Wikipedia:Peer review/Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel/archive1

Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel

Salute to All - I request your help and advice in transforming this into a featured article. Rama's Arrow 16:20, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

• Comment — Looks mostly good/featurable at first glance. Please delineate the references used/cited in footnotes in a separate "References" section. If none of the "Further reading" sources were used to build the article, then you can also recreate that section. You should use "Patel" (his last name) throughout the article, not his first name (see WP:MOSBIO). Also, the positive/approving tone of the article needs to be somewhat neutralized. I've done some copyedits as an example of these and other hints. I'll post other comments later. Saravask 01:40, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

• Great job so far! Here are some of my thoughts and suggestions:-
  • Maybe this has been discussed in the past, but I just wanted to be sure - per convention, Indian personalities are mentioned by name and not title. Given the tremendous progress this article has made, are we too far down the path to move this article to Vallabhai Patel instead? Just a thought.
  • Per Saravask, refer to him as Patel and not Vallabhai or Sardar Patel in the article
  • There is an amount of verbiage and sentiment contained in the article that could be construed as being POV. I think the language should be toneddown somewhat to present a more dispassionate, comprehensive picture of Sardar Patel.
  • Per the point above, "Congress boss" should be changed to President of Indian National Congress, or a similar title
  • Appropriate in-line citations should be added to the Fighting for Independence and Personal Life sections.
  • "..Patel would be protective of his integrity and reputation as far as possible." How do we know this?
  • "Historians consider that Vallabhbhai Patel's most important contributions came to have occured in the period between 1946 and 1948"
  • "when over 5,000 people were killed in violence instigated by Jinnah" Do we know Jinnah instigated the violence. Sources will be needed, in the absense of which, this phrase may come across as POV.
  • (ironically, he was often portrayed with an anti-Muslim bias) We should not opine on behalf the the reader. Let us delete that phrase.
  • We will need to incorporate criticisms of Sardar Patel's political policies and his handling of the integration of India to present a more balanced image of the Sardar. Furthermore, phrases such as graciously accepted, raucous welcome etc should be done away with.
  • On the whole, very interesting read. Content wise, we will need to incorporate criticisms of Patel's policies, etc. Structure wise, we will have to go through the article with a fine comb to restructure/delete sentences that could give the impression of being POV/non-encyclopedic during FAC. Good luck! Since most of the work that needs to be done now is structure related, I will start helping with toning down the article. I think, quality wise, this is right up there and stands a great chance at becoming FA. AreJay 02:40, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Some observations

This is one of my first reviews, so its more of an observation as I am myself not sure of the norms. Please go through them. If they are not relevant, ignore them.

1. The wikipedia policy on wikilinking years and dates is that they should be made into a link only when clicking on them will give some additional information to the reader. Here, I see that all dates and years of his birth and death have been made links, while the linked pages don't even carry any mention of him. For example, neither 31 October, nor 1875 mentions that Sardar Patel was born on that day, even though it can be added in a few seconds.
2. Other language pronunciations/spellings have to be provided to guide the readers. But here, I feel they have been overdone with 4 languages. The first useful word to a casual reader comes in the 4th line.
3. Congress Boss seems to be informal usage. Wouldn't it be better if it were replaced by As Congress President or Congress Presidentship.
4. Initially I was convinced with the actual hosting page, i.e. Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel, but after going through the template of Indian Independence Movement, I began to think otherwise. As far as I know, the Wikipedia policy is that the actual page should be hosted at the name by which the person is mostly known for. That is, what is the most common word that the user will type so as to reach the page in question. This is because it is suggested that the text at the top saying "Redirected from ..." should be encountered be least number of users. Now the template at the bottom suggests that his most common name is Sardar Patel. So shouldn't the original page be also at Sardar Patel.
5. In the first paragraph, Satyagraha is defined as non-violent mass civil disobedience, while in Satyagraha, it is defined as any effort to discover, discern, obtain or apply Truth. This definition clearly does not imply Civil Disobedience explicitly. While the satyagraha in Gujarat may have been civil disobedience, the phrase can confuse the readers that all satyagraha involve civil disobedience.

