Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2006 September 28

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What if???

What would happen if the Queen of England should die (may that day be far away)? Who would suceed the throne? And, above all, if it is a man, what would happen with the English national anthem? Would it be changed to "God Save the King"? If any knowledgable person, (or Brit), should know the answer to my questions, please, for charity's sake, help a poor, lost, and utterly ignorant American. (Even so, I'd rather be American than British :-)  ! | AndonicO 00:01, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

The articles on Queen Elizabeth and British royalty should answer the first part of the question. With you being a registered user, I'm surprised that you didn't first check the article on the current Queen to see her infobox where it says who the heir to the throne will be. I have no idea about the national anthem. Dismas|^(talk) 00:11, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

The anthem changes according to the sex of the monarch. When George VI, the present Queen's father, was alive it was 'God Save the King'. The alteration is simple enough. White Guard 00:20, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

But "God save the king" doesn't rhyme too well with "..it's a fascist regime". 惑乱 分からん 01:10, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

It improves the rhyme with "...(s)he ain't no human being", though. And given Mr. Rotten's, shall we say, unique diction, he'd make it rhyme. As well as any of the song rhymes. --ByeByeBaby 06:26, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Oh well; well just have to stop being Fascists. White Guard 01:17, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

AndonicO, you might have been reading breathless media speculation (which has been going on for decades - those people really need to inhale) that the throne could pass directly to Prince William, rather than to his father Prince Charles. That would only happen if Charles died before his mother the Queen did. Unfortunately for those who peddle such stuff, there's no law that says an heir gets displaced just because some people don't like him/her. JackofOz 02:33, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

The suggestion has been made on a few occasions that Charles might step aside and let William be king on the Queen's death. Very unlikely, but it's a possibility. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 05:19, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Again, this suggestion betrays the public (or, I suppose, the media)'s ignorance: he couldn't simply "step aside" — the throne doesn't require the consent of the heir to pass to him. He'd become King the instant the Queen died, and would have to abdicate formally, which would require an Act of Parliament. And even then he'd still have been King, even if only for a relatively short time. Proteus (Talk) 07:59, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Indeed. I think it was Terry Pratchett who postulated the existence of elementary particles called "kingons" or "queenons" which automatically travel from the monarch to the heir on death :). Inheritance is like that, there was an aristocrat - Lord Stamp, chairman of the London Midland and Scottish Railway - who was killed in an air raid in the second world war together with his son and heir; the courts ruled that the father had died an instant before the son, and therefore the Treasury collected two lots of death duties (inheritance taxes) from the family! -- Arwel (talk) 12:56, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

That album is well known for rhyming anarchist and antichrist, one more atrocious rhyme would not go amiss. MeltBanana 02:28, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for the information, and I'll look harder next time for my question before asking. | AndonicO 09:40, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

And yes, titles of other things in Britain - like, for example, Queen's Counsel, change according to the Monarch's gender. One of the things that doesn't - conveniently - is the abbreviation HRH. It doesn't matter whether it's His or Her Royal Highness. Same abbreviation still goes! Strictly speaking, the Monarch actually needs to ask to abdicate, but parliament would never refuse. That's as useless as a North Korean Human Rights Act. 82.152.197.131 19:07, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Point of order here. First, the king or queen is not HRH, that is for lesser royals. The sovereign is His or Her Majesty ie. HM Queen Elizabeth. Secondly, the British National Anthem is not God Save The Queen (failing whom, King). It is God Save our Gracious Queen (failing whom, King).

Agree with the first bit. No to the second bit. The opening line is "God save our gracious Queen", but the title of the song is "God Save the Queen". JackofOz 09:11, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

forklift drivers ed

I want to learn to drive a forklift,get the license etc. that they need to have these days. But I can not find any training outfits that will work with a unemployed person. I.E. You allready have to have a job that the employers will arange for in house training. There used to be training in the local Jr. college here in the Dallas Texas area but they gave in up. Thanks

The company that I used to work for trained me, though I already had a different job with the company when I bid on the forklift driver job. So, will the companies that you're applying to not even consider you without being first trained? Seems like an obvious Catch 22 for the company. Dismas|^(talk) 01:31, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

my previous employer refused to train me because I was on the night shift and the trainers refused to work nights, so I was left out on training. Now I am unemployed and I can not get trained to be employed.

Crossover of political ideologies

I was reading part of wikipedia's extensive series on political ideologies when an idea struck me. Most people would agree that Communism is more left then Socialism. But Libertarian socialism seems to be more left the Christian communism. How can that be? The only answer I can think of is that Communism isn't a political ideology in itself.

