Wikipedia:Peer review/Low (David Bowie album)/archive1

Low (David Bowie album)

Hey all. I am looking to bring this article to GA (and possibly FA) status, so I've listed it for peer review in order to help make that happen. In its current state, I would appreciate some assistance with flow between the opening sections (as there's a lot of things going on at relatively the same time), as well as help with the influence section.

Thanks, – zmbro _(talk) 20:11, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

Comments from Aoba47

Addressed comments

For this part, Bowie escaped to France in 1976, in the lead, I think escaped is rather overly sensational. Something liked moved would seem like a better fit. Agreed. Fixed. – zmbro (talk) 19:22, 3 July 2021 (UTC) I do not think the Berlin Trilogy should be in quotations. The body of the article has this with and without quotations so it would be best to be consistent. Fixed. – zmbro (talk) 19:22, 3 July 2021 (UTC) Would it be possible to revise this part, Six months after Bowie's proposal was rejected, Bowie, without repeating Bowie twice? Changed to just 'he' would that work? – zmbro (talk) 19:22, 3 July 2021 (UTC That works for me. Aoba47 (talk) 19:46, 3 July 2021 (UTC) This part, As a recovering cocaine addict, Bowie's songwriting, is grammatically incorrect as it is describing "Bowie's songwriting" as a "recovering cocaine addict" and not Bowie himself. This would need to revised. I believe this is a holdover from before I started expanding this. Personally I think this whole sentence can be removed as I don't see a need for it. – zmbro (talk) 19:28, 3 July 2021 (UTC) I have a comment about this sentence: The sessions ended with more personal conflicts between Bowie and Angela, which ultimately led to their divorce in 1980. These sessions were in 1976 so I am uncertain if they can completely attributed to Bowie and Angela's divorce four years later. I am sure this time contributed to their issues, but unless either one of them specifically said this was the breaking point, it seems to add unnecessary weight to this time period. I have one more note about the above sentence. This is right after another sentence that starts with "The sessions" so it would be nice to add some variation here to avoid repetition. Regarding the above two points, I removed the sentence. I think this is along the same issues I had with Hunky Dory, in that I just didn't know when to stop. – zmbro (talk) 19:28, 3 July 2021 (UTC That happens to the best of us. I would imagine it would be hard to condense information about such a well-known singer and album. Aoba47 (talk) 19:52, 3 July 2021 (UTC) Ambient music is linked twice in the body of the article. It should only be linked on the first mention. The same thing applies to The Man Who Fell to Earth, Young Americans, and Station to Station. This may be intentional, but I still wanted to at least raise this to your attention. Fixed. – zmbro (talk) 19:22, 3 July 2021 (UTC) I have a question about this sentence: It was also categorised as art rock and experimental rock by Ultimate Classic Rock and Consequence of Sound, respectively. Shouldn't the prose mentioned how these categorizations occurred roughly 40 years after the album's release? Changed 'also' to 'retrospectively' – zmbro (talk) 19:22, 3 July 2021 (UTC) Thank you for addressing this. Aoba47 (talk) 19:52, 3 July 2021 (UTC) I think it would be beneficial to wikilink synthesiser. Done. – zmbro (talk) 19:22, 3 July 2021 (UTC) This is not necessary for either a GAN or FAC, but is there any reason audio samples are not used in the article? They can be a helpful way of allowing unfamiliar readers to hear sounds or other aspects that are representative of the album as a whole. I haven't been able to figure out a way to upload one. I tried to a little while ago but I pretty much gave up because my mac was being difficult. – zmbro (talk) 19:25, 3 July 2021 (UTC) It can be a pain for sure. It is a rather annoying process. An audio sample is not absolutely necessary, but I just wanted to raise this to your attention. Aoba47 (talk) 19:52, 3 July 2021 (UTC) I agree though I think an audio sample would be useful for many of Bowie's articles. I got lucky with Hunky Dory as there's (currently) audio samples for every track available on their respective song pages. But every other one...nope. – zmbro (talk) 20:57, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

This article looks more than ready for a GAN to me. I am not familiar with David Bowie's music at all so hopefully, my more outside and unfamiliar perspective helps. My comments are relatively minor. It is a large article (which is understandable given its influence and the coverage on it) so I would like to re-read it next week to make sure I did not read over anything. If possible, I would greatly appreciate any feedback for my current peer review about a far lesser-known singer. Either way, have a great start to your weekend. Hopefully this will inspire other editors to review this peer review. Aoba47 (talk) 21:48, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Aoba47 Thanks for the comments. If we're being honest I don't think it's ready for even GA yet. I've found "Heroes" and Lodger came to me easily, but this one is different. The lead in particular is lightweight; it currently doesn't mention Iggy Pop's The Idiot, which he and Bowie recorded before Low. Bowie composed literally all music on that album, and on top of that, its sound is a direct precursor to what Bowie would explore on Low. In general, there was just so many things happening at this time that it's hard to put everything in chronological order; i.e. Krautrock influence on Station to Station, touring, Bowie meeting with Eno, recording both The Idiot and Low in the span of 5–6 months, and more. I'm hoping this PR can help out with this, as I've pretty much moved on to other projects until what to do comes to me. – zmbro _(talk) 19:37, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

