Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2011 April 28

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April 28

Bumble bees

I have always been scared of bees. Since the weather is warming up (I am in DE), I have noticed , for the last several days, a large Bumble Bee that hangs right around the edge of my porch (where a chime and globe hang). Several times when I have let my dog out, the Bumble Bee comes to the door seemingly in a threatening manner till he/she moves back. Today I decided to go out myself to do some gardening work. The Bumble Bee was out in his area. I then decided to sit down in my chair and relax but always keeping an eye out for the bumble bee -----just in case! Well, I started watching it and became totally fascinated by it's behavior. First it seemed totally fascinated with that edge of my porch, like hanging out there. Then I noticed when other insects, large or small, flew by, it would go after it, then coming right back to the edge of the porch. I also noted that even when large birds flew by it seemed agitated and flew about but came right back to its position.

As I sat in my chair watching it, I was so fascinated with its behavior that I decided to spend more time outside. I named it Mr. Bumble (although it could be female). I found it very interesting that when I made small soft movements Mr. Bumble didnt move from his position. But when I took my arms and quickly moved them, Mr. Bumble would come right above my head to check me out.

Why am I writing this to you as you probably think I am crazy but I am now very interested in the Bumble Bee. I would like to find out if there is a food for Mr. Bumble that I can provide on the edge of the porch, other than flowers? If not what flowers should I plant that really help Mr. Bumble???

Now the last question is this? Will I be creating a problem with bees? This may be silly but wasps and other bees arent welcome. Does the Bumble Bee have priority over them? Also does the Bumble Bee get rid of mosquitos by shooing them off?

FIRST let me tell you that I certainly appreciate your website. It is great to have the availability of your information. I hope I havent taken total advantage of you all. I hope someone can give me some answers on this. AND I THANK ALL OF YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND INFORMATION YOU WILL SEND.

Marilyn Mitchell Seaford, DE

I am really confused. I just wanted to ask a question about Bumble Bees but there isnt anywhere for the question to go? Can someone help me?? thanks Marilyn Mitchell

As to the food question: google covers flowers well. A second site www.bumblebee.org provides information on a 30% suger 70% water mix whch can be used as a supplement. I very much doubt that you'll create problems by planting flowers favoured by bumble bees. I very much doubt there's any interaction at all between bumble bees and mosquitos. --Tagishsimon (talk) 00:34, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Just try to avoid getting stung. I was stung by a bumblebee once and it really, really hurt quite a lot. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:37, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

You told us two important things. He's by himself and he's eyeing the wood in your porch. He's probably not a bumble bee but a carpenter bee click on the blue for more information.190.148.135.154 (talk) 02:28, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

You can easily see if It's a bumble or carpenter. A carpenter bee has a smoothe abdomen but a bumble bee has a hairy abdomen. If It's a carpenter, the male has no stinger even though he acts aggresive, but the female can sting you if she's molested. She will however drill small round holes (about the size of you little finger) in the wood of your porch, but no real damage. Bumble bees are much more aggresive and might sting.190.148.135.154 (talk) 03:43, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Not an answer but just to say I am really pleased for you that after taking the time to watch this bee your attitude has changed from one of anxiety and animosity to one of interest and benevolence, now if the rest of the world could follow your example... Richard Avery (talk) 07:42, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Here! here! Richard Avery.190.56.115.5 (talk) 08:02, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Hear! Hear! as well. -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 11:18, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

The Bumble bee article make no mention of the kind of territorial behaviour the OP describes. Should it? Astronaut (talk) 14:32, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

My personal experience shows bumblebees are very territorial of their nest at least. Googlemeister (talk) 14:49, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

It's pretty clear to me that this is a carpenter bee, not a bumble bee. The behavior described by the OP is exactly consistent with how a male carpenter bee behaves when patrolling/defending a suitable nesting site. SemanticMantis (talk) 16:57, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

The Mysterious Cities of Gold

I saw online that a few years ago they were planning to make new episodes, airing them starting in 2011, but I haven't been able to find anything more recent. Are they still going ahead with it, or is the project in "development hell"? --75.40.204.106 (talk) 00:23, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Not very informative, but we have similar info about a sequel at The Mysterious Cities of Gold. Dragons flight (talk) 04:55, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Proving one's sanity

