Wikipedia:Peer review/Magnum Rolle/archive1

Magnum Rolle

This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because I eventually want to take it to FA but the prose might need some tweaking.

Thanks, ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs/editor review)}~ 23:16, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Finetooth comments: This is broad in coverage and pretty well-done. It isn't quite ready for FAC. I made many small proofing changes as I went, and I doubt that I caught everything. Another proofing sweep would be a good idea. Here are some other comments and questions as well:

• The tools at the top of this review page find no dead urls but two dabs.
  • Fixed. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs/editor review)}~ 00:49, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

• The table in the High school and prep school section seems unnecessary. In addition, it includes direct links to web sites outside of Wikipedia, and this is a Manual of Style no-no. WP:ELPOINTS has details.
  • The table is common for college basketball articles. The direct external links fall under the category of references. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs/editor review)}~ 00:53, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

• Might be nice to include an image of Rolle in the infobox.
  • There are no free ones. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs/editor review)}~ 00:53, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

• The image licenses look OK to me, and so do the refs except that the multiple red links to newspapers is distracting. I don't think you need to link the newspapers or publishers at all. Even when the links are not red, the blue ones create a sea of blue of limited usefulness.
  • Red links encourage content creation. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs/editor review)}~ 00:53, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Lead

• "is a Bahamian basketball player who plays in the NBA" - Spell out and abbreviate National Basketball Association (NBA) on first use.
  • Done. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs/editor review)}~ 01:12, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

• "His coach at St. George's High School, Darrel Sears, bribed him with fried chicken to teach Rolle the fundamentals of basketball." - Is that detail important enough to include in the lead? It might give undue weight to something that makes Rolle look a bit silly.
  • Sure but it's an interesting fact that draws attention. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs/editor review)}~ 01:12, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

• "Louisiana State University" - Give the abbreviation also on first use; i.e., Louisiana State University (LSU).
  • Done. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs/editor review)}~ 01:13, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
• "team that reached the Final Four in his freshman campaign." - Link Final Four?
  • Done. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs/editor review)}~ 00:06, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

• "and was forced to redshirting the 2007–08 season" - Maybe "and was forced to redshirt the 2007–08 season"? I believe it's OK to use "redshirt" as a verb.
  • Must have mistyped that. Fixed now, though. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs/editor review)}~ 00:07, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

• "he led the WAC in blocks" - Link to Block (basketball)?
  • Done. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs/editor review)}~ 00:30, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

Early life

• " He can trace his ancestry to freed slaves and is a distant cousin of NFL players" - Spell out and abbreviate on first use.
  • Done. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs/editor review)}~ 00:40, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

High school and prep school career

• "Free throw" - Link to Free throw?
  • Done. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs/editor review)}~ 00:43, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
• Link "rebound" to rebound (basketball) on first use?
  • Done. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs/editor review)}~ 00:54, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

• "Rolle was listed as the eighth-best power forward" - Link to power forward (basketball)?
  • Done. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs/editor review)}~ 00:54, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

Sophomore

• "The Tigers finished the year 17–15 and 5–11 in SEC play, disappointing considering their preseason projection." - It would be good to say who considered it disappointing; otherwise it sounds like Wikipedia considered it disappointing.
  • Removed the disappointing part. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs/editor review)}~ 00:56, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

• "Former high school coach Darrel Sears said Rolle was unhappy with LSU since December 2006, and Brady had been making snide comments for a while. " - Maybe "said Rolle had been unhappy with LSU after December 2006"? Also, "snide comments" about whom? Could you make this more specific?
  • Snide comments about Rolle. Clarified. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs/editor review)}~ 00:42, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Junior

• "Rolle badly fell on his hip early in the game" - Awkward. Maybe "Rolle fell and injured his hip early in the game"?
  • Done. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs/editor review)}~ 00:45, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Senior

• "home opener against UALR" - Spell out and abbreviate on first use? Ditto for UCLA above and any others not spelled out on first use?
  • Spelled out UALR. UCLA is really well-known in its abbreviated form, so I'm not changing. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs/editor review)}~ 00:51, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

• "in which he also grabbed 10 boards" - "Rebounds" rather than "boards", which outsiders may not understand?
  • Linked Boards to rebound (basketball). ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs/editor review)}~ 00:58, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

2010 NBA Draft

• Do you need to include NBA in the subhead since the head already specifies NBA? Should "draft" be lowercase?
  • Yes because that is the name of the draft. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs/editor review)}~ 00:58, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
• "said that Rolle had a good wingspan and was very athletic" - "Wingspan" might not be understood by everyone. Could it be linked to something, or would "arm reach" or something else be more clear?
  • Wingspan is pretty common. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs/editor review)}~ 00:59, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Indiana Pacers

• "Although he has not been signed yet, Pacers owner Larry Bird mentioned the team wished to retain Rolle." - When is "yet"?
  • As in now. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs/editor review)}~ 00:59, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

I hope these suggestions prove helpful. If so, please consider reviewing another article, especially one from the PR backlog at WP:PR; that is where I found this one. I don't usually watch the PR archives or check corrections or changes. If my comments are unclear, please ping me on my talk page. Finetooth (talk) 19:31, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Ruhrfisch comments: Thanks for your work on this, here are some suggestions for improvement. Here are a few thoughts.

