Wikipedia:Peer review/Lucius Caesar/archive1

Lucius Caesar

I'm hoping to get this page to GA status. I'm open to any and all suggestions to help get it there. Also, it's at start class right now, so if it could pass a higher class as it is that would be nice. I'm sure it's at least C-class!

Thanks, SpartaN (talk) 15:06, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

Comments by Mike Christie

I'm not knowledgeable about Roman history, so this is a layman's review.

• I see several citations to Roman historians such as Cassius Dio and Suetonius. I know that modern historians rely on this information, but Wikipedia tries to avoid primary sources if possible. Can these be replaced, or at least augmented, by secondary sources -- a historian's summary of the same information?

Most paragraphs, except the one about the games held where the lions and crocodiles were slaughtered, have primary and secondary sources cited to show where the modern source got his information. I mean that to say they are citing modern sources who are themselves citing the primary sources, but I am happy to find commentaries on Dio and Suetonius. The one in post mortem is the opinion of Tacitus and Dio about he circumstances surrounding their deaths.

• A little more background might be helpful to readers who don't know anything about the period -- perhaps a short section, right after the lead, with four or five sentences giving the political situation in Rome at the time. Most readers will have no idea what "Julio-Claudian" means, for example, or "imperium maius", or "pontifex"; I'm not suggesting that you dumb it down, but make it more accessible for a casual reader -- perhaps a parenthetical explanation in places, or an explanatory footnote.

Can do.

• "An annual sacrifice on his birthday was granted in pursuance of a decree": not very clear. Augustus made this decree?

The Senate, likely to please Augustus. A way of senators to show their support for the emperor. Will explain in article.

• "taking special pains to train them to imitate his own handwriting, mostly by himself": does "by himself" mean he took on most of their training? Or is it just referring to the handwriting training?

Will clarify: it's referring to most of their training.

• You mention their training, and then go back in time to mention the Ludi Saeculares. This would be better in chronological order.

I'll fact check, but it should be in chronological order.

• Do we know why Augustus adopted the boys, rather than having children himself?

We do and I can't believe I neglected an explanation.

• "Lucius and Gaius were given the authority to consecrate buildings, and they did, with their management of the games held to": what's the connection between managing the games and consecrating buildings?

Because the games were held to consecrate the Temple of Marcellus.

• I'd cut the "In popular culture" section; it tells the reader nothing about Lucius. If a reader of the article about the TV series is interested in Lucius they can click through from there. There's no likely reason for a reader of this article to want to know about portrayals of the character in films and on TV.

You're right. I just left it like it was when I made my changes.

-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 03:41, 15 December 2017 (UTC)

I will implement changes in a couple hours. I have to do some reading and find what I need, so right now I'll mention some things about the decisions in the article and what I'll do next. By the way, for a layman, this was a thorough review considering how small the article is and the points you brought up (especially regarding why Lucius was adopted). SpartaN (talk) 04:08, 15 December 2017 (UTC)

I'm glad it was useful! Let me know if you'd like me to take another look after you've made changes. I think this would pass GA without too much trouble. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:23, 15 December 2017 (UTC)

Will do. Also, I think I built around all your points. The background explanation of Agrippa's rise and the death of Marcellus puts their adoption into context. The question of why Augustus didn't have more children after his daughter is largely unknown. He seemed to use her marriages to mark his successors (maybe he thought choosing a successor was better than biological succession?). SpartaN (talk) 07:13, 16 December 2017 (UTC)

Reading through again, I see one sentence cited to Cassius Dio in "Early life and family". The prose is in reasonable shape, but there are a couple of places where a copyedit wouldn't hurt: for example, "the illness going around" is a bit too casual, and "power" is used four times in two sentences in the next paragraph. Plus you give Agrippa's full name in the second section, but don't even give part of his name in the first sentence of the first section; he should be introduced with his full name. The new background section is very helpful. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 03:19, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

I've made the changes, except the word power was reduced to two in that one paragraph (three including the explanatory translation of "tribunicia potestas"). I went ahead and brought it to GAN. You're review was very helpful. SpartaN (talk) 10:21, 24 December 2017 (UTC)