Wikipedia:Peer review/Union Station (Erie, Pennsylvania)/archive1

Union Station (Erie, Pennsylvania)

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What could be better, an Art Deco train station that one can still catch a train at, and also where one could get dinner and a beer. Been a long-time coming, this article...but, I believe an eventual FAC would be more than likely. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 00:34, 6 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Finetooth

I'm copyediting, as requested, as I go. I'll have to do this in stages, and here is my first set of comments.
No dead links.
Image licenses look fine.
The images themselves look good with the possible exception of the derelict station, which I think might be better if rotated slightly counterclockwise and cropped. It seems to tilt to the right. (I can do this in Photoshop if you want me to give it a try.)

Corrected; there may be some perspective distortion as well, but with such low resolution I'm not going mess with it. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 21:08, 3 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Do you want to add alt text to the image captions? It used to be required at FAC but may be optional these days.

With the last two FA's of mine I did not, so I won't at the moment, unless they become in vogue again and am prompted to at FAC. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 23:25, 28 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The article contains four duplicate links: "barbershop", "lunch counter", and "soda fountain" in the "Operations" section, and "Youngstown, Ohio", in the "Renovation and restoration" section.

Removed. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 23:25, 28 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Design

I think it would be helpful to include a sketch of the building layout, if one is available in the public domain. The text is clear enough, but it takes a while to arrange the spaces geometrically in the mind, whereas a sketch would make the relationships among rooms, streets, and entrances more instantly clear.

I haven't come across any, in the public domain or otherwise, so far, but if I happen upon any... Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 23:25, 28 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

"The extension facilitated the transfer of mail, baggage and freight between trains and street level, with the offices of the freight company located at the Sassafras Street end of the station complex." – "Facilitated" is one of those words that make me wince, and "located" is often used across Wikipedia when it is not needed. Suggestion: "The extension eased the transfer of mail, baggage and freight between the trains and the freight company offices at the Sassafras Street end of the station complex."

I don't believe the sentence meaning would remain same; mail, baggage and freight are coming from street-level, not the offices. I guess a better wording (maybe a separate sentence?) is needed. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 23:25, 28 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, something along those lines to make the meaning clear. Finetooth (talk) 19:05, 29 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

"The tunnel entrance is directly across the rotunda from the street entrance—a portion of which is now used as the kitchen for the Brewerie." – Although it's mentioned in the lead, this is the first mention of the Brewerie in the main text. Maybe adding a clause at the end, "a brewpub housed inside the station" or something like that would make this more instantly clear.

Replaced. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 23:25, 28 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The quotation marks around "wainscotting" seem unnecessary.

Was directly quoting "wainscotting", but using the generic term "paneling" (no quotes) should work just as well. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 23:25, 28 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I think you could use wainscotting without the quotation marks, if you prefer. Finetooth (talk) 19:05, 29 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

History

"When it was proposed in 1853 to standardize the track gauge to allow through traffic, a conflict ensued with Erieites dismantling railroad bridges and tearing up railroad tracks in the city in an effort to prevent the impending standardization." – "Erieites" looks like a made-up word, although the local reporters seem to use it, and the sentence hinges on one of those "with plus verb-form constructions" that aren't as clear as could be. Suggestion: "In 1853, a proposal to standardize the track gauge to allow through traffic met with resistance from Erie residents who dismantled railroad bridges and tore up tracks in order to prevent the change."

"Erieite" is the demonym for someone from Erie, but I'll admit that it does look odd for someone not from the area.

You might wait and see if anyone else suggests changing it. Finetooth (talk) 19:05, 29 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Is it possible to say which Erie residents tore up the bridges and tracks and why? I assume it was workers who feared job loss.

Short story: it probably wasn't just workers. Long story: The city passed an ordinance banning the bridges, and the mayor deputized a bunch of people to assist in tearing them down. Would that be relevant? Should that be included? Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 23:25, 28 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. I think a short clarification is needed. Why would the city pass such an ordinance? What's not to like about standardizing the track gauge unless you have a job transferring cargo from one line to another? Finetooth (talk) 19:05, 29 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I believe I've reworded it to describe the general resentment for standard guage without going into t00 much detail (there is an article on the incident). Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 21:09, 30 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Predecessor stations

"gentleman's" and "ladies' parlors" – It's best not to link words that are part of a direct quotation since the links were not part of the original. I think you could drop the quotation marks in this case. The link would then be OK.

Removed quotes. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 23:25, 28 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

More to come. Finetooth (talk) 18:11, 26 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

More comments from Finetooth

Operations

"could patronage its news stand" – I've never seen "patron" turned into a verb. Better might be the more conventional "...could buy goods or services at its news stand...".

Actually, it can be a verb. Go figure... Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 23:25, 28 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Decline

"It eventually truncated Philadelphia through service to Emporium,..." – This passage is puzzling. Does it mean that it continued to offer passenger service between Philadelphia and Emporium but not through to Erie, or does it mean that it continued to offer passenger service between Erie and Emporium but not through to Philadelphia. If the latter, why? What was special about Emporium?

I suppose I could word that better, but, basically, when direct train service from Erie to Philadelphia quit, you had to transfer onto another train in Emporium (where the line from Erie connected to the line from Buffalo to Harrisburg). Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 23:25, 28 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I see. Explaining the reason Emporium is mentioned at all, as you do above, would help make things more clear. Finetooth (talk) 19:05, 29 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The last two sentences of this subsection need an RS.

