Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2012 January 30

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January 30

Looking for the wording and source of a Jewish quote/adage/saying

I attended a Bat Mitzvah this weekend for a family friend (first time in a synagogue). Lots of fairly long readings in Hebrew that were incomprehensible to a WASP like me, so I spent some time thumbing through the prayerbook, which was in both English and Hebrew. I ran across a quote that I really liked, and told myself I'd look it up when I got home, but I'm old and my mind is feeble and I've forgotten essentially all of the details.

The gist of the quote was that a society cannot function if every one of it's rules and regulations is followed rigidly, without flexibility or compassion.

I've googled a few word combinations and come up with nothing. Does this ring any bells for anyone? I'd love a pointer to the exact quote and the ultimate source. --Floquenbeam (talk) 01:08, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

I did look through the Shabbat morning service and found nothing. On re-reading I see you were wandering though the services in the prayer book. I will look again. I do recall vaguely similar things, but not exactly; so I shall look. Jewish prayer books can differ considerably, so no guarantees, I fear.--Wehwalt (talk) 08:13, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

It sounds vaguely like the kind of thing you might find in Ethics of the Fathers, part of the Saturday afternoon service i more traditional/orthodox synagogues, but I couldn't pin it down. Jewish prayer books commonly include prayers for a wide variety of occasions. This does mean that, in addition to Wehwalt's comment, it's hard for us to pin us down. It might help a little if we understood which type of synagogue it was (eg reconstructionist, reform/liberal, conservative/Masorti, traditional, modern orthodox, orthodox) and which country you were in? See Judaism#Jewish_religious_movements --Dweller (talk) 10:52, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, it makes sense that would be useful info. It was definitely a Reform Jewish congregation, and I'm in in the U.S. Also, although I was at a morning service, it could have been anywhere in the prayerbook, I was browsing. Thanks for the interest, I know it might be a long shot. --Floquenbeam (talk) 11:14, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

It reminded me of the congregational response after Unetaneh Tokef, but that's not quite it. There's definitely a High Holiday feel to it to my mind, I need to look through a more concise machzor, rather than my father's ancient volume of Adler. You might want to check this just in case. I also need to look at Ecclesiates.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:34, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm starting to think it may not have been so much a Torah or Talmudic quote (please forgive misuse of terminology if it exists), but a quote of a rabbi/philosopher/sociologist that was part of the "discussion" section (for lack of a better word) underneath each portion of the prayers. I'd hate for you to spend too much time looking through "volumes" of old Jewish texts if it's not really part of a Jewish prayer after all, but a secular adage quoted in one version out of hundreds of different prayer books out there. God, I wish my memory didn't suck. --Floquenbeam (talk) 14:03, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

There is a prayer for the government in most prayer books, and I'm suspecting that it's commentary on that. The government doesn't get a heck of a lot of mention in prayer books for various unpleasant reasons (little affection on both sides when most Jewish prayers were composed), but we do throw in a prayer for it after the Torah reading. You might want to ask on the talk page of one of the active people at Talk: Reform Judaism.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:34, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Wouldn't it be easier to drop by that synagogue and check the original text? Otherwise, try to search for the origin of flexibility in Jewish law or google "A tree of life" of Louis Jacobs. 88.26.74.157 (talk) 14:50, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

We traveled a bit of a distance to go to the Bat Mitzvah; but I'll try to call the synagogue and ask for the title of the prayerbook they use. When I first asked the question, I thought perhaps this was a well known adage that someone would just know. Thanks for the useful pointers, too, I'll pursue them when I have a chance (this ridiculous job I have insists I stop playing on Wikipedia now and actually do some productive work during the day). --Floquenbeam (talk) 15:08, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Obviously, they do not value your contributions to Wikipedia enough! But I would first check the synagogue's website, it is very likely to mention what prayer book they use, there are people who consider that important and it may also be there in the context of children's religious education. And if you call (understandably, you don't want to, I would not want to call a church to enquire about part of the service), I would do it on Tuesday; many Jewish clergy get today off because of their weekend commitments. I know you are not going to call and ask to speak with one; all the same it would be good to have in house!--Wehwalt (talk) 15:26, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Actually, I just emailed the rabbi that led the service. Perhaps he lives for this kind of question. And if not, maybe he'll have someone email me the name of the prayerbook. --Floquenbeam (talk) 15:31, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

They are generally helpful when approached in their professional capacity, though I could tell you stories!--Wehwalt (talk) 18:35, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

The Reform Jewish prayer book Gates of Prayer includes inspiring and thoughtful excerpts from Talmud, Maimonides, Chasidic stories, etc. in the front or back if I am not mistaken. Any Reform synagogue should have a copy you could look at. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 03:19, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

This quote sounds like it's about the desecration of shabbat. I'm still looking. Viriditas (talk) 01:45, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

• FWIW, I heard back from the rabbi of that synagogue, and their prayerbook is called "Mishkan T’filah" and is printed by CCAR Press. Not sure if this helps or not. --Floquenbeam (talk) 20:36, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Was Galois Welsh?

