Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2019 January 17
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January 17[edit]
Chinese Name[edit]
Does anybody in China today have this as their personal name? The name in question is 清云. Also, it is common for personal names in China to be a combination of verb and noun? déhanchements (talk) 06:12, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
- See Sun Qingyun (living) and Li Ching-Yuen (older). — kwami (talk) 07:53, 21 January 2019 (UTC)
Boat vs. ship[edit]
What is the difference between a boat and a ship? Is it only a matter of size (with the distinction set arbitrarily), or is there another, more precise distinction? 2601:646:8A00:A0B3:0:0:0:ECBD (talk) 11:20, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
- See Ship#Nomenclature. Mikenorton (talk) 11:45, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
- So, one precise (but not universally accepted) definition based on behavior during turns, and a lot of vague ones. And I, too, have another definition in mind: per my proposed definition, a boat is small enough and simple enough that its captain can simultaneously also perform the duties of the helmsman, whereas a ship is too big and complicated for that and requires these two roles to be performed by different people. Any objections? 2601:646:8A00:A0B3:0:0:0:ECBD (talk) 01:52, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
- Where would you use that self-styled definition? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 03:56, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
- Not so much self-styled as based on my own observations of which vessels people tend to call "boats" and which ones they tend to call "ships". As for the US Navy definition (a boat heels toward the inside of a turn, a ship heels to the outside), that one runs into problems with vessels that use hydrodynamic lift: for example, almost identical hydrofoil designs could heel in different directions if one has surface-piercing foils and the other one fully-submerged foils; as for planing vessels, they might heel toward the inside of a turn while hull-down at low speed, but toward the outside while planing, so the exact same vessel would be considered a boat at low speed and a ship at maximum speed -- an absurd situation indeed (which could be the case with some hydrofoils as well)! 2601:646:8A00:A0B3:0:0:0:ECBD (talk) 06:03, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
- As long as you're not intending to apply your personal observations to Wikipedia articles, you're fine. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 07:49, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
- Not so much self-styled as based on my own observations of which vessels people tend to call "boats" and which ones they tend to call "ships". As for the US Navy definition (a boat heels toward the inside of a turn, a ship heels to the outside), that one runs into problems with vessels that use hydrodynamic lift: for example, almost identical hydrofoil designs could heel in different directions if one has surface-piercing foils and the other one fully-submerged foils; as for planing vessels, they might heel toward the inside of a turn while hull-down at low speed, but toward the outside while planing, so the exact same vessel would be considered a boat at low speed and a ship at maximum speed -- an absurd situation indeed (which could be the case with some hydrofoils as well)! 2601:646:8A00:A0B3:0:0:0:ECBD (talk) 06:03, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
- I'm reminded of Flip Wilson's retelling of the voyage of Columbus. As they approached land in the western hemisphere, the captain cried out, "Lower the longboat!" Wilson adds that the "longboat" was really a short boat on the side of the big boat. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 03:56, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
- The Love Boat was a fairly large cruise ship and some ore boats on the Great Lakes exceed 1000 ft in length. Definitions are not consistent. Rmhermen (talk) 04:27, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
- And submarine captains in the US Navy will insist that the craft they skipper is a boat, not a ship. I do like the definition in Ship#Nomenclature, in which the distinction between a boat and a ship depends on whether it leans to the outside or the inside of a turn. I'm pretty sure submarines heel to the outside during a turn on the surface, though, especially if the sub's diving planes are on the tower instead of the bow. With bow planes, a sub can bank in a turn on the surface or underwater. ~Anachronist (talk) 17:04, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
- Yes, in most cases this definition works -- but, as I pointed out, it breaks down for hydrofoils and (especially) planning vessels, because they can lean in different directions at low vs. high speed (and in the case of hydrofoils, it can also depend on the type of foils they have!) 2601:646:8A00:A0B3:C513:DCE6:D87B:6555 (talk) 03:05, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
- And submarine captains in the US Navy will insist that the craft they skipper is a boat, not a ship. I do like the definition in Ship#Nomenclature, in which the distinction between a boat and a ship depends on whether it leans to the outside or the inside of a turn. I'm pretty sure submarines heel to the outside during a turn on the surface, though, especially if the sub's diving planes are on the tower instead of the bow. With bow planes, a sub can bank in a turn on the surface or underwater. ~Anachronist (talk) 17:04, 22 January 2019 (UTC)