Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2009 May 25
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May 25
[edit]French translation needed
[edit]![](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ef/Cafe_Procope_plaque.jpg/220px-Cafe_Procope_plaque.jpg)
Does this plaque say something to the effect that Cafe Procope (Le Procope) was the world's first cafe or the world's oldest continually functioning cafe? --Doug Coldwell talk 11:36, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
- translation available here:http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Cafe_Procope_plaque.jpg#Summary Alberto Fernandez Fernandez (talk) 12:29, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks. --Doug Coldwell talk 12:35, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
Old/Middle English meaning of Chel
[edit]What does the "chel" in "Chelsea" mean?
I've heard lots of name definitions for "Chelsea", like "sea port", "chalk landing place", and "limestone (cliffs) by the sea". I understand the port/ocean connection ("sea"), but "chel" no longer holds any meaning in English. Was it a word in Old or Middle English? What did it mean? It has the same initial sound as "chalk", which would tie into the "chalk landing place" name origin. But I can't find "chel" in any Middle or Old English dictionaries...
I did find some possibilities, but I don't know if any fit.
In Old English
- "Cele"/"Ceole"/"Céo"/"Céole" can mean "the beak/keel of a ship"
- "Ceolas" or "Ciele" can mean means "cold winds" or "cold"/"chill"
In Middle English
- "Chelle"/"Chele" can mean "the bow of a ship"
- "Chele" can mean "cold"/"chill"
- "Chele" can mean "a bowl", "incense vessel" or "drinking cup"
Which is it? Or is it something else?
71.174.26.231 (talk) 14:51, 25 May 2009 (UTC)Olivia
- See paragraph 2 at http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Chelsea,_England. -- Wavelength (talk) 15:23, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
- See the first paragraph of Chelsea, London#History. -- Wavelength (talk) 15:28, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
- Adrian Room, in Placenames of the World: Origins and Meanings, agrees with the etymology given in the WP article cited by Wavelength above. To clarify, I meant that he agrees with the derivation from cealc and hyð, not with Norden's suggestion. Deor (talk) 15:41, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
- Apparently, the supposed element sea involves false etymology. -- Wavelength (talk) 16:25, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
- and often represents either OE 'ea' (stream) or 'ey' from Norse word meaning 'island' --ColinFine (talk) 17:20, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
Now if I could only understand why Elvis Costello didn't want to go to Chelsea... -- AnonMoos (talk) 17:52, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
- Perhaps it's because he supports Liverpool :) Grutness...wha? 01:40, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
- but dee doo, doh, don't dee, doh? --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 20:01, 27 May 2009 (UTC)