Hopefully my comments add value to this article. Looking forward to see this article on the front page. Best of luck. -Ambuj Saxena (talk) 07:49, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Photos

Can we add some more photos to the article? The job may be tough.But from my experience of watching other people going through Wikipedia, a long article without a considerable number of images has a tendency of being subject to non-adherence, I mean people often start to skip reading, even abort reading, long articles without images!!This may sound trivial, but I think collecting some interesting images could br really beneficial for the article. Also, as per Ambuj, the translation of the name in 4 languages in the very first para seems inhibitory.Bye.--Dwaipayanc 20:11, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Photos should be easily available. Just look for photos published in India before 1-1-46. =Nichalp «Talk»= 05:10, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Comment

Please use Indian English spellings. =Nichalp «Talk»= 05:11, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Concern

Unlike Lothal, the subject of this article has been widely written about. As such, I believe it would be prudent to look at sources other than Rajmohan Gandhi as well. For example, India wins freedom by Maulana Azad is one. imo, works by his contemporaries should be given prominence. --Gurubrahma 15:21, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

• I figured I'd use this space for pre FAC comments. It is very good of course. The only larger problem I see is it seems to promote the view that the indepedence was right and the British were wrong. Instead it should state the facts, which it does in large part, but not enough in places. It could probably be fixed with a fairly limited number of rewordings. The rest is details of wording, and I've left some comments in the text as that seemed easier than copying here and indicating where in the text the problems were. Also, in many places it refers to him being arrested for short periods, but not much explanation if there were any charges and often not explaning why he was let go. Why so many short periods of imprisonment? I didn't get to finish copyediting in detail, I'll see if I can't soon, but it's still ready for FAC once what I've pointed out has been addressed. - Taxman ^Talk 15:25, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Some observations

moved to Wikipedia:Peer review/Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel Rama's Arrow 14:15, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Observations

Lead

• "Born and raised in the countryside of Gujarat, Vallabhbhai Patel was a self-educated, forceful and successful Gujarati lawyer when he was inspired by the work and philosophy of Mohandas Gandhi." - That sentence is bit awkward. Hmm I don't have suggestions to improve it though lol. Maybe replace "when" with "who was inspired by..."
• "becoming the most influential leader in Gujarat" - someone will probably question the "most", especially as Gandhiji was also based in Ahmedabad.

Early Life

• "Patel helped his father in the fields, and bimonthly kept a day-long fast, abstaining from food and water.[2]" - why did he keep a day-long fast? religious reasons?
• "Later, Patel called for Jhaverba — his wife, whom he married at young age —" Where was she? when were they married? I am guessing it was child marriage and he called her from her family? Might want to add that.
• "His wife bore him two children — Mani, a girl in 1904, and Dahya, a boy in 1906." - That sentence sounds terribly dry. I would suggest rephrasing "his wife bore him" with something simple like "She gave birth to two children."
• "Major surgical operation" - Do we know what she was having major surgical operation for?
• "Patel also made way for his brother Vithalbhai Patel to travel to England in place of him, on his own saved money and opportunity. The episode occurred as the tickets and pass arrived in the name of "V. J. Patel", and arrived at his brother's home, who bore the same initials. Patel did not hesitate to make way for his elder brother's ambition before his own, and funded his trip as well." This is tad confusing. He sent two brothers or are we still talking about the same brother in the last sentence?

Fighting for Independence

• "...Patel left his profitable practice, his large house and life of respect and comfort for the frugal living and hardship of the freedom struggle." This is not very encyclopedic. profitable practice, his large house, etc. etc. is too long winded and they all say the same thing.
• "Patel had initially made fun of Gandhi's habits and points of view in front of friends like Ganesh Vasudev Mavlankar. But Patel was instantly transformed when Gandhi proposed a demonstration to protest the arrest of Annie Besant, instead of a signed petition." - a) both sentences should be merged b) for some reason chosing to do a demonstration instead of a signed petition does not seem like an action that would transform someone overnight. Maybe rephrase? Was he really transfored by that single action or was it more of a "oh, maybe this guy should be taken seriously" and then over time (as the next sentence seems to suggest) he became his follower?

Satyagraha in Kheda, Borsad and Bardoli

• "Patel's first major participation was during the Kheda struggle." - I think it should be rephrased as "...first major participation in the independence movement was ... Kheda struggle in Gujarat."
• "Asking for one Gujarati activist to volunteer full-time to the Kheda cause, Patel raised his hand and stood up." - This needs to be rephrased to a more active form: "When Gandhi asked for a Gujarati activist to volunteer full-time to the kheda cause, ..." Note: reason for adding in Gujarat in previous sentence was to add a context to "for a Gujarati activist."
• Sarabhai family needs a stub for now - I will try to get to it tomorrow.
• A line needs to be added at end of the first paragraph that tells us what was the action that was going to be taken (I am guessing it was not to pay taxes) to better connect with the next paragraph.
• I did not see anything about Borsad in this paragraph. Also their was lot of general things that he did at the end of the second paragraph that does not fit in this section. Furthermore, I think the section name should be made more general and meaningful - currently it is a bit of a lazy heading. It should be something that summarizes his rise as a leader (in Gujarat) - bad example would be "Leader in making." After the section name is changed, the general causes at end of 2nd paragraph can be moved to the end of the section.