Both "communism" and "socialism" are words that have a whole scala of meanings, and what is more left than what is open to debate, for lack of a good definition of "left". The original meaning of "communism" was to describe a form of socio-economical organization with common ownership of the means of production, not necessarily applied to a whole society but usually to a commune, many of which had an idealistic religious basis. As such it is essentially originally a descriptive term, just like hunter-gatherer society and capitalism, or post-industrial society. Socialism, on the other hand, originally was a political philosophy and movement. Marx considered himself a socialist, part of a larger socialist movement, who aspired to achieve communism as the economic form defining society. In his definition that also included the "withering away" of the nation state. Engels also used the term "socialism" for a kind of halfway communism. Largely, however, the terms were used interchangeably at the time, and represented a wide spectrum of doctrines and visions, from rather radical to quite moderate, and many religiously inspired. This changed when the Bolshevik faction of the Russian Social-Democratic Labour Party, after the October Revolution, changed its name to Russian Communist Party (Bolsheviks). The term "communism" came to refer primarily to the socio-economico-political system of the Soviet Union, and internationally to a political ideology of subservient orientation on the Soviet Union. However, not all movements that traditionally used to call themselves "communist" ceased to do so. You mentioned Christian communism. Anarcho-communists saw the developments in the Soviet Union with horror (the lack of love was mutual) but kept their name. Many people (and particularly anarcho-communists themselves) would agree that this movement was at the far left of the socialist spectrum and definitely to the left of Soviet-oriented communism. Then there is Left communism and Council communism, and countless parties with "Communist" in their names, all sharing the conviction that the use of the term "communism" for anything having to do with the self-serving nomenklatura of the Soviet Union was a form of Newspeak.

I do not agree that Libertarian socialism is more left than Christian communism, or, in any case, most forms of the latter are more radical than most forms of the former. But as a movement, Christian communism tends to be less political than Libertarian socialism, less operating from an aspiration that all of society be organized a certain way.  --Lambiam^Talk 03:05, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

With the totalitarian control of State Socialism (what they had in the USSR and which is often referred to as communism), one could argue that it is actually rightwing. Like Lambian said, the terminology is either rather vague or has become vague by misuse. One could also say that pure communism (do what you can, take no more than what you need), is based on the goodness of the people and therefore makes politics obsolete and is thus not a political ideology. Btw, when reading about communism in the English Wikipedia, be aware that it is written mostly by US citizens and other westerners and therefore heavily biased. I tried giving input but that got reverted so often that I gave up. And I won't be the only one. Wikipedia is quite reliable when it comes to technology and teh hard sciences, but the social sciences are largely either under- or mis-represented. DirkvdM 09:39, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

There is a much simpler explanation. Political philosophies are not beads on a string, where the position of every bead can be designated in a 1 dimensional array. It is your mental model that is defective. alteripse 15:07, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

International Relations/Diplomacy from Sept. 2001 - May 2003

Hello, I am looking for some specific information and I wondered if anyone here could point me in the direction of a site/link/articles etc. with this specific information: I am interested in knowing in terms of presidents/prime ministers/etc. about who said what to whom and when and where they (or important representatives of them such as Foreign Ministers etc.) met up for the period from the 9/11 terrorist attacks up to the fall of Baghdad April 2003, if possible in chronological order, ie: ALL the international diplomacy taking place in this period. I have read 100s of pages (and wiki-articles) so far (incl. UN resolutions too) but am not really getting the info I need, if there were something specific, that would be great. I am particularly interested in 1) meetings/conferences with participants, and 2) press releases with official & unofficial/hear-say statements from as many governments as possible, 3) international diplomacy chronological timelines both multi- and bilateral (apart from the UN). Thank you very much. ==ALang==

That's an awful lot of information you want to know. My recommendation would be that you find a good library with newspaper and magine archives, and spend a couple of weeks perusing those. Several better newspapers let you consult their archived articles online against payment of money, but that does not seem a reasonable option here – unless you have unlimited resources, in which case you're better off hiring some historians to do the research for you. If you have a more specific request, we might be able to give a more specific pointer.  --Lambiam^Talk 03:23, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I´ve combed through archives of cnn.com & wikipedia & many news/political sites (and many weeks) but I only get a fraction of the info, I want to research myself and have limited (regular worker) resources, also only online in internet if possible. I would need to know the detailed movements and – more importantly - statements of country leaders/foreign ministers especially of key figures (Chirac,Blair,Powell,Putin,Taliban etc. etc.) right down to periphery players (such as, say, Uribe or Fox too), specifically in terms of the current global conflict in this period Sept. 2001 – April 2003, especially appertaining to 9/11, Afganistan and Iraq. Within this context also agreements/conclusions/speeches etc. For example, free online sites like: [[1]] and [[2]], relating where possible but not necessarily exclusively to the above-mentioned thematic. Hope this makes more sense, thanks again. ==Alang==

Finding specific court cases from the subject of law

Is there any way to find the names of related court cases from the subject of law I'm studying?