The French word for Welsh is gallois. I wonder whether the mathematician Évariste Galois had roots in Wales.

Quelle est l'origine du nom de famille d'Évariste Galois? Avait-il d'aïeux gallois?

PaulTanenbaum (talk) 02:05, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

--Jessica A Bruno 03:37, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

I believe the French word "gallois" is equivelent to the English "Celtic". Hence "Astérix le Gaulois" - a cartoon character supposedly who was from Gaul ie pre-Roman France. The French name for Wales is "Pay de Galles" which could be translated as "Land of the Celts". I'll try to find a reliable source. Alansplodge (talk) 09:01, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Both Welsh and Gaul are from a Germanic word meaning "foreign" or "Roman". Other examples are Wallonie and Wallachia. That Gaul looks like Gallia is a coincidence. (Gaulois is from stem gual- (=wal-) + Latin -ensis; cf. guard- from ward-, guerre from werra etc.) Gal(l)ois looks like a collateral form. The g in Gallia would regularly have become j in French (as in jaune from galbinus, joie from gaudia).

Edit: But to answer your question (which I misread on this Monday morning): yes, that seems quite possible. Iblardi (talk) 09:17, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Antipodean perspective: is Robert French CJ French? Is Heath Scotland a Scot? Is Hazem El Masri from Egypt? In Western culture, Demonyms as surnames would seem to me something long since past indicative of that person's background. --Shirt58 (talk) 12:00, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Well, obviously Galois was born near Paris, but the question was whether his surname indicated Welsh ancestry, not whether he was Welsh himself. Iblardi (talk) 12:13, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

It's possible; many notable French people have backgrounds and surnames from other European counties, c.f. former President Patrice de Mac-Mahon has a name that belies let's us know about his Irish ancestry, Cardinal Mazarin was Neopolitan Italian, and Napoleon was a Corsican (Italian) name as well. The current president has a Hungarian name. It would not be shocking to have a Frenchman with a last name indicating he was from Wales. France has long granted Citizenship (and thus "Frenchness") by Jus soli, thus being French just means one is born subject to the French state. --Jayron32 14:21, 30 January 2012 (UTC)Edit: Corrected per below. --Jayron32 00:21, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Oof. It doesn't belie his Irish ancestry. If he has Irish ancestry, it "reveals" it (perhaps "betrays" it, if Irish ancestry is something he would want to conceal for some reason). If he doesn't have Irish ancestry, then maybe it "dissimulates" it or something. The only way it could "belie" his Irish ancestry is if for some reason a true Irishman couldn't have the surname Mac-Mahon. --Trovatore (talk) 21:07, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

So corrected. Thank you for your help. --Jayron32 00:21, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Once you see correlations between French words that begin with g- and English that begin with w- you can easily see the connection between Galles and Wales. Consider other such pairs: guerre and war, Guillaume and William, etc. --Jayron32 14:16, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

It's possible his family had roots in Brittany, which was of course settled by Celtic refugees from Britain following the Roman withdrawal and early Saxon invasions, and which maintained some cultural links with what came to be Wales. The French Wikipedia might be a better venue to find out whether the surname Galois might have such a background. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.197.66.38 (talk) 16:01, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

I can't find any history of the name in the French Wikipedia (though Jayron's point is confirmed there), but perhaps someone more fluent in French could take a look to check if I've missed something. Dbfirs 16:26, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

This map shows the distribution of people with the surname "Galois" between 1891 and 1915. Most seem to be in north and central France, with the highest result in the Nord department. Alansplodge (talk) 17:00, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

This page gives the etymology of the surname Galois, (also Gallais or Galais). Translation - shared between me and Babel Fish: "A name found in the west, especially in Brittany, on which the opinions are divided. A. Dauzat has it originating in Wales. Deshayes (in the Dictionary of Breton Family Names) thinks for his part, that an alternative of Wales is a nickname given to a man of large size. M.T. Morlet leans towards another assumption, bringing Galais closer to "Welshman", a nickname given to a jovial fellow (a meaning of the adjective "Welsh" in old French). It is this last solution which I prefer by far, because the patronyms Galais and Gallais cover a geographical space much vaster than that of only Breton-speaking Brittany." So there you are; he might have had an ancestor who was Welsh, very large or very jolly (or maybe all three!). Whatever, it was a very long time ago, because surnames became compulsory in France in 1539[1]. One would have thought that a Welshman arriving much later than that would have kept his Welsh surname (Jones, Evans etc etc). Alansplodge (talk) 17:13, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Pros and cons of each type personal finance accounts

Whats the pros and cons of having a checking, savings, money market, credit union, etc accounts?