Someone may know whether this story is true. Allegedly a hotel (perhaps in Las Vegas?) keeps a secret room prepared for drunk patrons. The unconscious drunk is placed in the room where he will wake up later. A hangover will not be his only worry because the room is constructed like an ordinary hotel room except that everything in it is upside down: the furniture and carpet are fixed to the ceiling. There are a typical TV, minibar and framed pictures, all upside down. The unsuspecting victim of this disorienting trick will wonder whether he is having an insane hallucination. How shall he prove his own sanity? Cuddlyable3 (talk) 10:46, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

I'm not finding anything on google. I wouldn't think any reputable hotel would do something like that, for fear of a lawsuit of some kind. I'm a funny idea, though. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:19, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Simple investigation should suffice. I would think the heavy-duty fasteners needed to hold up heavy objects like the bed, TV, and fridge would be hard to hide, and should be found easily. Other things will provide clues - for the bedsheets to remain in place on the bed, for example, they would have to be sown down (or up, I guess). I also agree with Bugs - no decent casino would do this. If a person did think they went crazy, they could sue the hotel for mental duress. Additionally, if the person is staying in your hotel, and getting drunk (possibly from your own hotel bar), why risk losing a paying customer? Surely at least a few people would cancel a two-week stay at a hotel that did this and go somewhere else, and then the business is out of that money. ^Avic_ennasis @ 17:02, 24 Nisan 5771 / 28 April 2011 (UTC)

One thing that every drunk learns (usually the hard way): gravity is very convincing. --Ludwigs2 17:08, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

It is never possible for anybody to prove their own sanity, in any way that means anything. Looie496 (talk) 21:51, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

There was a story decades ago about an anonymous rich guy who had such a room built, to put his friends in when they fell asleep drunk at his parties, They woke up, thought they were on the "ceiling," and clung desparately to the light fixture. Hilarity ensued for the others watching through the 2-way mirror. All fiction. This might be derived from the Fred Astaire dance sequence wherein he dances up the walls and across the ceiling in a room which rotated, ironically in the timely "Royal Wedding" movie.Then see [1]Pity the cameramen! Edison (talk) 04:28, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Quite possibly the camera was fixed in place on the king-sized wheel and simply allowed to run. The Fred Astaire trick has been used a number of times. Two that come to mind are the gravity-defying lunar shuttle scene in 2001: A Space Odyssey and also a Lionel Richie video (consciously imitating Astaire) for "Dancing on the Ceiling". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 05:36, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

The illusion would work best if the camera was rigidly attached to the room as it rotated, but the lights as well, otherwise one would see the room turning. The lighting effect would also be distracting, if the shadows moved while the room rotated. The upside down scenes in The Poseidon Adventure also are reminiscent of the room described by the OP. Edison (talk) 14:35, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

This question immediately brought to my mind the "Waking Dead" episode from Derren Brown's a Trick of the Mind. In this a person playing a zombie arcade game in a pub is apparently put into a "catatonic state" then transported to a real life mockup of the game world. A fake gun is placed in his hands and he is then woken up as actors playing zombies lurch towards him. He ends up flipping out, shooting indiscriminately (at both the mock zombies and the mock hostages he is meant to rescue in the game), and barricading himself in a room before trying to escape through a window. I suspect this was done with a stooge, but if it was real the implications are actually quite disturbing (not least the legal implications of doing all this!). Equisetum (talk | email | contributions) 16:42, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Exactism in Japanese shopping - how come?

If I'm 2 pennies short, the cashier will take them from a nearby tray, or just say "close enough" and go through with the transaction.

But when I was 2 yen short in Japan, why did they demand the extra 2 yen in the same way that they'd demand an extra 2000 yen if that were to happen? This was when the Yen was worth less than today; when I was there, it hovered around 105 to $1.