Added citations. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 21:09, 30 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Renovation and restoration

"Since the 1990s, Union Station has also been "an incubator of Erie's modern [beer] brewing" with the predecessor of the Erie Brewing Company having been located in the station from 1994 to 1999, as well as a fine dining restaurant and beer bar after Erie Brewing had been established elsewhere." – I'm not sure what this sentence means. Did the Erie Brewing Company have a predecessor at the station? If so, what was it called? I also don't know if "after" means after 1999 or sometime between 1994 and 1999.

From 1994 to 1999 a bar called Hoppers, I believe, was in the station. It moved out and became the EBC, and the fine-dining restaurant took over the space—I should be able clarify this bit. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 21:09, 30 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Amtrak

" The trolley only operates, however, at the scheduled arrival time of the eastbound Lake Shore Limited." – It would be good to give a reason for this. I assume that it has to do with the arrival times. What are they, ideally?

I see no reason why I couldn't add the arrival times (7:20 AM and 1:48AM) as it's only the one train. Unless it's going to run afoul of WP:NOTDIRECTORY or WP: NOTTRAVEL or something. Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 21:09, 30 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

That's all I have. Please let me know if anything here doesn't make sense, and revert any changes I made directly to the article if you don't find them pleasing. Finetooth (talk) 17:08, 27 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from West Virginian

Niagara, I assess that this article easily meets Wikipedia:Featured article criteria because it is well-written, comprehensive, well-researched, neutral, stable, and has a lede that adheres to Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section. This article also uses consistent citations with verifiable sources; and is of an appropriate length with adequately licensed media included. I do have a few comments and questions for you following my review of this article. Many of my comments and suggestions are quibbles, as the article is already of high quality. Thank you for taking the time to research and write about this unsung historic monument and important symbol of Erie's prominent past. -- West Virginian (talk) 12:16, 5 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from West Virginian (talk) 12:16, 5 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Lede and info box

As stated above, the lede meets the criteria outlined at Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section. The lede of this article stands alone as a concise overview and summary of the article. The lede defines the station, establishes context for the station, explains why the station is notable, and summarizes the most important points of the station.
The info box is beautifully formatted and its contents are cited within the prose of the article.
The image is licensed CC BY-SA 3.0 and is therefore acceptable for use here.
Per Wikipedia:Alternative text for images, it is recommended that this image have an alt citation in addition to its standard citation already included. This is a non issue if the info box template won't allow for this.
This may have been addressed above, but it is probably not necessary to bold "The Brewerie at Union Station."
For better flow, consider rewording the second sentence of the second paragraph like so: "Through a series of mergers and acquisitions by competing railroad companies, which started shortly after the establishment of Erie's first railroads, Union Depot became jointly owned and operated by the New York Central and Pennsylvania railroads."
The lede is well-written, its contents are cited below within the text, the references are verifiable, and I have no other comments or suggestions for this section.

Design

At the beginning of the third paragraph, I noticed that there is no Oxford comma, even though they are used throughout the article. While this is not as deal breaker, I'd scan the article to ensure that Oxford commas are consistently used or not used throughout.
The image of the rotunda in Union Station is licensed CC BY-SA 3.0 and is therefore acceptable for use here. Per my comment above, an alt caption is recommended here.
This section is well-written, its contents are cited below within the text, the references are verifiable, and I have no other comments or suggestions for this section.

History

Even though it is wiki-linked, I would recommend mentioning the Erie Gauge War by name as it was a major event in the city's history. Perhaps you could render it as "...ensued, known as the Erie Gauge War."
The panorama image is released into the public domain and is therefore good to go. It will also need a suggested alt citation.
"grade-separated" is first used in the "Design" section but then "grade separated" is used in the "History" section and is wiki-linked. If the term conveys the same information in both positions, I would de-link the second use and would wiki-link the first use.
In the first paragraph of the "Operations" subsection, perhaps rephrase the first sentence in the past tense as "departed the station almost every hour bound for destinations across the United States"
In the "Decline" subsection, I modified the inline citations at the end of the first sentence so that they are numerical order.
In the last sentence of the "Renovation and restoration" subsection, I'd suggest adding an Oxford comma in "Erie, Youngstown and Pittsburgh" for consistency's sake.
The image of Union Station standing derelict in 1991 is released into the public domain and is suitable for use here. An alt caption is suggested.
This section is well-written, its contents are cited below within the text, the references are verifiable, and I have no other comments or suggestions for this section.

Major tenants

The image of the railroad timetable board repurposed as a beer menu is licensed CC BY-SA 3.0 and is suitable for use here. An alt caption is suggested.
For the subsection title, I wonder if it would be appropriate to give the full name of the Brewerie at Union Station since "Brewerie" is a part of the formal name. Otherwise, I'd change the subsection title to "Brewery" to generally describe the Brewerie, but then this raises an issue with the difference in spelling. This is only a suggestion, though.
I'd also suggest spelling out five for the varieties.
This section is well-written, its contents are cited below within the text, the references are verifiable, and I have no other comments or suggestions for this section.

Other comments

I did an exhaustive search of additional newspaper sources at newspapers.com, and unfortunately there were not too many stories involving notable events at Union Station. It's a shame that the site hasn't acquired Erie and North East newspapers yet! There was an interesting story about how a body with missing legs was discovered behind the station in 2000, but probably not notable enough for inclusion here, unless that would contribute to painting the picture of the station's decline.

West Virginian, thank you for taking the time to review this. I believe I've taken care of the issues you noted (particularly the comma issue), but I've left The Brewerie bolded in the lede as it is a redirect. If you knew the approximate date that the body was discovered I might be able to find in the microfilm newspapers at the library (which is how I found a lot of the sources here). Niagara ^{Don't give up the ship} 23:26, 17 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]