As for me might be switching from my current account (checking and savings combination) to something else. Which I still have to go the bank (properly will be mon) and most likely going to remain there, but with a different service. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mybodymyself (talk • contribs) 03:38, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

We cannot offer financial advice. Please see the general disclaimer. Contact a financial adviser. RudolfRed (talk) 04:07, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Indeed. Go to the bank and ask them about the pros and cons of each of their services. They likely have a bank manager who would be happy to discuss their options to you. They're a business like any other and will be happy to discuss this with you. Dismas|^(talk) 04:22, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

But don't trust them to tell you about credit unions, ask a credit union instead. StuRat (talk) 04:59, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

This is so basic a question that it hardly constitutes financial advice. The type of account depends on when you need access to the money. A checking (or current) account gives access instantly; a savings account with a specific tenure, say a 90-day certificate of deposit, is designed to pay higher interest in exchange for leaving the money on deposit for a longer period. You may – depending on the terms – be able to get the money back earlier than 90 days, but with a loss of interest. More sophisticated accounts that allow automatic transfers between, say a savings account and a checking account, may require higher minimum deposit rates. A credit union offers similar services, but generally only to members.DOR (HK) (talk) 07:53, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

We have articles! For checking account see Transactional account (they're known as checking accounts in the USA, current accounts in the UK, etc). There's also Savings account, Money market account, and as already mentioned Credit union. As well as differences in interest rates and time to access your money, transactional accounts typically come with checks/cheques and/or debit cards, and may include automatic overdraft facilities that allow you to borrow small amounts of money (in contrast, savings accounts can't normally become overdrawn). But transactional accounts will pay little or no interest, and depending where you live and who you bank with they may have monthly fees. --Colapeninsula (talk) 10:46, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

--Jessica A Bruno 17:24, 30 January 2012 (UTC) Thank you for all of your answers to my question here. This really applied to the general situation as opposed to my own. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mybodymyself (talk • contribs) 17:24, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Copyright in UK

What are the copyright rules in UK whereby Alpha puts a copyright notice on a recent photograph on his website and Beta newspapers publishes it? Kittybrewster ☎ 06:18, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia doesn't give legal advice. But I'm sure you know that already... AndyTheGrump (talk) 06:28, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Indeed. Kittybrewster ☎ 06:53, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

This is not a request for legal advice, but for legal information. A big difference. --Viennese Waltz 08:35, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

This is not legal advice, but just a comment that some newspapers seem to do whatever they like, and think about the legal consequences later, probably assuming that most people will not have sufficient funds to take them to court. Dbfirs 07:53, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

And if they were to be sued there is no guarantee that the damages would cover the legal costs. Kittybrewster ☎ 09:01, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

As Rhythmix Music recently found in the UK, copyrighting and trademarking anything does not prevent other people using it. It merely gives you the right to take legal action to protect your prior use. --TammyMoet (talk) 10:15, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Well, in terms of general legal information not applicable to any particular situation (consult a lawyer if you want that), the articles on copyright and copyright law in the United Kingdom are helpful. The text of the Copyright, Designs, and Patents Act 1988 is available online. Legislation is mostly pretty straightforward and easy to read, but don't assume that you understand everything in it; lawyers are trained professionals for a reason. In general, permission must be sought from the holder of copyright to re-publish copyrighted work; in UK law, there are several exceptions to this. Without further detail it would be impossible to comment on the situation you describe, and with further detail it would still be impossible because Wikipedia is not a place to obtain legal advice. --superioridad ^(discusión) 02:04, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Executive Orders / Large denomination currency

In reading Large denominations of United States currency I felt compelled to try and determine which executive order Richard Nixon issued that mandated the recall/ceased circulation of large denomination Federal Reserve notes. I found a site on archive.gov which seemed like a browsable/searchable archive of executive orders, but couldn't find anything (with a title anyways) that suggested it would be about this topic. I did not find any actual executive order text either (which seems odd for a site claiming to be an archive..).

So my question(s) are:

1. Is there a full text archive of executive orders that is searchable/viewable online?
2. Does anyone know the exact executive order Nixon made that dealt with the more specific issue of recalling/discontinuing large denomination United States currency?