-Blacksun 20:34, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your very valuable insight. A lot of these errors crept in becoz the source has been one book - a key problem I must rectify - and of my own admiration of Patel. I will correct all of these mistakes. Rama's Arrow 13:45, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Lead image

I feel that the lead image of the article is very hazy and stressful to eyes. Even if it is necessary to use it, use it later in the article, and not in the lead. Seeing it in the lead will be a big turn off for the reader. I don't know why the earlier image was replaced, but if the reason wasn't a major issue, I prefer that the images be swapped. The earlier one was perfect for the lead. -Ambuj Saxena (talk) 17:38, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Hmm...I added this pic to the lead image becoz it is a beautiful portrait of Patel in his prime. I understand your concerns about haziness, but I'd prefer to let it stand for some time until more feedback is obtained. Rama's Arrow 18:04, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Sure. Talk page is all about generating consensus. But I am not sure if enough people will be following up this discussion. -Ambuj Saxena (talk) 19:18, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

In 1-2 days, this article will go to FAC. We'll be able to resolve the question then. Rama's Arrow 20:29, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Coin

I have a coin with Sardar Patel's face on it. Will it be helpful to the article if I scan it and upload. -Ambuj Saxena (talk) 07:50, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Yeah sure. Rama's Arrow 11:24, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Lead

• "was inspired by the work and philosophy of Mohandas Gandhi."

How about replacing with Mahatma Gandhi (better known name worldwide)

• The first Photo. The photo is rare, but do you think it's of good quality? How about replacing with more well known photo?

Early life

• What is Pleader's examination?
• "he lanced a painful boil without hesitation, even as the barber supposed to do it trembled." —needed? Is it something legendary?
• "He made way for his brother Vithalbhai Patel to travel to England in place of him, on his own saved money and opportunity. The episode occurred as the tickets and pass Patel had applied for arrived in the name of "V. J. Patel," and arrived at Vithalbhai's home, who bore the same initials. Patel did not hesitate to make way for his elder brother's ambition before his own, and funded his trip as well"— same brother or different?
• "Patel also cared for a personal friend suffering from Bubonic plague when it swept the state."— can it be enlarged as "...swept the state of Gujarat, in the year..."
• Gujarat Club ??

Fighting for independence

• "Swaraj — independence" : Swaraj= self-rule
• caste discrimination - wikilink caste?
• what is national schools?
• "Patel led the satyagraha in Nagpur in 1923 against a law banning the raising of the Indian flag" what was the Indian flag in 1923? The Vikhaji Kama flag? Or Calcutta Flag? or something else? wikilink if needed.
• Gandhi-Irwin pact - wikilink.
• Round Table Conference in London - wikilink properly
• "Congress's" - is it grammatically correct. I am weak at grammar. Please check.
• "When World War II broke out, Patel supported Nehru's decision to withdraw the Congress from central and provincial legislatures, contrary to Gandhi's advice, but India would be divided in its response to the war." confusing line. Break up?
• "Arguing that the British were not interested only in the defence of their interests and not India, Patel stressed that the campaign start without any delay." - confusing line.

Independence and integration

• "When the British mission proposed plans for transfer of power, there was considerable opposition to both within the Congress." what both?
• Junagadh affair- mention some dates, when it happened.

This for now. Rest later.--Dwaipayanc 17:25, 25 April 2006 (UTC) Added more comments.--Dwaipayanc 18:10, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

addition

The last portion is very nice. But, Rama's Arrow, as I told you in the meassage, the paragraphs on Patel's early life needs work. It needs to be summarised, and also some tone down.--Dwaipayanc 19:02, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Lead image

I think someone else mentioned this too - despite being an image that many have probably not seen, its quality is rather bad. I would definitely use the more common image of vallabhbhai in the lead. I am not even sure if this image should be used anywhere else in the article but definitely not in the lead! --Blacksun 15:38, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes it appears that a consensus don't like this pic - I'll replace it with a better one tomorrow. Rama's Arrow 16:15, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Gandhi's death and relations with Nehru

