Language desk
< August 15	<< Jul \| August \| Sep >>	August 17 >

Welcome to the Wikipedia Language Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is a transcluded archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

August 16

Rod, line and sinker

At the conclusion of Operation Mincemeat, Churchill sent a message that said, "Mincemeat swallowed rod, line and sinker by the right people and from the best information they look like acting on it." Why didn't he say "hook, line, and sinker" instead? Viriditas (talk) 21:13, 16 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know for sure (and I doubt anyone does), but it seems not unlikely that, being 68, he occasionally misremembered words in stock phrases. I sometimes do the same, and I'm a year younger than he was then. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.1.109.53 (talk) 21:33, 16 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There was an unstated implication in the recent film version that Churchill hated fish/fishing and may have used the word incorrectly because he wasn't familiar with the sport, but I could just be imagining that. Viriditas (talk) 21:36, 16 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"A widely-read man never quotes accurately, for the rather obvious reason that he has read too widely." (Hesketh Pearson, Common Misquotations, 1934). (Naturally, I disagree. I'm widely read, and I make it a point of honour to quote accurately. Maybe I'm special. Yeees, that must be it.)-- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 21:55, 16 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe he was anticipating that ROD Taylor would portray him decades later, maybe he was trying to save expenses on the telegraph (three lettered "rod" v four-lettered "hook") ... rod, line and sinker does say it's an "alternative form" of hook, line and sinker), but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ---Sluzzelin talk 02:25, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Seems like it's not a common expression but not unheard of either. In Newspapers.com I found 7 occurrences of "swallowed rod line and sinker". The first was in Brooklyn in 1911. The second was in London in 1930. The third was in Brisbane in 1938. The other 4 were from 1996 and after, quoting Churchill. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 11:17, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I was doing the same exercise as Bugs, using my subscription to the British Newspaper Archive. About 9,000 instances of "hook line and sinker" are found, compared to six for "rod, line and sinker". Excluding literal uses of the phrase in fishing contexts, the phrase is seen in 1930 (two separate instances), 1936, 1938, 1950 and 1953 – all but one used in political contexts (the other was in a football report). Interestingly, in a 1923 newspaper a "two-part Snub Pollard fishing comedy Rod, Line and Sinker" is advertised at a Scottish cinema. It's not mentioned in the "Selected filmography" at Snub Pollard's article. Hassocks5489 (Floreat Hova!) 12:16, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Viriditas (talk) 19:13, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]