways) in the UK have any numbering, just destination signage. Signage gives distances to the next exit. Dbfirs 15:23, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm surprised they still number sequentially in the Northeast US. Are those state roads ? I thought federal roads and interstates were all supposed to switch to mileage numbering. Note that mileage numbering has another advantage, in that mile 0 is at the start of the road or state border, so you know how far you are from that point, too. Also, there are mileage markers every mile or tenth of a mile, making it easy to tell how far you are from each exit (if you just passed mile 23 and there's an exit at mile 27, then you're 4 miles away). StuRat (talk) 16:18, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

The interstates in many Northeastern states are still numbered sequentially. AASHTO and the Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices has recommended that all freeway exits nationwide be numbered via mile marker, but such pronouncements are non-binding, and many Northeastern states have kept their sequential numbering schemes. In fact, when AASHTO issued their recommendation, only a few states that I know of that weren't already using mileage-based exits made the shift. It was (IIRC) the 1990s, and the only states which did shift at that time were Maine, Pennsylvania, Florida, and Georgia. Other states that currently use mileage-based systems have essentially always used them, or have for several decades, and states that still use sequential exits (IIRC, this is just New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Delaware (except Route 1), Rhode Island, Vermont and New York) have no direct plans to convert, though I think New York recently tried (and defeated) legislation to convert their roads to mileage-based exits. Other than those states, the rest use a mileage-based system. Until fairly recently, California and Illinois didn't use exit numbers at all: California didn't use them on any roads, all exits were just identified by the road name you were exiting on. Illinois didn't use exit numbers on the parts of the Illinois Tollway system, but did use a mileage-based system on non-Tollway roads. I think both California and Illinois have started numbering exits on these roads recently, however. New Jersey is also an oddity: The Turnpike is sequentially numbered, but the rest of the state uses mileage-based exits. --Jayron32 03:10, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

I've noticed an oddity in Canada, if you see a sign that says "NEXT EXIT 25 KM", that means that the next exit is 1 km away. The signs actually refer to the exit after the next one, and are there so you can determine if you need to take the next exit or can hold out until the following one. Once you know they do it this way, it's helpful, but it sure has caused me to panic when I saw such a sign and thought "Damn, how did I miss the exit ? And I don't have 25 km of gas left !". I would change the signs to say:

   EXIT 1 KM
   ---------  
   NEXT EXIT 
     25 KM

StuRat (talk) 16:23, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Stu, these are interstates. I know that 89 has exit 12 in Williston and it's not 12 miles from anything of relevance. Richmond is exit 11. Burlington is exit 13. etc. None of these sync up with mileage. It's been probably at least 6 months since I've been on an interstate in another state but I don't recall any of them being different or changing. Dismas|^(talk) 16:41, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Stu, the distance to next exit may only apply in certain provinces. Highways are a provincial matter and thus they can make their own standards. In the Northwest Territories the sign for the next exit gives the distance to the next exit not the exit after the one you are coming up on. Of course most of these are just for pull ins that may or may not have bathrooms. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 17:05, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

In the US, we call those rest areas and they are not labeled as exits since they don't lead anywhere except for bathrooms and maybe some vending machines. The only place you can go with your vehicle is back out on the highway. Dismas|^(talk) 17:10, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

In the US Midwest, all the interstates I'm familiar with go by mileage. I think Ohio used to have sequentially numbered exits, but they switched to mile-marker exits. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:18, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

France is same as Britain, and I think that is normal in Europe. The first junction is Junction 1, then Junction 2, etc. There could be 5 miles between J1 and J2 and 15 miles between J2 and J3. Itsmejudith (talk) 21:50, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Oh, and in Britain, in France, probably typically in Europe, the service areas are separate from the interchanges. Service areas are known by name. The Watford Gap is famous. Knutsford. In Britain all service areas have parking (cars and heavy goods vehicles), petrol, food and drink, and toilets. In France, you do not know until you stop whether it is just an "aire" with parking, picnic tables and (bad) toilets, or whether there is also fuel and food and drink. My favourite French service area is the Champs d'Amour (fields of love) but there is also the Héron Cendré (ashen Heron). Itsmejudith (talk) 21:57, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

In my experience on French motorways, signs usually name them before you get there, and at an aire, as you have pointed out, there are highly limited facilities. I don't' see the New Jersey Turnpike switching to mile-based, as the exit numbers are in some cases fairly iconic, at least locally (16W for the Meadowlands) And some of the rest areas are iconic too, many travelers who stop at the Joyce Kilmer Rest Area wonder who "she" was. (oddly, very few trees there)--Wehwalt (talk) 22:55, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

In southern Spain, for example near Gibraltar, the exits are numbered by kilometre number, not sequentially. I assume this applies throughout Spain, but I can't remember. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 22:46, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

A few American highways have been numbered by kilometer marker rather than mile marker, Interstate 19 and Delaware Route 1 use a kilometer-based exit numbering scheme (but still list distances and speeds in miles and miles per hour). There may be others as well. --Jayron32 02:32, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

