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August 22

Why do some people say "called as" instead of "called"?

I consider the use of "as" in sentences like "People who steal are called as thieves." to be unnecessary as well as improper; such a sentence should say "People who steal are called thieves." instead. My best guess is that some people see sentences like "People who steal are referred to as thieves." and run with the erroneous assumption that "as" should always go after a verb before a noun in cases where they really shouldn't.

Examples of correct uses of as:

John doe was called as a witness.
"John Doe was called a witness." would have a different meaning.
The battle was regarded as having been won.
The phrase "regarded having been won" wouldn't sound right.
The backup plan was considered as an option.
The phrases "The backup plan was considered an option." and "The backup plan was considered to be an option." mean the same thing, whereas the use of "as" would imply that the backup plan was indeed taken into consideration.
The CEO was derided as a menace to society.
The phrase "was derided a menace to society" would sound weird.
The Army veterans were praised as heroes.
"Praised heroes" would refer to heroes who are praised, so it could work in theory, though it would sound weird.
The chosen one was championed as a role model.
The phrase "was championed a role model" may not sound right.
The king was referred to as mighty.
The phrase "was referred to mighty." wouldn't sound right.

Examples of questionable uses of as:

The actor was called as a movie star.
"The actor was called a movie star." (people simply called the actor a movie star)

"The actor was cast as a movie star." (as though to portray a character; the meaning implied by the presence of the word as)

"The actor was called to be a movie star." (this would imply that the actor's destiny was to be a real-life movie star)
The campaign was considered as a success.
"The campaign was considered a success." (more correct)

"The campaign was considered to be a success." (same meaning)
The captain was deemed as worthy of honor.
"The captain was deemed worthy of honor."

"The captain was deemed to be worthy of honor."

Examples of incorrect uses of as:

The man in the yellow hat is named as Ted.
This phrase implies that some people are attempting to single out someone named Ted from amongst a crowd of people, and a man in a yellow hat has been singled out as possibly being the Ted that they're looking for.

– MrPersonHumanGuy (talk) 14:30, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I consider that you are being unnecessarily over-prescriptive, and give the appearance of being unfamiliar with the whole gamut of (at least British) English usage. Some usages of, e.g., "called as thieves" have become somewhat archaic, but are still understood by the fully literate; ". . . named as Ted" is acceptable current BrE; and all your "questionable usages" are, to my elderly BrE ear, also acceptable English, the beauty of which language is that the same thing can be said "correctly" in many different variations, often with subtly differing implications. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.1.209.45 (talk) 14:43, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There's no lexical reason that this is incorrect other than it not being conventional to some ears: the lexical value of called and the syntactic function of as agree well enough. Remsense ‥ 论 21:06, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

My personal opinions regarding the use of "as" could also stem from me being an American. In hindsight, my critiques would be no more valid than us being ridiculed for saying things like

This here /du:məhɪki:/ I done showed y'all way out yonder ain't doin' nothin' no more, so I'm fixin' to holler to the fellas that I reckon it done wonders for.

instead of

The device that I have shown you guys over there is no longer doing anything, so I'm about to talk to the fellows for whom I believe it has done wonders.

Flatland, Gulliver's Travels and Jesus's teaching about the speck in the eye came to mind as I was composing this. The beam in my case is a Grammar PD badge. – MrPersonHumanGuy (talk) 21:34, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is also entirely a function of our being brainwashed into the cult of the written word: speech is a flowing thing, so the ideology that "y'all" is somehow a deficient word and not what it obviously is—a more parsimonious way of saying "you all"—wouldn't as easily take hold because it's not spelled out as a different-looking sequence of discrete symbols. To a lesser degree, this holds to the use of linking words, which seem to flow more freely and are less prescriptively scrutinized when a written dimension is not considered: there's a lot of evidence that the concept of the "word" itself as a discrete unit of language requires the adoption of writing for a society to really introduce to their language.Remsense ‥ 论 21:37, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Language isn't logical. If it was, Americans would never say "off of" Instead of Just "Off", or "could care less". HiLo48 (talk) 23:48, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's logical sometimes, just not strictly the logic we think to impose on it. Remsense ‥ 论 23:49, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We do expect formal prescriptive English in professional writing, it's just that some of the supposed rules are imaginary (like the proscription against using passives by a style guide that doesn't know what a passive is). Check with the OED as to whether 'called as' means the same thing as 'called'. (In my variety it doesn't.)

I don't have access to the full OED right now; maybe someone else can look it up. In the Compact, New and Shorter OED, I see no indication that 'called as' is considered standard for 'named'. None of the examples they give of this meaning use 'as', and this goes back centuries ('God called the light, Day'; 'the woman I was taught to call mother'). Generally IMO it's best not to use words that add no meaning, especially when the meaning they normally add is a mismatch for what the writer is trying to say. — kwami (talk) 13:50, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Economic and Management Sciences

We shan't accidentally troll ourselves with literally unanswerable questions Remsense ‥ 论 10:52, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

what the Distribution of profits

What the Legal requirements

What the Capital Contribution

What the Responsibility of business debts

What the Continuity of the business

What the Set up and Start up of this form of ownership.

Do you think a sole proprietor will be a more suitable form of ownership for this business? Briefly motivate your answer.

@ 41.113.123.42 (talk) 17:51, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please see Wikipedia:Do your own homework. You will not learn properly if we feed you answers. Try using the Wikipedia search box at the top of every page (you may have to click a magnifying glass symbol to open it) to find articles on the terms in the questions, and read them. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.1.209.45 (talk) 18:16, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As cursing, phrases like "What the Capital Contribution!?..." and "What the Distribution of Profits!?..." have a nice ring to them, though. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 20:18, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The question makes no sense. What is Briefly motivate your answer supposed to mean? Shantavira|^{feed me} 10:39, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Re: Amphitryon

Can someone help me cleanup Amphitryon (disambiguation)? I'm not sure how to best add this info. I went looking for it, couldn't find it on the dab page, and only saw it buried in Amphitryon#Dramatic treatments and wanted to give it more visibility on the dab. I think it should also be copied to Wiktionary. Thank you. Viriditas (talk) 21:30, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, it looks like I fixed the Wiktionary entry. Somebody had added the wrong word to the dab page so the definition didn't show up. It's now there. However, I don't know how to best add the definition to the dab page like I did for visibility. Viriditas (talk) 21:33, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Here's the changes that I made:[1] Let me know if that's okay. Viriditas (talk) 21:35, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]