Why didn't the Chitosepia department store have an extra-coin tray? Why couldn't they be "close enough?" Isn't this what would happen if Adrian Monk manned the cash register? --129.130.99.8 (talk) 10:54, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Local customs differ. In the UK, I've never seen an "extra coin tray" (unless you count the plate sometimes put by the cash desk for gratuities in restaurants/cafes) and only in a local store where you were a recognised regular might you hear "close enough" or "you can owe it to me". Your "exactism" is certainly the standard practice in all department stores here. Gandalf61 (talk) 11:34, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Same in Malaysia and I think New Zealand (although I rarely use cash and we don't even have 5 cents any more). In a similar vein, most people are going to expect exact change and not accept it being 'close enough. McDonalds in Malaysia did have boxes for their charity mostly filled by 1 cents for people who didn't want to bother with them but they obviously weren't designed to have the money taken out. Nil Einne (talk) 11:37, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

In the U.S., we have "take a penny, leave a penny". ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 12:41, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

When I lived in Kazakhstan about 10 years ago, the 1 Tenge coins (then about 150 Tenge to a dollar) were in short supply, and shopkeepers would typically give a box of wooden matches in place of 1 Tenge. Everybody had the same brand of matches, and everybody used them for this purpose, though I don't think that the matches would be taken by the shops as payment. Staecker (talk) 13:21, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

In the Eurozone, some countries no longer use the 1 and 2 cent coins. Certainly, stores in the Netherlands and Finland round up or down to the nearest 5 cents. However, if you pay by card, you are charged the exact amount. As for a "take a penny, leave a penny" tray, I have only ever seen these in the USA. I always though it was because most shelf prices in the USA are exclusive of sales tax leading to some odd total prices - so $6.99 becomes $7.16 at the checkout; while in most(?) other countries the shelf price is inclusive of sales tax so $6.99 stays $6.99 at the checkout. Astronaut (talk) 14:28, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Minor correction: most, but not all, stores in The Netherlands round to the nearest 5 cents. This is allowed, but not required, since 1 sept 2004. E.g. my local (I am from The Netherlands) Aldi super market doesn't round. 93.95.251.162 (talk) 14:34, 3 May 2011 (UTC) Martin.

The "take a penny, leave a penny" thing is a fairly recent development in the United States. I worked as a cashier in the U.S. during the early 1980s, and there was no such thing back then in the Northeast at least. The customer was expected to pay the exact amount (or more, in which case we would give change in pennies as needed). It is hard for me to remember when this developed. No doubt, it began in some region of the United States and spread. I think I remember seeing containers with pennies at cash registers for the first time in the early 1990s in California. Anyway, there is no reason to expect that other countries will have the same customs as the United States. Marco polo (talk) 15:45, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Canada has them (or had them, we love using our credit/debitcards here) and perhaps even earlier than the US if Marco polo is correct. I recall seeing them as a child at convenience stores in SW Ontario and that would have been in the early 80s. Matt Deres (talk) 20:33, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

I've seen take a penny/leave a penny in gas/petrol stations in the UK, but it's rare. (If you're trying to buy ten pounds worth of fuel but go over the penny comes in useful.) --Colapeninsula (talk) 10:01, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

My first visit to Japan back in 2002, I made the mistake of trying to refuse the 3 yen change I was due. With insufficient grasp of the language to explain myself, I just dismissed the change with a wave of my hand and exited the convenience store. To my great embarrassment, the poor cashier came shuffling out after me in that uniquely Japanese young female employee way and insisted, on the side of the damn street, that I take my 3 yen. It was only then that I realized the extent of my cultural mistake. Every place is different, OP. Never forget that point! The Masked Booby (talk) 01:45, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

In Japan, it will depend on the shop and very often the individual employee whether you can get away with being a couple of yen short. I have been short a few times in Japan, and still managed to complete my shopping. However, TheMaskedBooby is correct, in that the Japanese will make sure you get every single yen of your change paid to you - to the extent of even following you onto the street - but this is the service. On a related note, my friend left his camera in a shop in Numazu, and we walked off to the station and onto the train. A shopkeeper came running onto the train to give him his camera back and the train left with the poor shopkeeper still on it with us. It's just the service. --KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 14:14, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Several years ago, when the Italian currency was still the Lira, I was travelling in Rome and bought a couple of postcards at a little stand. They were the only postcards I saw that I wanted. There was absolutely not a single other postcard in the guy's rack that appealed to me. I gave him the smallest denomination of Lira note that exited at the time, I can't remember what it was, and there was no change available, there was nothing smaller in denomination. So the vendor gave me a telephone token as change.  :) 216.93.212.245 (talk) 21:39, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

