Wikipedia:Peer review/Not Strong Enough (Boygenius song)/archive1

Not Strong Enough (Boygenius song)

This is currently at GAN, but I am also listing it here because my ultimate goal is to get this to FAC within the next couple months, and I recently learned that a pre-FAC peer review can take place at the same time as a GAN. Dylan620 (he/him • talk • edits) 01:03, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Added to FAC peer review sidebar. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 05:41, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

@Dylan620: This has been open for over two months without comments. Are you still looking for feedback, or can this PR be closed and the article nominated to FAC? Z1720 (talk) 17:26, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Hi Z1720, thank you for checking in. I am still looking for feedback as of now – this will be my first FAC (not counting a misguided drive-by from when I was new), and I'd like to be as prepared as I can be. Dylan620 (he/him • talk • edits) 18:53, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

@Dylan620: I suggest that you seek a mentor: the mentor can comment here to give feedback. I also suggest that you review WP:FAC nominations so that you can improve your knowledge of the FA criteria and build goodwill and confidence amongst the FA community. Z1720 (talk) 01:53, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

@Z1720: Funnily enough, I did reach out to one of the mentors on his talk page a few hours before your ping, though I haven't heard back from him just yet. Will review FAC nominations during the next week or so. Dylan620 (he/him • talk • edits) 20:56, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Hi Z1720 – as much as I wish this PR had attracted more attention, I think it's time to close up shop. I received valuable feedback from my FAC mentor and I have a clear vision of how I want to improve the article so it meets the FA criteria. I hope to ship it off to FAC sometime in mid-June. Dylan620 (he/him • talk • edits) 21:53, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

@Dylan620: Instructions on how to close a PR are located at WP:PRG. Z1720 (talk) 01:38, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

Aoba47

• I am guessing there is no cover art for this single?
  • That is correct. Dylan620 (he/him • talk • edits) 21:20, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
    • That makes sense. Thank you for clarifying this point. Aoba47 (talk) 00:45, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
• I do not think this part, (where it appears as the sixth track), is notable enough to include in the lead.
• For this part, (incorporates elements of genres such as jangle pop, pop music, country, new wave, and punk), I would drop the "genres such as" to be more concise and just say "incorporates elements of X genres".
• I get what this part, (with a specific focus on a narrator simultaneously experiencing contradictory mental states of self-loathing and inflated self-worth), means, but I am curious if it could be condensed. The overall sentence is rather wordy already. I could certain words like "specific" and "simultaneously" being dropped. Maybe something like (with a focus on a narrator feeling contradictory feelings of self-loathing and inflated self-worth)?
• I am uncertain of phrases such as "moderately successful" and " minor chart presence" in the lead. It would be best to let the numbers speak for themselves as these metrics can be relative.
• For this part, (was named the best song of the year by Spin, the Los Angeles Times, and Uproxx), I do not think it is necessary to list the publications in the lead. I believe saying that it was named the best song of the year is sufficient.
• For this part, (and for what was perceived by critics as an uplifting aura that contrasted with the relatively dark subject matter of the lyrics), I would remove "for what was perceived by critics" as it was already implied earlier in the sentence that this was what critics thought of the video.
• The placement of the 66th Annual Grammy Awards information at the end of the lead feels tacked-on, and I believe it should be better incorporated into the lead itself.
• Make sure to link Boygenius on the first use in the article.
• For this sentence, (After the 2018 release of Boygenius' self-titled EP, the trio worked on their solo projects.), I would more explicitly introduce who the trio is. Remember that not all readers who come to this article will be familiar with this group so they may not know who "the trio" is until they get to the next sentence.
• I would be mindful that not all readers will be familiar with the concept of an extended play or its EP acronym. I would find a way to parse this self-titled EP link out so you could link and fully spell out extended play to help clarify this for readers.
• In the "Music" subsection, there is a sentence with six citations. To avoid concerns with WP:Citation overkill, I would suggest doing something like WP:Citation bundling.
• Information from the "Credits and personnel" section should also be present in the prose of the article.