The preceding message was brought to us through SBC Internet Services.

From the IP provider I infer that you're probably more interested in U.S. law than for example the Law of Papua New Guinea. But what is the subject you're studying? And isn't the state relevant? Or are you primarily interested in Federal law?  --Lambiam^Talk 03:35, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

See Westlaw. Your TA, teacher, librarian at the law school,or classmates are a good place to ask procedural questions like this. You may need a password or used ID to use this service. Edison 04:58, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Findlaw.com is also sometimes useful for this sort of thing. --Fastfission 18:47, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

The equivalent in Canada is called Quicklaw. Yet either way, unless the questioner is a law student at an eligible law school, both Westlaw and Quicklaw are extremely expensive. (They provide it free to law students to get you "hooked". But once you graduate it's something crazy like $3 a minute). Loomis 06:12, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

QUESTION ABOUT BIOGRAPHY OF FRANSISCO GOYA

Re: QUESTION ABOUT BIOGRAPHY OF FRANSISCO GOYA

What was the cause of death of the painter Francisco Goya. The Wikipage doesn't list a cause of death.

The painter suffered with deafness when he became older. He was diagnosed with Saturnism. This is lead poisoning. One of the symptoms is deafness. It was common to add lead powder to wine during wine making. Educated people drank wine as it was believed to be safer than water. I have also read that Goya had syphallis.

Perhaps he had syphallis & Saturnism, but what ultimately was the cause of death?

Here's an article from the NY Times. It also doesn't talk about cause of death. Can you research this and update the page? Can you let me know if you find an answer?

Gonzalez in Margate, Florida 66.239.212.31 22:51, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

[3]--Light current 16:14, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

ok, the link you posted does remark on the artist's death, but still doesn't give a cause of death...will there be more help or...am I out of luck? thank you, Gonzalez in Margate, Florida 66.239.212.31 22:51, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

There may be more help later. Or if you cant wait, you could try to follow all the links that we would follow. And then follow the links given in the links etc. thats all we do!--Light current 22:28, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

1828 Goya's health worsens, and on April 2nd his right side becomes paralyzed. He dies on April 16th, and is buried in France.

22:51, 28 September 2006 (UTC)22:51, 28 September 2006 (UTC)22:51, 28 September 2006 (UTC)22:51, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

What's with the ticket number? Also, I've removed the separating lines. They're very confusing because they normally separate threads. DirkvdM 08:01, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

OK, I'll wait for a response. This was my first time posting at WIKI. I have researched the issue of the cause of death of Goya a great deal on my own already. WIKI was my last hope. I can wait. Hopefully, you'll have more success that I have had. Sorry about the segmented lines. I didn't know they weren't allowed. Regarding the ticket #. I have removed it. Originally I emailed WIKIPEDIA because I didn't know about this forum. 66.239.212.79 13:39, 29 September 2006 (UTC) Gonzalez in Margate...

There won't be a definitive response. It's impossible for us to know what Goya's illness was, but as in so many cases, it's also impossible for us to refrain from guessing. Goya's biographers seem to have opted either for syphillis or lead encephalopathy. You may find this article of interest. Note that other diseases have been suggested (in the article abstract for "What ailed Goya?" PMID 10541154,

At age 46, Francisco de Goya (1746-1828) suffered from a severe illness that lasted several months. It caused loss of vision and hearing, tinnitus, disorientation, weakness, abdominal distress, and general malaise. After a few months he recuperated but was left deaf forever. In addition to the physical effects, his emotional health and artwork were affected. The precise cause of this illness has long been debated. One early, but unlikely, hypothesis was that he had syphilis. Later conjectures have included Vogt-Koyanagi-Harada disease and lead toxicity. Cogan's syndrome and vasculitis are additional possibilities, although neither is likely to have been Goya's diagnosis. An infectious disease such as meningitis, encephalitis, or malaria is far more likely. Quinine toxicity (cinchonism) may have complicated the illness.

.) Of course, whatever this illness was, it doesn't seem to have been the cause of death! - Nunh-huh 00:12, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

It's impossible to know because there is no definitive diagnosis attributed to his death at the time he died?

It seems likely to have been a venereal disease. His talent was world wide and I doubt that anyone who knew him or admired his art would want to admit to anyone that he died of a venereal disease.

Of course, that's just conjecture. I thought WIKIPEDIA would have found the answer where I failed to fine one.