There are also a few "dual-system" mileage signs left - particularly in California, The Land That Sign Replacement Budgets Forgot - which use both miles and kilometers. Generally, these were installed in the 1970s during the national metricization push that didn't really go anywhere. polarscribe (talk) 03:15, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

We have a few mentions of kilometers here in Vermont basically to extend the Canadians an olive branch. Dismas|^(talk) 06:28, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

I suggest you extend them a maple branch, and save the olive branch for the Italians. :-) StuRat (talk) 07:49, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Continuing from my above comments about my recent trip to the Los Angeles area--if I'm not mistaken highway exits in Southern California are sequential, not mileage based, but in the Seattle area they are mileage based. I don't have a reference to cite offhand, but I'm fairly certain this is correct. Pfly (talk) 05:31, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Autobahn exits in Austria are numbered according to kilometres passed. --Viennese Waltz 07:49, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

North Pole time zone

At the north pole, what would the time zone be. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.171.199.77 (talk) 17:16, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

According to North Pole, all of them or none. It's up to the particular group you're in as to what timezone to use. RudolfRed (talk) 17:58, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

You'd simultaneously be in all time zones (well, all the ones that reach the pole, not the odd half- and quarter-hour offset ones). There are some interesting places like the tripoint where Norway, Finland, and Russia meet, where one step in one direction or the other can take you from UTC+1 to UTC+2 to UTC+4 in winter, or UTC+2 to UTC+3 to UTC+4 in summer (since Russia's on permanent DST). -- Arwel Parry (talk) 18:04, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

You can't stand at the North Pole anyway, you'll fall through into the Hollow Earth where the Hyperboreans live. You will have to follow their eldritch and inscrutable time rules. μηδείς (talk) 20:01, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Aha, so that's what happened to Amundsen. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:15, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Where in the world did you think the UFO's come from? Silly mortal! Mwahahaha...

This is one of those Conundra in the Tundra. The trick is to stand on the North Pole and nowhere else such as the surrounding area. Feet have a habit of taking up more space than a mathematical point, and any part of the foot that is not on the exact North Pole is in a certain time zone. Portia and Shylock in The Merchant of Venice will relate to this mindbender. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 21:29, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

One half of your body can be twelve hours away from the other half. At least it's not like the rest of the word where your head moves faster than your feet. Dmcq (talk) 23:55, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

How slender would you need to be, to be standing only on the actual point of the north pole? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:56, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Infinitely slender...duh. SteveBaker (talk) 05:43, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

And the boy gets an infinitely slender cigar. :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:36, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

In terms of infinitesimals, an infinitely slender person is very close to being a point, but points are defined to have zero width and infinitesimal quantities are not zero. Thus, if the north pole is within the area covered by their foot, no matter how slender they are, part of their foot will be in each time zone. -Modocc (talk) 15:20, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

In that case, you can go to hell, Weight Watchers! -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 19:17, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Right.

So here's another quasi-mathematical question: Presumably the actual north pole is a point. If you're standing close to the north pole, or even on it, being 3-dimensional, you will slowly rotate. But does the actual point of the north pole rotate? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:30, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

No, because a point has a location but no dimensions. It occupies zero space. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 13:44, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Why was "Ding Dong the Wicked witch is dead" a poular search term in September 2011

The google trend result shows a peak now - but also a high peak in September 2011. What caused the earlier peak? -- Q Chris (talk) 20:22, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

On September 20, 2011 Glee did a cover. Ryan Vesey 20:24, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, that would explain it! -- Q Chris (talk) 20:29, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

For the benefit of non-British readers, it's related to this story. Alansplodge (talk) 23:12, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Ironically, the wicked witches in The Wizard of Oz (1939 film) were also played by a Maggie. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:57, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Yes, but it wasn't a bunch of ungrateful moral midgets singing her death, just some little people. μηδείς (talk) 04:44, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

That's your opinion which, as you've stated ad infinitum, we apparently don't do here. Dalliance (talk) 08:25, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Let's just say Thatcher's policies did for Britain what Reagan's policies did for America, and then the reader can decide whether those were good or bad things. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:36, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Yes, but perhaps we should say "did to" rather than "did for", depending on your political views. StuRat (talk) 17:59, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Well spoken Bugs. Alansplodge (talk) 18:40, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Yes, they were both well spoken. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 19:19, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Hehe. μηδείς (talk) 19:55, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Sigh... Alansplodge (talk) 22:34, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Grin. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 00:20, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Splunge? μηδείς (talk) 00:23, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Yawn. Itsmejudith (talk) 06:51, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Goosey goosey gander,

Whither shall I wander?

Up the stairs

And down the stairs

And in my lady's chamber chander.

←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:26, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Be thankful you're not wandering in your lady's chunder. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 13:43, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Lest you may hear the Delicate Sound of Chunder, repeated so many times in the pubs here in the North during the celebrations.... KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 16:43, 15 April 2013 (UTC)