When I was last in Italy, 1977, small change was mostly in the form of notes issued by banks and credit-unions. —Tamfang (talk) 03:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

class war question

Hello, what would happen if the british middle class and the british working class were to actually fight against each other? What would happen and who would win? Jeremy Wordsworth (talk) 11:47, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Classes aren't in and of themselves organised for class warfare. You may wish to look at what happened during the British General Strike. Or Gramsci's concepts of wars of position and wars of manoeuvre. Fifelfoo (talk) 11:57, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

The term class war is mainly used metaphorically these days. People use it to refer to legislation, strikes, and so on, rather than exchanges of artillery fire. I'm not sure which meaning you have in mind. Also, these days, it is much less clear than it was in our grandparents' day who exactly belongs to the working class and who belongs to the middle class. There are many different definitions of class about. So it's hard to know what the configurations of any "class war" would be. Finally, Wikipedia is not a crystal ball, so even if you defined your question more precisely, we wouldn't be able to offer predictions. Marco polo (talk) 15:37, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

I don't agree with Marco polo's implication that this speculation has to be baseless. Social structure of the United Kingdom breaks out several specific classifications that distinguish the middle class and the working class. Our article Income in the United Kingdom shows how many taxpayers there are sorted by income. Bringing the two together, I'd say that if the two sides literally fought each other, the working class would win because of numbers; I don't think access to firearms would be much of an impediment, as many military servicemen and police officers are drawn from the working class, and some of those do have the keys to the lockboxes. Comet Tuttle (talk) 20:18, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

What is your source for the claim that there are more working class people in the UK than middle class? The important thing for this question is how people self-identify, not some arbitrary income threshold, which you seem to be basing your claim on. This BBC News article from 2007 gives a figure of 57% identifying as working class. That's not anywhere near a big enough majority for numbers to be the determining factor. --Tango (talk) 22:19, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

My source is the income chart I cited above. That said, you're right. Comet Tuttle (talk) 20:33, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

• There are definitely more proletarians in the United Kingdom than there are Nomenklatura (New class members, technocrats, etc.). Andy Anderson in The Enemy is Middle Class (Pamphlet, ?Homocult publisher) makes a strong and suasive argument that the largest threat to the working class is the nomenklatura technocrats inflicting sociology, pedagogy, etc. on workers. However, Anderson doesn't clearly draw the difference between the "middle class" a cultural phenomena, and "nomenklatura" a relationship to production. There have long been "middle class" proletarians—postal telegraph operators, journalists, registrars-for-life doctors. Some have been markedly more militant in the cause for social control of production than right wing "working class" unions. Fifelfoo (talk) 22:58, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Symbol named after a person

Weierstrass p is a typographical symbol named after a person. Are there others? Staecker (talk) 12:44, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

There's the octothorpe. I know it's not a common term for #, but I do occasionally hear it 'in the wild'. I once read an account (possibly apocryphal) that an engineer ( at AT&T? ) named it the octothorpe because it had eight terminal ends, and the engineer liked Jim Thorpe. You might be able to verify/debunk this with some googling. SemanticMantis (talk) 13:51, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

This source confirms my memory, but it was at Bell labs. [2].SemanticMantis (talk) 14:00, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Also, if you interpret the typographic construction monolithically, the legendre symbol might count. SemanticMantis (talk) 13:54, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Guillemets, after Guillaume Le Bé. -- Finlay McWalter ☻ Talk 14:10, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Why stop at a single glyph ? Some people have a whole typeface named after them. Gandalf61 (talk) 14:50, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Kurt Vonnegut used to sign an asterisk after his name. [3] ^Avic_ennasis @ 17:11, 24 Nisan 5771 / 28 April 2011 (UTC)

That was probably an inside joke, since he used the asterisk as a plot device in at least 2 of his novels. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:35, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

The Costa Rican colón and Salvadoran colón were both named after Cristóbal Colón, and they have their own symbol:

--Antiquary (talk) 20:20, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Not sure if this counts, but The Love Symbol? Robinh (talk) 10:06, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

And talking about Bell labs, how about the Bell character? Not that you can normally see it of course, only hear it so you need a second character ␇ to represent it :) Dmcq (talk) 20:37, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Actually if you look at [4] there's a whole load of them - Planck constant, Euler's constant, degrees Celsius, Ohm sign, Kelvin sign, Angstrom sign and degree Farenheit. Dmcq (talk) 20:47, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Name of the oceans in the world

Everybody know that there are 4 oceans in the world.... I know only 2 names of oceans...That's everybody know... It's Pacific Ocean & Atlantic Ocean... So what's the name of the other's 2 ocean's name?????

Arctic Ocean and Indian Ocean. Some authorities also recognise the Southern Ocean as a separate entity. Roger (talk) 16:21, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

See also our article on oceans.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 17:07, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Some folks also divide the Atlantic and Pacific into North and South, thus identifying a modernized style of the ancient expression Seven Seas. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:33, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Also some people have been trying to add an Antarctic Ocean. Googlemeister (talk) 13:22, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps including Roger, just above... Matt Deres (talk) 13:28, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Excuse me Matt Deres, what have I ever done to you to deserve such a snarky ad hominem comment? I have never and will never claim to be an authority on oceanography. If you would bother to actually read the article at Southern Ocean you will find citations to reliable sources that detail the arguments, by widely recognised and even respected authorities on oceanography, for and against recognition of the Southern Ocean as a separate entity. Roger (talk) 21:15, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Roger, I think Matt was just pointing out to Googlemeister that his comment was redundant because you had already mentioned it... As far as I can see, he meant absolutely nothing rude by it! Cherry Red Toenails (talk) 06:19, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

Indeed. How the hell do you get an ad hominem attack out of what I wrote? If anything, I was tweaking Googlemeister for not bothering to read the responses before replying. Calm down, son; mentioning your name =/= ad hominem! Matt Deres (talk) 22:40, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

Identify this aircraft

Please help identify the type of aircraft in these photos: This photo shows the upper surface of the wing and this one shows the forward view from the cockpit. The images are from a film made in France at least twenty years ago. Roger (talk) 16:34, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

The Cockpit roof and single-engine make me think of the Piper PA-38 Tomahawk or the Beechcraft Skipper, however the wings seem a bit different to me. Perhaps the name of the film, or at least the topic would help? (Or more still-frame images?) ^Avic_ennasis @ 18:35, 24 Nisan 5771 / 28 April 2011 (UTC)

I misstated the age of the images - they date from only 10 years ago, though the condition of the wing skin strongly indicates that the plane was already quite old at the time. The cockpit roof is also highly suggestive of a sliding canopy - which excludes the Tomahawk or Skipper. I suspect it's more likely to be a French type than American. The rest of the available information is in this forum discussion - [5]. Roger (talk) 19:55, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Doesnt appear to be very large certainly smaller than a tomahawk and gives the appearance of a single-seat, agree on the sliding canopy but the single piece windscreen might be a clue as it is not that common, but to what I am not sure of. Did think of an early Nord or Me 108 but they dont have a clear one piece windshield. MilborneOne (talk) 20:27, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

I believe the forum got it - seems to be a Socata Rallye, specifically a Socata Rallye 235E-D Gabier. Cockpit and wings match, Company based in France, production time seems right, et cetera. ^Avic_ennasis @ 21:28, 24 Nisan 5771 / 28 April 2011 (UTC)

This 235E image [6] doesnt show the same cockpit! and the standy compass is supported by a full screen post. MilborneOne (talk) 21:41, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

I stand corrected. :) Perhaps I'm not as handy with planes as I thought I was! ^Avic_ennasis @ 22:57, 24 Nisan 5771 / 28 April 2011 (UTC)

So we have a consensus that it is a Rallye but the variant is not known. BTW it seems the source is somebody's personal video recording, not a commercial movie. Roger (talk) 08:18, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