I think it rather unlikely that syphilis is the cause of death, since there was apparently no deterioration in Goya's condition from age 47 to his death at 82. Syphilis doesn't work like that, so it's peculiar to suggest that syphillis was the cause of his neurological problem at age 40 and also killed him at age 82 with no new problems in-between. That didn't stop nineteenth century biographers from saying it was syphilis, of course. All retrospective diagnoses are questionable, and Goya's is no exception, which is why a definitive statement would be false. But additional historical information on his cause of death may exist, and it may be unrelated to the illness at age 46. - Nunh-huh 01:22, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Do you have some sort of medical training? I came to this site to find definitive evidence, not congecture.

Well, then, I suppose you're entitled to a full refund. - Nunh-huh 15:53, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

I thought Wikipedia was a professionally run organization. Thanks for the insight as to how small minded and mediocre your staff is.

Moleosophy

Does anyone know what it means if a man has a mole in the section of lower jaw (right side). Is it good or bad?

I tried 'moleosophy' in wikipedia and followed the link

http://www.isidore-of-seville.com/astdiv/melampus.html

but they only have given generally that if a man has mole in his chins, he will get gold and silver, and nothing said about jaws. Thankyou

See a doctor for medical advice. Moles can be melanoma.Edison 20:50, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Why would a mole on your jaw be bad? I have two there. Don't be a Hypochondriac~ — X [Mac Davis] (SUPERDESK|Help me improve)01:19, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Ahh moles! Could they be the new funny animals we have allbeen seeking?--Light current 03:02, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

oliver twist

find the impact of industrial revolution on children through charles dickens works oliver twist

• Sounds like a fun homework assignment. It will call for some thought, as well as reading the book. Enjoy! --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 15:09, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

You could watch the video instead. A lot easier and quicker. 8-)--Light current 15:48, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

"My research into the impact of industrial revolution on children shows that singing and dancing were extremely popular with the underprivileged child classes. Even when obviously malnourished and existing only on a diet of 'grew-ell' a simple dance routine accompanied by a sombre song was obligitory in all orphanages and workhouses. In the criminal underclasses singing was more popular, with battered and abused wives using song to cheer themselves up after particularly vicious attacks, often using the song as a justification for remaining in the abusive relationships. Subsistence workers, such as flower sellers and knife grinders would announce their presence with a song, always ensuring that they harmonised with the other sellers they were in competition with. Presumably some form of training was established to standardise the harmonies." DJ Clayworth 19:32, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

• Oh lordy,I've appeared in "Oliver!" and it's so true(hotclaws**== 20:42, 28 September 2006 (UTC))
  • • Five stars for that one. Thanks. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 14:46, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

More help please

http://img145.imageshack.us/my.php?image=5yo6.jpg

and this manuscript. Preferablly the language. Only a few are in existence.

http://www.sortitoutsi.net/forums/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=6296

this piece of music.

Cheers

That is a fascinating manuscript. It appears to have some elaborate nontextual notation, with lines of apparent text scribbled between the lines of nontext. The main point of the document seems to be the nontext notation, which I am guessing might be some kind of musical notation. I believe that the text uses a medieval European script derived from the Roman alphabet, but beyond that, I can't really identify it. There are a few words that could be Latin. While I have some knowledge of Latin and of medieval script, I could not parse much and don't think that it is Latin after all. My next guess would be Old Irish, but I don't know Old Irish and therefore can't confirm that it is Old Irish.

Can you tell us where you found this document? Marco polo 15:41, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

It`s being used as a question in a quiz beyond that I haven`t the foggiest where it came from.

Apart from all the ciphers included, it appears to possibly contain examples of tengwar letters, such as the ones J.R.R. Tolkien used for writing "native" Quenya. Does this make any sense? 惑乱 分からん 17:12, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Not really...I don`t think anyone will get that Question..hopefully someone will get the music piece.

Image:Book of Ballymote 170r.jpg Ogham MeltBanana 17:53, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Aaahh, ogham is "old Irish", indeed... ;) 惑乱 分からん 19:06, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, but I am embarrassed to discover that what I thought were nontext notations are in fact the Ogham script. Marco polo 19:40, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

well, from what I can see this is actually centre about some minor shifting in an action/object or movement, this could be musical of some sort but that seems unlikely to me. also you should remember that in medieval times pages were bewritten multiple times because papyrus and other scribematerials were expensive. about the text added, it seems to hold some connections to the ancient/greek/russian/arabic languages.Graendal 20:55, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

I am sorry to say, but the question is answered, already... =S 惑乱 分からん 21:22, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

This type of question comes up here very often. I used to answer the questions, but I've been unable to get the questioner to answer my question: What quiz? Until the questioner can tell me what quiz this is that asks people to name imageshack images, I will not provide an answer as to what the images are. --Kainaw ^(talk) 02:06, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Does it really matter? The reference desk if for reference, not to cross examine the questioner.