• "But Patel did not help Nehru when he had purposely bypassed him, only later to need his help. Nehru attempted to oppose the will of a majority of Congressmen by suggesting that Governor General Chakravarti Rajgopalachari become India's first President. Nehru's arbitrariness and imposition angered the party, which backed its favorite, Dr. Rajendra Prasad. Patel did not help Nehru to win his way, and Prasad became the President of India in 1950." I dont like how the lead sentence is phrased in this paragraph. Its confusing and suffers from weak sentence structure. Also, instead of saying "patel did not help nehru to win his way" you can simply say "However, Patel opposed Nehru's candidate" or something.
• Again, I dont like the section heading. In general, I dont think section headings should have an "and" in them. This one can be simply changed to Relations with Nehru as it is mostly about two of them or if you think it is necessary to add Gandhi's death it can be Relations with Nehru after Gandhi's death

Also, I think their are some images in the article that have no real captioning except "sardar vallabhbhai." If the image has no other meaning besides that they should be removed. Their is an image that is making the "leading india' section heading indent to the right. This can be rectified by minor edition the image. I would do it but I think that image can just be removed from there and placed as the lead image. Otherwise, I think that article is ready for FA status. I dont think referencing is a big issue at this stage as their are plenty of other references besides Patel a life now. --Blacksun 19:09, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Leading India

"pledge both India and Pakistan to a commitment to protect each other's minorities. Patel, amongst others saw this as appeasement.[56] Syama Prasad Mookerjee and K.C. Neogy, two Bengali ministers resigned from the Cabinet, and Nehru became a hated figure in West Bengal. The pact was immediately in jeopardy"

• Some rephrases I would suggest: "However, Patel saw this as appeasement."
• "...and Nehru became a heated figure in W.B. putting the pact in jeopardy."--Blacksun 14:11, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Drive to FAC

Hi to All - For May 1st, I request your review, advice and help in improving this article. I will start an intensive review and revision of the article on May 2nd, and send it to FAC on May 3rd. I thank everyone who has given their time to review this article, and I will incorporate their advice before finishing work on this article. Thank you, Rama's Arrow 00:07, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Few more specific criticism of S.P. would seal the FA status, imo. --Blacksun 18:20, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

AreJay's Comments

Hi, I'll be adding my comments as I read through the article

• In the fight for independence section, it says Patel volunteered to lead the struggle in Kheda, but only after intense personal contemplation. Can we explain why? (In one sentence, or perhaps as an addendum to the existing sentence)
• When we talk about Patel stepping down from the election of the Congress presidency, we talk about Patel not having Nehru's "assets". Is this why Nehru won favor with Gandhi? If this is just an opinion, we can still include it, however we will need to add a qualifier (with appropriate citation) indicating that it is an opinion.
• Appropriate citation is required to support the statement that violence on Direct Action Day was instigated by Jinnah. Since you wrote the Jinnah FA, I'm sure you'll have sufficient literature to support this claim!
• I think some more criticism of Patel and his policies can be incorporated into the article to give it some more balance. His clashes with Nehru can be further elaborated upon. Also, criticism of his policy to annex Hyderabad should be incorporated. General criticism of his modus operendi vis-a-vis political integration can also be incorporated.
• "Iron fist in a velvet glove" — in-line reference needed
• Can we include a "Legacy" section. What legacy has Patel left behind apart from obviously, a united and independent country?
• On the whole this is a very well written article. I think the article can benefit from copyediting — grammar, tone, eleminating peacock words, etc. I'd like to volunteer for this particular task, let me know if this is ok by you.
• Also, we will need to use British spelling for India-related articles.

AreJay 02:17, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

FA Drive

Hi all - I'm sorry to renege on my earlier promises, but I need a little more time to prepare this article fully for FAC. I will finish the work on May 11th. Rama's Arrow 02:39, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Comments

I know I'm a little late for Peer Review, but I had a few comments about the article anyway that I have been wanting to make for a while:

1. Try and tone down the style, which comes across as a little pro-Patel in the beginning. The introduction repeats the words of the introduction of Political Integration of India, which were deeply problematic. The words 'weld' and even 'nation' will leave the article open to needless dispute. I think that entire third paragraph can be dispensed with, and a reference made merely to his position in the cabinet; his leadership in the integration of the princely states; and his liberal position on economic affairs. I am surprised that the disagreements with Nehru about economic and religious policy do not figure in the introduction. That is after all the basis of Sardar Patel's continuing popularity.