I hope that it is okay to add comments to this peer review. I know that you have recently said you wanted to withdraw it, but I wanted to try and help out. I hope that this is helpful, and best of luck with the future FAC! Aoba47 (talk) 02:15, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you Aoba47, I appreciate it! I ultimately changed my mind about withdrawing when I started to worry that I'd be missing out on potential feedback, especially since I've been expanding the article quite a bit recently. I've responded to the first bullet point inline; I'll address the rest by the end of the workweek. (I'm currently working on a GAN review that I promised myself I would finish in the next couple days.) Cheers, Dylan620 (he/him • talk • edits) 21:20, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

I am glad that I could help. Let me know if you have any questions with any of my comments. Aoba47 (talk) 00:45, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

@Aoba47: I believe that I have addressed all of your comments except for the last, which I unfortunately am having some trouble with. My copy of The Record does not list credits for individual tracks—only for the album as a whole—and I can't seem to find anything on the web about a list of credits for "Not Strong Enough" specifically. As a result, I am finding it hard to source direct involvement in the song itself for each person listed in the personnel section. Example: sources that I have found indicate that Rob Moose's work on the album primarily pertained to string arrangements, but the song doesn't have any strings. I am not quite sure what to do here. Dylan620 (he/him • talk • edits) 00:14, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

That is understandable. I ran into a similar situation with the "My Man" (Tamar Braxton song) article. I owned a physical copy of the album (Bluebird of Happiness), but the liner notes also did not list credits for individual songs, and I could not find any online credits either. In another similar instance for the "I Need You" (Paris Hilton song) article, I used a website to support the songwriters and producers. Did any of the coverage (i.e. reviews, interviews etc.) discuss things like songwriters or producers?

I would be more cautious about using the album liner notes. There is some useful information there. For instance, Pat Sullivan for mastering or Mike Mogis for mixing can be kept as it appears they were the only ones did either process for the whole album. But, multiple people are listed for things like engineering and assistant performance so they should not be included here. It is uncertain if they actually worked on this particular song. It is good that you recognized the Rob Moose credit would not make sense here.

It may be worthwhile to reach out to other music editors on here. It is always good to ask editors who have done WP:FAs on albums or songs. It may also be helpful to post on the Wikipedia:WikiProject Music talk page. I hope this was helpful, but please let me know if there is anything that needs to be clarified as I am writing this rather late. Apologies for the length of my reply. It is disappointing and discouraging that credits are not more available even with physical releases. Aoba47 (talk) 01:39, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

Hi Aoba47, no need to apologize at all! I appreciate the insight. I've been a little caught up in some other on-wiki tasks (mainly an FAC that a colleague and I started for an article we worked on together – so I guess the eventual FAC for "Not Strong Enough" will be my second), but I have a few days off from work coming up, and will make time to comb through interviews and podcasts for potentially useful material. I did find an interview with Owen Lantz that may have information worth including. Dylan620 (he/him • talk • edits) 22:55, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for the response. Best of luck with your current FAC! Take as much time as you need. There is no rush to address any of this. I hope you find useful information from the other coverage and enjoy your days off from work. Aoba47 (talk) 01:50, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

The Sharpest Lives

• Hey @Dylan620:! I'm The Sharpest Lives (talk · contribs) (aka Sam). I ran across your peer review candidate and wanted to make a general comment: the article has a possible copyright violation. I ran a copyvio detector (permalink) and wanted to let you know about this. I'd recommend paraphrasing more than direct quoting, especially with larger chunks of text (ex. "In front of me, there was a sea of flailing hands..."). Hope this helps! – The Sharpest Lives (💬•✏️•ℹ️) 20:51, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
  • Hi Sam, thank you for alerting me to this! I hadn't previously been worried about that quote because it was properly attributed, but I've truncated it anyway in the interest of playing it better safe than sorry. By the way, I like your username – The Black Parade is an excellent album. Cheers, Dylan620 (he/him • talk • edits) 22:55, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

    Thanks! And good job rewording it. Anyways, if you would like, I have a peer review open for an album article, Growing Up. Feel free to comment, or not! PS good luck on getting this article to FA status, I love the record! – The Sharpest Lives (💬•✏️•ℹ️) 02:09, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

    Thanks Sam, and I'll give it a look tomorrow! Dylan620 (he/him • talk • edits) 23:11, 19 June 2024 (UTC)