It would have been polite to tell us... 惑乱 分からん 09:43, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Imageshack is just the website that the questioner uploads the images to. It's not a quiz about "imageshack images". --Richardrj ^{talk email} 10:34, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

It is a quiz of some sort. Every week, we get the same thing: "What is this image on imageshack? Please answer fast so I can beat everyone else!" What is the quiz? Is it a radio contest? It is a television contest? Is it a school assignment? The questioner never answers. We just get more random images every week and no explanation. --Kainaw ^(talk) 14:11, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

It`s just a simple quiz where the quizmaster uploads the pics to IS in order so that we can figure out what they are. They`re are a lot more than this and I just ask about the ones I can`t answer. Is it really such a huge deal? You can live safe in the knowledge I won`t come to here for help again. I abhore high and mighty people.

Sorry, then. We'd just like an explanation. If it was a competition, you would have used our combined knowledge unfairly. You have come back here several times, already. Would an explanation of your reasons be too much to ask for? 惑乱 分からん 16:21, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

information organization

I have a plenty amount of information which i have to remember everyday.I have many many office paper files about which i quickly forget.Would anybody suggest simple and polpular ways of organizing information ?

I'd start at Library classification. Although the first part of that article lists popular types of classification in use at libraries, which may or may not be useful for your office files, the part of the article called simply classification gives a more general overview of classification systems, and following the various links in that section may help if you decide to devise your own personal classification system. Chuck 18:41, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Florida south of Georgia

What country owned florida before the United States

See our article History of Florida. -- --Lambiam^Talk 18:23, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Define 'country', define 'own' and define 'Florida'. For example, one might argue that the Indians inhabiting the region now known as 'Florida' still have the greatest title to that piece of land (in as far as one can call it 'land :) ). DirkvdM 08:07, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Election posters

There's a general election coming up in Austria, and as a result there are political posters everywhere. The thing that strikes me is that almost every poster, for every party, features a large photo of one or other of the candidates. This phenomenon seems to be widespread in continental Europe (not sure about North America), but it's very rare in the UK. There, election posters invariably feature some fancy graphic design or piece of symbolism (e.g. the Tories' famous 'Labour isn't working' poster in 1979).

What is going on here from a semiotic perspective? I suspect that British political parties, or their ad agencies, realise that the British people are so cynical about politicians as a breed that they are unlikely to be swayed by a picture of the candidate, no matter how photogenic they are. Indeed, they may be turned off voting for someone if they are particularly ugly. Are voters in continental Europe somewhat less cynical? Are they more likely than the Brits to vote for someone on the basis of a perceived trustworthiness in their personal appearance? Or are European politicians just more attractive than British ones? --Richardrj ^{talk email} 18:23, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

I can add that in the United States, this kind of poster is almost unknown. Sometimes you will get a flyer in the mail that includes a photo of the candidate, usually surrounded by his smiling family (see, he's a regular guy, his wife loves him, you should too). But posters tend to have just the name of the candidate, design elements or colors from the U.S. flag, and maybe a slogan. Marco polo 19:36, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

I once read that British election laws don't allow for campaign ads on television. If this is true it might help explain the UK's less personalized approach. On a sidenote, I've hardly ever seen lawn signs used in European election campaigns. ---Sluzzelin 20:20, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Election posters with photos are very common in Australia. What's just as common, despite being illegal, is for posters to be left in place long after the election is over. JackofOz 20:25, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

I've often thought about collecting all of the old posters and dumping them on the candidate's lawn, but I'd probably be arrested for littering. User:Zoe|(talk) 20:31, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

What you want to do is find those huge 4 x 8 foot signs that are backed with plywood. We lived on a major thoroughfare back in the 70s and had about four of those signs on our front yard. My dad used the plywood after the election to build a new clothesline stand. It's still standing. --Charlene.fic 10:33, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

It depends on where you are in the US. When I was living in Missouri, nobody put their picture on their posters. In southern California and in Hawaii, it was sporadic. Now, I live in South Carolina and it is expected that if you are white and you aren't a household name (like Thurmond), then you put your picture on your poster so people know you are white. If you are black, you leave your picture off so people don't know you are black. Yes, it is racist. But, you are dealing with a state that is always pushing for the worst education award (thank God for Louisiana). --Kainaw ^(talk) 02:54, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Leaflets will generally have a picture of the applicable candidate on them in the UK - one of the things about posters is that they tend to be national posters, rather than individual constituency ones, so the only person it would make sense to show is the party leader. Similarly with our lawn signs, if you're driving past you don't want the big thing to be a photo - the electorate will have a hard time figuring out who that person is, which party they are, or anything else, if all they see is a happy smiling random face - far more useful is the well known party symbols. So leaflets == photos good. Posters == photos rarely applicable. Lawn signs == photos bad. --Mnemeson 21:18, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