Thanks! —Locke Cole • t • c 08:13, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

I know it was in 1969. I looked for 1969 executive orders much as you did in connection with Murray Chotiner, I only found them in print. I do not know if Nixon's action was accomplished by executive order or some other means. The executive orders, as I recall, were in the Public Papers of the Presidents series.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:22, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

The Federal Reserve is an independent agency, not part of the executive branch, so the president cannot issue an executive order to it. Looie496 (talk) 18:17, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

He could order the Treasury Department not to print any more large denomination currency, and to destroy existing stock.--Wehwalt (talk) 18:30, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks Wehwalt, I'll look for that. =) —Locke Cole • t • c 23:51, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Is Transnistria communist?

The flag and emblem of the partially-unrecognized state of the Pridnestrovian Moldovan Republic, more commonly known as Transnistria, has the Hammer and sickle on its flag and emblem, but is it (still) a communist country? The article makes no mention of it, although it is likely, considering it was part of the former Soviet Union. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 10:04, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

It doesn't seem like it. From the article: "PMR has a multi-party system and a unicameral parliament named the Supreme Council. Its legislature has 43 members elected by Single-member district plurality.[57] The president is elected to a five year term by popular vote." The governing party Renewal is described as "pro-business" (whatever that means), and the economy of Transnistria is mixed. As far as I am aware of all the countries formerly part of the Soviet Union and the Warzaw Pact only Belarus has retained what can be described as a Soviet Union-style government system. --Saddhiyama (talk) 10:19, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

The president is Yevgeny Shevchuk who considers himself a social democrat. Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 10:20, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

If so, then why would they continue to have a communist symbol, no the communist symbol on their flag and emblem? All the other former communist countries erased most of the communist symbolism on their national symbols. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 10:26, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Have you read Flag of Transnistria? It appears to be connected with the complex mix of nationalities and nationalisms in the region - Transnistrians generally opposed Moldovan independence and want to be more closely associated with Russia, hence having a flag that relates to the days when Transnistria was part of the Russian-dominated USSR. --Colapeninsula (talk) 10:53, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

As regards "the former communist countries erased the communist symbols", have you looked at an Aeroflot aircraft lately? The flags of Vladimir and Bryansk? 78.149.252.90 (talk) 17:00, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Percentage of HIV-positive people among homosexuals

What is the % of HIV-positive people among homosexuals and among heterosexuals in the US and Canada? --Broadside Perceptor (talk) 13:45, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

What about homosexual and heterosexual men in Africa? 188.6.79.116 (talk) 13:55, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

See HIV/AIDS in Canada, HIV/AIDS in the United States and AIDS pandemic.-- Obsidi♠n Soul 14:12, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Please note that the rate is very low among homosexual women (lesbians). Please also note that not all of humanity fits into one of the two categories you offer - the world contains people who are bisexual for example, and even asexual. See the Kinsey scale. BrainyBabe (talk) 16:49, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Scissors and Superglue

I reember when I was younger a story about this girl who's been left on her own for the day. She's greeted at the door by one salesperson who I think sells her a giant pair of scissors or shears which wrecks the furniture. Either the same or another salesman comes by later and she is able to purchase some super glue to fix everything. Does anyone know which story this was? Simply south...... having large explosions for 5 years 15:58, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

I can't say I've ever heard of it, but it does sound like a variation on the theme of The Cat in the Hat. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:36, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Oooo, I know the story. Was that the same story in which she was terribly naughty and her parents can't work out how to stop her, and then this happens? I forget. Part of me wonders if it was in one of the collections like "Naughty Stories" and "Naughtier Stories" which came out in the 90s. Another part of me half-wonders if it was one of Enid Blyton's short stories. I shall have to have a look for my copies. 86.166.41.126 (talk) 20:46, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

It's not in "Naughty Stories", but it's very much that sort of thing. I can't find my copy of "Even Naughtier Stories", and nowhere seems to want to give me a contents list for that book, so I cannot say whether it is in there or not. Also, all my relevant Enid Blyton books seem to have gone walkabout. Who would have possibly borrowed Naughty Amelia Jane and similar? 86.166.41.126 (talk) 21:09, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

