Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2011 December 18

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December 18

dumbells

Seince dumbells are so expensive, would using a 40 lb catlitter box that has a handle, like this one: http://www.target.com/p/Arm-and-Hammer-Clumping-Cat-Litter-Multi-Cat-Strength-40-Pound-Box/-/A-12297199#?lnk=sc_qi_detailbutton serve as an accecptable substitute? Paticullary, will it work for squats, lunges,and bicep curls? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.146.124.35 (talk) 15:39, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

Also can I do biceps curl with a weight bar (a bar that you would use for bench presses or squats)? Can I do back exercises with a weight bar? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.146.124.35 (talk) 15:57, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

Yes, within certain conditions. Do not use the cat litter boxes within view of the windows as this could seriously damage your local reputation as a body-builder if a neighbour sees you. Do be sure to wear a strip that co-ordinates with the catlitter box colour for best effect. Caesar's Daddy (talk) 16:31, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm guessing the cat litter box isn't exactly designed for repeated lifts so eventually it will break off. (Not that I actually see a handle.) If you're unlucky the box will break open at the same time leaving a mess for you to clean up. You may also find the shape makes it a bit ackward. BTW how much are you planning to save exactly? I don't live in the US, but I doubt dumbbells are more expensive there then here in NZ and they aren't that expensive here. In fact a quick search finds a 40 pound weight set for $19.97 [1] although it looks like you could only achieve 30 pounds+something for a one hand bar for comfortable lifting (but this was just a quick search). The same site shows the 40 pound cat litter for $39.95 [2] although not apparently from the store itself. Admitedly that seems expensive, since Amazons sells something similar for $19.79 [3] (not that the Amazon one seems to have a handle) but I still don't see why it's worth it. You can get more expensive weight sets, which may be more suited but I have strong doubts even the cheap 40 pound would be worse then the cat litter. Nil Einne (talk) 19:08, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

From another quicky search, presuming [4] is compatible with [5] (which it probably is although I'm not sure), it looks like you could get a single bar of 39.5 pounds for $42.58 with 4 extra weights of 2.5 pounds and extra bar. (I'm not taking in to account shipping since buying in store may be an option at some other store and in any case I'm not suggesting this is the most sensible option.) This is about double the cost of the cat litter from Amazon but considering it's not likely to break off suddenly, still seems a better bet to me. So again, I still don't get the wisdom of the cat litter. Of course if you just want to lift the cat litter once to impress someone, the breaking off part hopefully doesn't apply. But I'm with CD on that. Edit: Actually although the Cap Barbell doesn't specify hole diamater, their plates seem to be [6] 2 inch whereas the USA one is 1 inch. Still from the earlier link you can do the same for less by using one of the 2.5 pound weights as well. BTW, since you mentioned the cat litter I presumed you meant a single handed bar. If you mean a two handed bar bell like FMW mentioned, I don't get how the cat litter idea works at all. I don't do weights simply know someone who did at a time. Nil Einne (talk) 19:48, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm assuming that by "weight bar", you mean a straight barbell like an olympic bar? You can do biceps curls with a straight bar, but most people find it more comfortable to use an EZ bar (but, in my opinion, unless you're a rock climber, biceps curls are pointless). The essence of strength training is that you lift a weight that's pretty close (but not quite at) the maximum you can lift (for the number of reps you're doing). As you train, you'll get stronger, so you'll have adapted to one weight and will need to marginally increase the weight in order to progress further - more reps will build endurance, but not strength. So any resistance equipment you use must allow you to vary the weight as you progress. And different exercises use muscles of radically different strengths; e.g. I can squat about 30x more weight than I can move in a shoulder external rotation. Some people cobble stuff together with containers filled with water or sand, but being able to properly do both lifts and presses with these (given the nature of their handles) is difficult. Good form in lifting is important for comfort, safety, and for making progress, and weird home-made equipment is a great way to develop really bad form, to hurt your wrists, or to drop something heavy on your face. For squats specifically: there's only so much weight that you can safely squat when it's in your hands, because getting into the position with that weight can risk damaging your upper back - eventually you need to end up squatting with a barbell, ideally in a squat rack. Back exercises tend to be various kinds of rows (some can be done with dumbbells, some need a barbell) and ideally a pull-up or chin-up (which needs a fixed bar or frame). A deadlift (for the lower back and glutes) really also needs a bar - like the benchpress it can be a dangerous exercise if you're lifting heavy and doing it wrongly; I can't begin to think how I'd go about safely deadlifting kittylitter. Really, if you're new to this, you need to join a gym. Join the cheapest nastiest smelliest one in town, the one with ugly patrons and no coffee bar. A gym will have the proper equipment and staff and fellow lifters to help you do the exercises properly and safely. And when you drop a barbell on your chest at the gym, there'll be someone there strong enough to prise it off you while you're still breathing. -- Finlay McWalterჷTalk 19:54, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

In simple terms, the basic answer to the original question is that your muscles don't know what they are being overloaded with, and will adapt to be able to handle the extra stress regardless of the source of the extra resistance. In other words, yes your kitty litter will work just as well as a gold-plated weight set, but with the caveats that Finlay and Nil give above, e.g., it won't be durable, the awkward shape will make it more difficult to lift, you will run a higher risk of injury due that awkwardness, it will be harder to perform progressive overload, and ultimately there is only so far you will be able to go with your weight-training. Now, as someone who spent several years in their teens lifting homemade weights (as I simply could not afford either the real thing or to pay to access a gym), I can confirm that it can be done, you can learn and use good form, and you can make considerable gains. FWIW weights were considerably dearer back then than they are now. Another reason you may want to go down this route is if you're not really sure weights are something you want to commit to yet, so are just testing the water. However I'd suggest there are better ways to do it than kitty litter. The three lifts you specifically mention, squats, lunges, and curls, are a bit of a funny combination. Could I suggest you firstly focus on some basic bodyweight only exercises. Chin-ups are good for developing both the upper back and biceps (you can use a variety of grips to better target particular muscles); this could be a good replacement for curls, and it's relatively easy to add a bit of extra weight when your own bodyweight ceases to be enough resistance (as a simple example, you could try a backpack with a couple of bricks in it). You also don't need any fancy equipment; any horizontal bar of sufficient height will do (is there a local children's playground nearby?). Dips could be used as somewhat of a replacement for things like bench press to work the the triceps, pectorals, and deltoids; again you don't need special equipment. Lunges you could do with a variety of added weight substitutes, possibly relatively safely, but I'm not sure why you're specifically choosing them. As Finlay says squats are pretty tricky, because ultimately (and pretty quickly) you'll need to be moving big weights that are very difficult to organise without a bar, and before long, a squat rack (unless you happen to have a hay cart or something like that laying around to improvise with, à la Rocky IV). This page gives you a more comprehensive rundown of bodyweight exercises, while you might find weight training and list of weight training exercises useful as well. --jjron (talk) 04:32, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

OR, myself I have used a plastic box of a simialr size filled with books and such like for some weeks now, and it works rather well, with the added benefit that I can easily change the weight of the contents. No sign of it breaking yet either. though, it does get a little awkward with the shape of the handles if I try to lift it to certain angles too often, perhaps you might want to look around and test out a few different options around the place, find out which works best. 79.66.96.54 (talk) 14:17, 20 December 2011 (UTC)