(answering the original question) To the best of my knowledge, the ppl in continental Europe are as cynical as the ppl of the UK in regards of politicians and political parties. I suspect that the posters show the candidate (normaly the symbol, the name, or the initials of the party appear somewhere) so that the potential voter never confuses anything: "Aha, Mr X is of party Y, so to vote for X I have to make my mark in the box besides party Y". This seems really easy, but the easier you make it the less the voter has to strain his poor brain. In many European countries the campaigns are also highly personalized (i.e. focus upon the candidate and less upon the party) therefore you show his face more often, ad nauseam. Flamarande 21:28, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

We don't really have election posters in America. Most Americans don't live in places where you could reach them with a poster -- they drive from parking lot to parking lot and live in detached homes surrounded by lawns. We do have the above-mentioned election lawn signs, but they almost never have photos on them -- only names and party affiliations. TV ads, though, do show the candidate -- not only because they have to by law, but because American elections are heavily personality-focused. There are generally two kinds of campaign ads in the U.S.: The kind that show the candidate surrounded by a loving family, and the kind that misleads people into thinking the candidate's opponent is a child-molesting devil. -- Mwalcoff 02:41, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

You don't have all those ugly signs at every intersection from home to work? Man, I wish they'd pass some law to ban those here. --Kainaw ^(talk) 02:54, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

No, but they're plastered on the bumpers of cars until they fade and peel or get replastered four years later. Political posters do appear in the States, but they're usually in urban areas and tend to be low budget plugs for liberal causes that get wheat pasted to telephone poles where they remain until they rot. Durova 07:36, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Again, it depends on the part of the US. I have generally lived in urban areas of the US. We have political posters in addition to lawn signs. They tend to be similar to the lawn signs and get placed in windows, often prominently overlooking intersections where drivers can see them. Also, candidates schedule "visibilities" during the week before the election where volunteers stand in mass around major intersections actually holding the posters. If two or more candidates schedule a visibility for the same intersection, you get the spectacle of their supporters jostling for position. Marco polo 14:16, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

In this part of the US (Spokane area), lawn signs come in two sizes: the 18"x30" "standard" signs that pop up everywhere, and the just-this-side-of-being-regulated-as-a-billboard signs that are used in particularly visible locations. Both sizes have the same content: the candidate's name (last name in much larger type than first name), party affiliation, and usually either the word "elect" or the position they're running for. --Serie 19:28, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

We certainly do have lawn signs everywhere during election time in the U.S. What we don't have a lot of is wall posters. -- Mwalcoff 02:19, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

If photos are forbidden in the UK, then there'e at least one thing that is good about the UK electoral system then. Voting should be about ideals and parties, not people. In the Netherlands, if I remember correctly, photos aren't uncommon for municipal elections, but they're never used for national elections. Not sure if that is a result of the law. Btw, the lawn signs article says they're placed near a polling station, which seems a bad thing (not just aesthetically, but also politically). In the Netherlands, political ads or campaigning are forbidden near polling stations, and that makes a lot of sense to me. DirkvdM 08:45, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

It is not accurate that lawn signs are necessarily near polling stations. They are anywhere and everywhere that supporters of the candidate live, preferably in places with high visibility due to traffic. I will go and fix the article. Marco polo 14:16, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

In the UK, as a general rule we're not allowed to campaign within 100m of a polling station (although that rule can alter depending on local bylaws) (e.g. in Birmingham, campaigning is only forbidden inside the polling station itself) --Mnemeson 09:35, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Roughly the same rule applies in every state where I've lived in the United States, though the limit might be closer than 100m. Maybe 50 yards, since we don't use meters. Marco polo 14:19, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

In the UK the candidate's election address, which is usually delivered free by post to each voter, will usually contain the candidate's photo (often also a photo of him/her with the party leader or another bigwig, though in the 2005 general election it was commented how few Labour candidates sullied their election addresses with a photo of Tony Blair). In the 1997 General Election so many Labour candidates won who were not expected to, and thus were unknown outside their locality, that they were told to bring their election address with them the first time they went to Parliament as their proof of identity! The free delivery of the election address is one reason why there are usually so many "fringe" candidates at by-elections - they often use the address as free advertising for their businesses! -- Arwel (talk) 13:24, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

In California, the election ads for Phil Angelides have more photos of Arnold Schwartzenegger campaigning for George W. Bush, than they do of Angelides. User:Zoe|(talk) 22:27, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

10 Downing Street

Heres an interesting question I can't find the answer to anywhere - who actually owns 10 Downing Street (or the White House for that matter). Do they have some special status? I doubt the Prime Minister (or President) actually takes ownership of the houses while they're in office?