2. Citations. Your citations are OK in certain respects, but other claims are passed by without referencing. In particular, nowhere does Rajmohan Gandhi or indeed, Sarvepalli Gopal in his biography of NEhru - say that the 'imposition' of Rajaji angered the party. Indeed, Sumit Sarkar claims that Patel actively campaigned for Dr Prasad because he was more sympathetic to Patel's hard line on Pakistan. There are several other such claims: "Patel, exasperated and" not wanting to battle Nehru, asked Gandhi to relieve him as he did not have Nehru's youth and popularity; he knew also that an open political battle would hurt India." (We do not have access to this information; this is pure speculation, and should be labelled as such.) "Syama Prasad Mookerjee and K.C. Neogy, two Bengali ministers resigned from the Cabinet, and Nehru became a hated figure in West Bengal." (!!) About Kashmir: "He did not want foreign interference in a bilateral affair." (That will get a lot of people on here saying that its a trilateral afair or whatever. Avoid.) "He was also instrumental in the founding the Indian Administrative Service and the Indian Police Service. For his defence of Indian civil servants from political attack, he is known as the "patron saint" of India's services." (You have to cite this. I have never heard it before. Also, how is he the 'founder' of the IAS? The IAS took over the processes, selection procedures and promotion bases from the ICS seamlessly. Ditto for the IPS and the IP. To talk of a 'founder' is very misleading. And if there were 'founders', they were the senior bureaucrats of the time, and not the politicians. The Rediff article you cite here is useless.) There are many more I could come up with, but you understand the problem by now.

3. Legacy section. Most major leaders should have one. Other than as a Gujarati icon and in administering the incorporation of the princely states, how did Patel leave his mark on India? What do Rajmohan G and Bipin Chandra say about it?

There is a lot of work to be done here. I am willing to come in and help every now and then. Hornplease 13:12, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

You are not late, and your input is highly valued. I know there's a lot of improvements necessary. Rama's Arrow 13:14, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Ramkasam

I sincerely and deeply regret being unable to finish work on this article's FA drive. My fellow Wikipedians, I'm very sorry. I am a big fan of Patel, and literally his student. I want to do this for him, and I swear by Rama to make this the greatest article on Wikipedia on May 15th. Please be a little more patient as I prepare to finish the work. Jai Sri Rama! Rama's Arrow 01:47, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Haha its ok, man. Get it done when their is time. No need to keep giving dates and then feeling guilty when you cant make it. --Blacksun 17:17, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

I am gonna have to perform penance for breaking the vow to the greatest of all. Rama ji ki Jai! Rama's Arrow 05:06, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Let that penance be finishing this article :) --Blacksun 03:07, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm afraid it will have to be stronger than that - it is high sin indeed to so flagrantly and carelessly violate the sanctity of a vow given for Rama. However, I'm happy to report that the work is almost over - a few hours of copyediting is necessary, dat's all. I'll put this article on FAC very, very soon. Rama's Arrow 08:33, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Looks done to me except for maybe some light copy-editing. --Blacksun 21:19, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Comments from me

As said to Nirav on his talk page, I have gone through the article. Here are some more comments. I have only been able to go through half the article yet. It is getting quite late (3:51 AM!), so I think I should go to sleep before some members of my house start waking up! Here goes:

• Fighting for independence - Satyagraha across Gujarat - There is something missing in the line "The revenue refusal was stronger than in Kheda, and many sympathy satyagrahas were undertaken across Gujarat." towards the end of the section. Where was the revenue refusal stronger than in Kheda?
• Leading the congress-Yeravda Central jail could be wikified.
• Quit India- "...full support to Britain if it promised Indian independence at the end of the war". Indian independence needs to be changed to "independence to India" or something of that sort.
• Independence and integration-The first line should be "Gandhi had declared Nehru to BE his "successor"..."
• Cabinet misson and partition - "When the British mission proposed plans for transfer of power, there was considerable opposition to both within the Congress" What does "both" refer to? Transfer of power? But that is only one thing. Should it be both plans - as explained in the next two sentences? Also in the same paragraph "...Patel also engaged the British enjoys and obtained assurances from the British enjoys that...". Should it be envoys? Or is there something called enjoys? In the next paragraph Jinnah could be unwikified as he has already been wikified earlier. Later on "I fully appreciate the fears of our brothers from [the Muslim-majority areas]". Why those [ and ] brackets? In the same quote chaprasis could be linked for others to understand what a chaprasi is.

I must briefly postpone the FAC to Sunday - I am anxious to tie up all loose ends, and I know there are some important issues to iron out here. Rama's Arrow 03:16, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

I could have solved some issues myself, but am too tired. My eyes are drooping and hence would not help meet Rama's Arrow's need for fresh eyes to look at the article. I promise to read further tomorrow. - Aksi_great (talk) 22:27, 19 May 2006 (UTC)