• There are some images of him on Flickr, but none are freely licensed. Have you tried asking anyone there to release any of their photos under a free license?
  • No. Could you tell me how? ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs/editor review)}~ 22:31, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
• In the lead, I would give at least the state for the Laurinburg Institute
  • Done. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs/editor review)}~ 22:31, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
• Awkward sentence Rolle's season high in rebounds (10) and points (8) while shooting 4-of-8 from the field helped lead LSU past Nicholls State on November 21. I owuld put the date earlier, perhaps something like On November 21, Rolle helped lead LSU past Nicholls State, while making his season high in rebounds (10) and points (8), and shooting 4-of-8 from the field.
  • Rephrased. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs/editor review)}~ 18:03, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
• Need to explain what happened to Tyrus Thomas (assume he left the team, perhaps for graduation or to go to the NBA?) in Coming into the 2006–07 season, the Tigers returned four starters, including Glen "Big Baby" Davis, and LSU fans hoped that Rolle would replace the shot blocking of Tyrus Thomas [, who had ... graduated? left for the NBA? been abduscted by aliens?].
  • Left for the NBA. Clarified. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs/editor review)}~ 00:47, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
• I am not sure what this means and it is rough Former high school coach Darrel Sears said Rolle was unhappy with LSU since December 2006, and Brady had been making snide comments about him for a while. How about Sears, his former high school coach, said Rolle had been unhappy with LSU since December 2006... I am not sure who Brady had been making snide comments about (him is a bit unclear - assume it is Rolle)
  • Hopefully I clarified this. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs/editor review)}~ 00:50, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
• I would use his name and not "He" to start the first sentence of the 2010 NBA Summer League section
  • Done. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs/editor review)}~ 00:56, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
• Assuming it is a newspaper, The Bahamas Tribune needs to be italicized.
  • Done. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs/editor review)}~ 01:04, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
• Could the starting date of the regular 2010 NBA season be added?
  • Done. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs/editor review)}~ 01:13, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
• I am not a writer of sports articles - this looks decent to me, though a bit stats heavy. There is relatively little on his playing style - could more be added on that? I also am not sure how to handle his NBA career, since it has not yet started (at least in terms of the regular season). Refs look OK to me.

Hope this helps. If my comments are useful, please consider peer reviewing an article, especially one at Wikipedia:Peer review/backlog (which is how I found this article). I do not watch peer reviews, so if you have questions or comments, please contact me on my talk page. Yours, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 03:28, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

• • I could start a section on playing style, but I believe that was adequately summarised in the body. It may or may not have been directly stated. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs/editor review)}~ 01:13, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

• {{doing}} Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs^(talk) 01:29, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Comments by David Fuchs

• "His coach at St. George's High School, Darrel Sears, bribed him with fried chicken to teach Rolle the fundamentals of basketball. " His refers to Rolle, so Rolle's coach bribed Rolle with fried chicken to teach Rolle? This isn't clear grammatically and doesn't make much sense as written. Why was the coach bribing Rolle? To teach him basketball? He wasn't going to learn otherwise? You don't have space in the lead to clarify this so it might be better to simplify it instead.
  • Okay, I removed the fried chicken part from the lead. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs/editor review)}~ 23:32, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
• The prose isn't at a professional level yet; one of the biggest issues is repetitious phrasing and redundant diction, e.g., "He eventually decided on LSU", "Despite these challenges, in Rolle's only year"
  • Fixed the examples you mentioned. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs/editor review)}~ 23:57, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
• Most of the required areas have non-breaking spaces, but there are still a few missing throughout the article. (WP:NBSP).
  • I'm sorry, the Wikipolicy on them is cryptic. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs/editor review)}~ 00:23, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
• I played basketball as a kid, so I know the general rules and such, but to me this article relies far too heavily on bluelinks for explanation of technical terms. Every article should be able to stand on its own by what's in the article; if I have to link away from a page, you're not doing your job as a writer and I'm not coming back to read the rest of it—that's just a fact of web usability. Dumb down or explain terms where they are necessary, axe them when they are not.
  • That's why we have links to article, every article does not need to stand on its own. Am I supposed to explain what a rebound is, what an assist is, what a field goal is, etc.?
• I suggest you don't dismiss Finetooth's comments so readily. The redlinked newspapers are not important, and you aren't encouraging creation of links by sticking them in footnotes. The "High school and prep school career" table is unnecessary, whether it's in other articles is immaterial, and sticking external links in the table that way does fall afoul of a consistent referencing system that is part of WP:FA?.
  • Why are the newspapers not important? Also, there is nothing wrong with the table, it illustrate Rolle as a prospect. The referencing system is simply different, not against Wikipolicy. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs/editor review)}~ 00:23, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
• You can find an image. Asking copyright holders on Flickr or on fan sites is a tried-and-true method if you phrase it properly.

Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs^(talk) 14:09, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

• • Alright, I'll ask around for images.