EAi 21:48, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

According to our article on 10 Downing Street, "In 1732 King George II offered 10 Downing Street and the "house at the back" to Robert Walpole (often called the first Prime Minister) in gratitude for his services to the nation. Walpole accepted only on the condition that they would be a gift to the office of First Lord of the Treasury rather than to himself personally." So, the office of the First Lord of the Treasury owns it (not the First Lord him/herself) --Mnemeson 21:52, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, ok. So, who could sell it if they wanted to? Would it take an act of parliament to do so if they wanted to? EAi 22:02, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

I doubt it would take an Act of Parliament - the office of Lord High Treasurer is part of the government, so the government own it, the government could probably sell it. --Mnemeson 22:33, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

The U.S. government owns the White House and the land it is on. It was bought from private landowners and given by the state of Maryland to the Federal Government, when the District of Columbia was created, and the White House was built, rebuilt, remodelled several times, and rebuilt with appropriations from Congress. Edison 03:50, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

The White House is owned by the National Park Service. And it wouldn't have had to have been rebuilt the first time if the British hadn't burned it down. User:Zoe|(talk) 22:29, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

The Year 145

I need to do a presentation for school on what it was like to live in the year 145. I have no idea what was happening in the world at that time & searching for the year just tells me that a few unimportant people were born or died. What was the dominant society at the time? Were the Romans still thriving? Were there any important advances in technology or knowledge in the years leading up to 145? Were there any regime changes or wars around that time? Thanks!

Well it depends hugely on where you're talking about? If you're talking about Europe, then yes the Roman Empire was very much alive then. EAi 21:52, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Were there other, more dominant societies in existence in the world at the time?

Note: Sign your messages using ~~~~ after them. Well, not that I'm aware of, but my knowledge of non-European history at that time is negligible. The article 2nd century could give you some pointers, but theres not much there. This might help as well... The chinese had quite an advanced civilisation at the same time - see Timeline of Chinese history and History of China. I'm not sure about South America. EAi 21:59, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

See List of empires. StuRat 22:08, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

If you want something on this specific year, 145 has a bit of information, including governmental changes. Dar-Ape (talk) 01:06, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

I like to think what it might have been like to travel around the world at some point in the distant past, and so I am grateful for your question, as it offered me an excuse to write about what such a voyager might have witnessed around 145 CE. As others have pointed out, the Roman Empire was at the height of its power in the Mediterranean Basin and western Europe. In 145, Antoninus Pius was emperor. To the north, the Germanic peoples controlled most of northern Europe. Some of the more prominent tribal groups were the Goths, in the Vistula basin, and the powerful confederation of the Marcomanni, centered in the present-day Czech Republic. To the east, a tense peace existed between the Romans and the Parthian Empire, which was about as strong as Rome and controlled Mesopotamia, parts of the Arabian Peninsula, present-day Iran, and parts of Central Asia. In Africa to the south, Rome controlled Egypt and the Maghreb. However, the Kingdom of Kush remained independent in present-day Sudan, and the Kingdom of Axum was a regional power in present-day Ethiopia. To the southwest, the Iron Age Nok culture was near its peak in present-day Nigeria, while the Bantu-speaking peoples, who also had iron technology, had begun to spread from Central Africa into Southern Africa.

This period was a time of thriving trade among different parts of Eurasia. Some of this trade moved overland along the Silk Road, connecting China with the Parthian Empire and Rome. The Silk Road also facilitated the spread of Buddhism from South Asia to China and the rest of East Asia. It was around this time that Buddhism had split into the Hinayana and Mahayana schools. Key to the spread of Buddhism was the Kushan Empire, which dominated present-day Afghanistan, Pakistan, northern India, and parts of Central Asia. Another group involved in the spread of Buddhism were the mysterious Tocharians, who lived in the Tarim Basin of present-day China. Elsewhere in India, the Satavahana ruled much of central India, while the Pandyan Kingdom ruled in the south. This was the heyday of Buddhist culture in India.

This was also a time of thriving seaborne trade, particularly on the Indian Ocean. The Periplus of the Erythraean Sea offers evidence of extensive trade between Roman ports in Egypt and ports in East Africa and India. At the same time, trade from India to the east across the Indian Ocean was spreading Buddhism, Hinduism, and other elements of Indian culture to Southeast Asia, including the early kingdom of Funan and present-day Indonesia.