French universities alumni muslim leaders

Which Muslim leaders of the Francophonie nations Senegal, Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria, Lebanon, Syria, Comoros, Djibouti, Niger, Mali, Chad, Mauritania, Guinea and Burkina Faso are alumnae of which universities in France? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.95.104.175 (talk) 16:06, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Abdoulaye Wade, President of Senegal, studied at the Université de Grenoble and the Université de Franche-Comté, Besançon[2][3][4]. You should be able to answer most of this yourself: look at the WP page for each of the countries, e.g. Morocco, and it'll tell you the heads of state and/or government, generally in the box at the top right of the page. Then click on the names and they'll take you to e.g. Mohammed VI of Morocco and you'll find he studied in Morocco, so you don't want him. Not all articles carry this information, so you may have to look on French Wikipedia, e.g. [5] and if necessary use Google translate, or Google the name (consider adding any missing information to the relevant Wikipedia article). If you repeat this process for every nation, you will find the answer to your question. If there's genuinely someone you can't find info about, ask here and someone might be able to help, but don't expect us to do work you could do yourself. --Colapeninsula (talk) 17:20, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Actually, Mohammed VI's article mentions he obtained his PhD from the University of Nice Sophia Antipolis. --Xuxl (talk) 10:11, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

The question is a bit odd. What you ask for are presidents (Prime Ministers?) of Muslim-majority countries? These are not necessarily 'Muslim leaders' as such. Syria is by no means a clear-cut part of the Francophonie community. And the president there isn't a Muslim. In Francophone West Africa many politicians studied in France, such as the Guinean president Conde. However, military leaders (such as presidents having seized power in coups) are an exeption. The Burkina Faso president is a Roman Catholic who has not studied in France. --Soman (talk) 17:30, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Current event: Woman in Bebee, AR who fished $1M winning scratch ticket out of trash bin

When's the next court date in the case of Sharon Jones (the woman who pulled the ticket from the trash & claimed the winnings) vs. Lisa Petriches (the store owner who claims there was a sign saying 'do not take' on the trash bin at the time the ticket was taken)? That's the only objective question I care to have answered or spoken about. What's the next court date? 20.137.18.53 (talk) 17:25, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

This link at ABC News says the next court date has not been set. RudolfRed (talk) 03:28, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Novels with Character Legend/Key

Resolved

 – – Kerαunoςcopia^◁_galaxies 17:50, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

I can't remember what this is called, and there is a Wiki article on it somewhere (though not listed in literary technique—and perhaps it's not a technique?): A novel opens up with a legend, or a list, of characters who each represent a real-life person. I thought it was called something like ________ clé or something similar, but I've actually been struggling to find it for a while now. Also, should it be added to the list of literary techniques in the aforementioned article? (Perhaps it already is and I missed it!) Thanks – Kerαunoςcopia^◁_galaxies 17:33, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Dramatis personæ. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 17:36, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Roman à clef -- AnonMoos (talk) 17:37, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Roman à clef was what I was looking for. Thanks! – Kerαunoςcopia^◁_galaxies 17:50, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

It should be noted that most "key novels" doesn't contain a list of characters containing the key to which real persons the fictional characters represents. Some literary historians may construct such lists later on, but most authors in this genre certainly doesn't make it so easy for the reader to identify the characters. --Saddhiyama (talk) 21:04, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Interesting, thank you. I was kind of wondering about that, in a vague way: like, what would be the point in making it so easy or obvious for the reader? – Kerαunoςcopia^◁_galaxies 18:16, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

What are “autonomous sketches?” re: Hieronymous Bosch article

The article on Hieronymous Bosch contains the term, “autonomous sketches,” which i don’t remember hearing in the many art history classes that I took years ago. Perhaps it came into use after I graduated. Googling gave me a few other examples of its usage, in context, but nothing that explains its meaning. I do know the general definition of autonomous, of course, but this term has me stumped.

It seems to me that if a person who’s aced as many art history classes as I have doesn’t know the term, then it needs to be defined within in the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Got.Book.Learnin (talk • contribs) 17:52, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Could it be a bad translation of the idea of "self-portait"? There's a possibility that the en.wikipedia article contains some text which was machine translated from another source, Google Translate often produces weird results like that... --Jayron32 17:54, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

An autonomous sketch is a sketch that is not created with the purpose of preparing for a larger work (it stands alone, or is autonomous). For more, see this. Regards, Orange Suede Sofa (talk) 18:34, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Well found! (I had a quick search and didn't find an explanation.) "Autonomous" doesn't sound quite right in this context, but I cant think of a better adjective (other than the hyphenated "stand-alone").

Who painted this picture?

I have seen this painting of Jesus with the Crown of Thorns quite a few times but I haven't been able to discover who the painter was. Can anyone help? Thank you.--Britannicus (talk) 19:56, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

The Baroque original

They are more modern variations of Guido Reni's Ecce Homo. ---Sluzzelin talk 01:02, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Thank you very much :)--Britannicus (talk) 17:25, 31 January 2012 (UTC)