The 150 looks the best candidate. If you take a look at the cockpit (although those constantly change, so it's not a good indicator in and of itself), there are no yokes protruding from the panel. The panel itself is small, and the main gauges are centered - instead of a set on each side, as found on other aircraft. The aircraft is therefore handled with a stick, and may (it's not certain) be dimensioned for only two people. While statistically it's likely to be the MS.885, on the surface it could be the MS.880 or 881. 80.213.11.105 (talk) 16:15, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Astronauts

In space, where there is no gravity/microgravity, how to astronauts weigh themselves? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chaosandwalls (talk • contribs) 17:09, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

On the ISS the astronauts use a device called SLAMMD, which uses springs to exert a known force on the astronaut. The acceleration that force produces is directly proportional to the astronaut's mass. anonymous6494 17:44, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Where directly means inversely. —Tamfang (talk) 02:24, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Precisely. anonymous6494 03:16, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Ah, Thank you Chaosandwalls (talk) 19:37, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

Nude beach in Toronto

I live in Toronto and I want to visit the nude beach at the island. Do you know how much it cost to pay for the ferry to get me to the island and how much it costs to pay go back? Thanks and sorry for not making sense. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.31.20.141 (talk) 17:40, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Although you don't mention which one of the Toronto Islands you mean, I assume you mean Hanlan's Point Beach. The fare (including return) for an adult would be $6.50. Hope this helps. ^Avic_ennasis @ 18:39, 24 Nisan 5771 / 28 April 2011 (UTC)

This time of year is probably still part of what might call the "off-season". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:28, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

yeeees... you might want to add the medical bills for some unpleasant forms of frostbite into that $6.50 figure. --Ludwigs2 21:48, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Guys, April in Toronto is not exactly Cremation of Sam McGee territory. Wunderground shows a high today of 50 F, with winds of 26 mph. Not ideal for nude-beaching, but the hardier sorts might do it. --Trovatore (talk) 21:51, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Probably a boon for those who enjoy seeing seriously erect nipples, although I can also think of some negative side effects on the part of the male viewers. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:54, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

One doesn't talk about such things in nude-recreation circles. It's not supposed to be a strip show. By the way, the "hardier sorts" are almost exclusively male. --Trovatore (talk) 22:15, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

{{fact}} --Tango (talk) 22:20, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

The negative side effects I was referring to have to do primarily with shrinkage... especially if you take a dip in the icy lake. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 04:49, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

I've been to a number of nude beaches, both on purpose and on accident, in my day, and I can tell you it's not worth the fare. Quinn ^{✩ STARRY NIGHT} 02:28, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

All that means is that you're not going to the right ones, a comment I will steadfastly refuse to clarify. --Ludwigs2 02:31, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

With apologies to Groucho Marx: "I wouldn't want to visit any nude beach that will accept me as a bather." -- 174.31.219.218 (talk) 05:20, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

No kidding. Anyone who's ever been in a locker room (which would be most of us) would know that the average citizen is not centerfold material. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 05:33, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Anyone who's ever been in a locker room would know that the average citizen of the same gender as themselves is not centerfold material. Most locker rooms (unless you're in a particularly liberal society) don't tell us much about the other gender, which is what we are usually more interested in. Mitch Ames (talk) 14:15, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Certainly. It's just that if most of us males look average at best, it's reasonable to assume that most females also look average at best. However, I'm not willing to say that there wouldn't be some elevated level of interest, in studying that situation, for scientific purposes of course. 0:) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:08, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

It's interesting: I've been to both public and private nude beaches, and they are very different experiences. on public nude beaches you inevitably get gawkers, which makes you conscious of the nudity. On private nude beaches, there's maybe a half hour or so where it feels a little odd, but then you basically stop noticing that people are nude - it becomes normal. At a private nude beach, no one really cares whether you look average - style and beauty issues take other venues. --Ludwigs2 00:16, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

I am the same person who ask before and I have another question. How much do I have to pay for the parking at the ferry dock for the Hanlan's Point Beach? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.92.153.17 (talk) 15:10, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Looking on Google Street View, the parking across from the end of Yonge St seems to be $10, though I can't make out whether that's per hour or per day - per hour makes it sound expensive, per day makes it sound like a very good deal for essentially downtown parking. Astronaut (talk) 17:58, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

It's per day. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:59, 29 April 2011 (UTC)