At the eastern end of the Silk Road was perhaps the world's most advanced civilization of the time, China, then ruled by the Han Dynasty. The year 145 saw the brief reigns of the Emperors Chong Di and Zhi Di. Much farther east and south, Polynesian culture was gradually spreading east across the Pacific. Around 145, it had probably reached Tahiti but had not yet reached Hawaii.

In the Americas, the Hopewell culture of the present-day U.S. Midwest was near its cultural peak, producing earthwork mounds that survive to this day. In central Mexico, the great city of Teotihuacán was gaining in power and would soon dominate central Mexico. To the east, Maya civilization was developing toward its Classic phase in city-states such as Tikal. Meanwhile in Peru, the civilizations of Moche and Nazca left evidence of advanced societies.

Obviously there was a lot more of interest at that time than the Roman Empire!

Marco polo 01:10, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

That seems like a very good summary, except that Nigeria (and therefore its Nok cilization) is better described as west south west of the Kingdom of Aksum, as opposed to south, I think. Picaroon9288 01:31, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Quite right. Thank you. I have corrected my description. Marco polo 12:19, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

A world traveler in 145 would have had many interesting places to visit.In Roman Britain, Hadrian's Wall across the north of England had just been completed, and Roman forces were battling with the Scots. In Rome, Pius I was the Pope. In the History of Christianity, the martyr Polycarp was living, who may have been a disciple of John the Apostle, who was Christ's "Beloved Disciple." The Han Dynasty ruled China. Japan was in the Yayoi period. The Teotihuacán civilization in Mexico had completed the Pyramid of the Sun and was at its peak. The Kingdom of Aksum ruled Ethiopa. Edison 04:18, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

One small amendment to Edison's list: the Romans would not have been fighting the Scots in the north of England in 145 for the simple reason that the Scots had not yet arrived in what the Romans called Caledonia and England would not exist for another five hundred years. What you would have found-or may have found-is the Romans fighting the Picts to the north of a wall recently built across the north of Britain. White Guard 04:52, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. It's like "The Artist Formerly Known as Prince." I should have said "across the North of what is now England" and ""battling with the tribes in what is now Scotland." All the place names were meant geographically rather than ethnologically. In the article on Nikola Tesla there are nationalists who constantly revert to saying he was born in Croatia, a country which did not exist at the time. I am sorry to be guilty of the same error.Edison 06:22, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Black Americans: Incarceration vs. Education

I am working on a project where I am comparing the rates of Black Americans (male and female)that are incarcerated vs. the rate of Black Americans that complete high school. Specifically the rates in Minnesota, but also the rates in the United States. If anyone could be of help, it would be appreciated!

You have two choices. You go to http://www.census.gov and get the information you want from the organization with the most money and manpower to produce a comprehensive report - which will not be 100% accurate for many reasons. Or, you can Google and use numbers from some random website that are picked, altered, or completely made up to back whatever the viewpoint of the author tends to be. --Kainaw ^(talk) 02:00, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

"Or, you can Google and use numbers from some random website that are picked, altered, or completely made up to back whatever the viewpoint of the author tends to be" hmmz, still.... I would not be that quick to trust those figures of the sensus.gov . even though they might have near accurate figures they are still part of the US-government and therefore their reports are likely to be manipulated(not in general but I have found that this is true in most of the cases). I would actually try to go for UN or development agencies figures since chances are these are less edited Graendal 05:27, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

While the census bureau itself is pretty honest, one problem that does merit a mention is that a significant portion of the poorest Americans refuse to participate in the census. This might happen less among African-Americans than among immigrant groups because more of the latter fear deportation. To address the other part of the original question, does this cover total high school graduation or the percentage that complete high school in four years and graduate at age 17 or 18? It should be fairly easy to locate statistics on how many graduate with their peers - meaning how many received a standard diploma twelve years after starting first grade. The Minnesota state department of education should have that data. What would be harder to uncover is how many of those who didn't finish with the pack got their degrees anyway: quite a few of the people who don't graduate with their peers get the diploma one year later. Others pass the GED exam. Also, a small portion of students who don't graduate with their peers either skipped a grade and finished ahead of schedule or started college without attending their senior year of high school. If you want to earn an A on that paper, then devote some space to these caveats. Durova 07:18, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

The U.S. Census includes a question on highest grade attained. Including different choices for having attended 12th grade but no diploma and high school diploma (one of the choices is even 4th grade or less!). Rmhermen 18:55, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

You can bet that the numbers will be atrocious. Black American males, are incarerated at amazing percentages regardless of education or age.

Minnesota, like most upper midwestern states, does not contain significant populations of Blacks in small communities and therefore your study might also include a comparison of metropolitan and smaller communities.

You might want to visit the U.S. Bureau of Prisons website.