Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2012 May 26
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May 26
[edit]Lux Aurumque
[edit]Hello, I'm reviewing Lux Aurumque for DYK and apparently, as per eg here, this title can be rendered either as "Light and Gold" or "Light of Gold"; I iz reasonably learned in Latin and would have thought the latter would have a genitive somewhere - is this a legitimate translation, an alternative version, or what is the correct grammatical/rhetorical term for these two nominatives functioning in this way? Any obvious parallels? Thanks, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 00:59, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- Since the article says Lux Aurumque is named after this poem, it seems we should probably simply get rid of "Light of Gold."
- However, there is a rhetorical figure precisely as you describe, and its correct name is hendiadys. Wareh (talk) 01:46, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- Thank you, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 02:39, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- As I understand it, the -que suffix means "and". I remember that one from SPQR! 86.181.172.218 (talk) 03:19, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- It does mean "and". If it is a hendiadys, it still wouldn't be a genitive, it would be either "light and gold" or "golden light". Adam Bishop (talk) 06:26, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- No question that the Latin means "Light and Gold", as was the title of the original English poem, but the other (wrong) translation is also around, example, how could that be worded? For the moment I will just drop it, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:50, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- Adam's suggestion seems to me to have the answer: "light of gold" is another way of saying "golden light", which as Adam suggests is a possible interpretation of the phrase as a hendiadys. --ColinFine (talk) 10:14, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
Is this phrase grammatically correct?
[edit]I encountered the phrase "during early planning stage". For example: "during early planning stage, our company was in dire straits". Is the "during early planning stage" grammatically correct? It sounds weird to me. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 05:20, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- No. It should read "during the early planning stage". Clarityfiend (talk) 07:22, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- It sounds like business jargon. It might be acceptable in an email, but "the early planning stage" is correct in formal writing. Itsmejudith (talk) 08:05, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- ...unless there were several early planning stages, in which case it should be "an early planning stage". "The" and "an" are articles; see article (grammar). The writer may be of Asian origin; missing articles are typical of Engrish.--Shantavira|feed me 09:01, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- ... or he may be Slavic. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ [your turn] 09:56, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- True, but illiteracy is very common in the business world nowadays, seemingly even for native speakers. I think they've decided to optimise the English language for maximum throughput, IBE (talk) 15:51, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- ... or he may be Slavic. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ [your turn] 09:56, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- They are their own worst enemies when it comes to the truly ridiculous corporate-speak they all feel they must employ ("low-hanging fruit", "green fields", "blue skies" ...). But that's just a manifestation of the special jargon that applies in any profession or industry. The real problem goes a lot deeper than that. The education systems some of these people have come through are rotten to the core, and I include my own country in this. A quote from last week's news:
- There are fewer and fewer people coming into the [teaching] profession who can proofread [student work] accurately … They can't recognise the errors because their own writing is littered with grammatical errors of syntax and of verb tense. … A significant number of younger teachers have very limited written English and reading skills. If these people don't understand language well, how can they teach it well? -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ [your turn] 21:22, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
- They are their own worst enemies when it comes to the truly ridiculous corporate-speak they all feel they must employ ("low-hanging fruit", "green fields", "blue skies" ...). But that's just a manifestation of the special jargon that applies in any profession or industry. The real problem goes a lot deeper than that. The education systems some of these people have come through are rotten to the core, and I include my own country in this. A quote from last week's news:
Irrelevant ramblings
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- It sounds fine to me (Midwest American), if a bit unexpected. Compare "during class" or "during Doctor Who." Not sure what category of noun this is that allows this (unless class is a proper noun in this case?). Lsfreak (talk) 01:51, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
- I would agree that the original question could be correct, although it would be better with "the" inserted. If the organization has several elements to its development process, one of which is called "Early Planning Stage", it would be acceptable to say something along the lines of "During Early Planning Stage, the company was in dire financial straits, but at Preliminary Design Review, the situation had improved sufficiently for the project to continue." Tevildo (talk) 09:09, 27 May 2012 (UTC)