• Thank you for the response. You would know best about whether or not the article is prepared for a GAN. I understand your point and it is a complicated issue to really nail down and present well. I will try my best to look through the article again sometime next week with that in mind. With that being it said, it would probably be more ideal to have a reviewer who is way more familiar with Bowie and his music as he or she would be able comment on that in more depth and with more nuance than I could. I will still look through the article again though. Best of luck with your other projects! Aoba47 (talk) 19:50, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

• Aoba47 Thanks again for your assistance. I'll reach out to Ian Rose. – zmbro _(talk) 20:57, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

• Tks for reaching out, Zmbro -- yes I find the Low article more challenging then Heroes and Lodger too. I got the latter pair to B-Class easily enough but only did a bit on Low even though so miuch has been written about it (perhaps because of that). Personally, Low is an album I admire more than like -- I listen to Station to Station and Heroes from beginning to end but with Low I keep returning to my favourites, "Speed of Life", "Breaking Glass", "Art Decade", "Weeping Wall", and that's about it. Enough about me though, yes I'll try to spend some time on this one, be good to see it at GAN at least. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 03:03, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

Ian Rose

Placeholder... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 03:03, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

Ian Rose I'd like to open a PR for Ziggy Stardust soon so I'd appreciate any help sooner rather than later. Thanks! – zmbro _(talk) 21:15, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

Ian Rose – zmbro _(talk) 19:22, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

Comments from Richard3120

As you know, I'm a bit more familiar with Bowie's work and this album than Aoba47 is. I understand your concern about not mentioning The Idiot in the lead, but I also agree with you that there was so much going on with Bowie's personal life and the external world that had major influences on this album, it's difficult to know what you can put in the lead without making it too long. But I think you've included all the major points in the prose, I can't think of anything you've left out. I noted a couple of grammatical errors and I'll come back to those after a more thorough re-reading... one thing that jumped out at me was how Visconti was introduced into the text... firstly as a quick comment about coming to mix the album, and then in more detail about producing it and how he was a key player in the sound. Something doesn't seem right to me about the order here, given that mixing happens after production, and I'm not sure the prose flows as it should in this part. But maybe that's just me. Richard3120 (talk) 17:39, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

Richard3120 I get what you mean. Visconti is mentioned quickly first while he was in line to produce Low, he was brought in to mix The Idiot since that was done right before recording Low started. He then produced and mixed Low after. Again, it's the case of everything all happening at once and not in a chronological flow... – zmbro _(talk) 22:17, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

Just wondering whether Bowie's marital problems and interest in the occult should be mentioned in the lead alongside the drug addiction, or is this what you are talking about in the catch-all term "personal instability"? In the Songs section there's no mention of the possible allusion to the occult in "Breaking Glass", particularly the lines "Baby don't look at the carpet/I drew something awful on it"... more than one author has commented that this could refer to drawing of occult symbols on the floor.

Just as an aside, in the last paragraph of the Development section, you've spelled "familiarize" the American way, having used British spelling throughout the rest of the article. Richard3120 (talk) 02:08, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

Update: Aoba47 Ian Rose Richard3120 I've figured out a way to upload audio samples on my Mac so now I can add one or two. Which tracks would you like me to add samples of? Personally I'm thinking one from both side one and two, to showcase the drum sound and the ambience. How does that sound? – zmbro _(talk) 15:37, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

That sounds ideal to me – for side one I would go for the beginning of either "Breaking Glass" or "Sound and Vision", as these are the two songs where the drum sound is most isolated from other instruments and stands out at the start of the track. And probably either "Warsawa" or "Art Decade" for side two... "Warsawa" is the more "ambient" selection and probably the bigger post-punk and synth-pop influence, but "Art Decade" has the pre-programmed synthesiser drum pattern throughout, which emphasises the heavy use of electronics on this side of the album. Richard3120 (talk) 15:58, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Richard3120 Cool I'll add "Breaking Glass" and "Warszawa" later tonight. Now that I can actually add audio samples I intend on adding these for quite a few other pages. I'll probably get one for "Sound and Vision" and add that to its own page as well. – zmbro _(talk) 18:18, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Hi Zmbro, for some reason your ping mmediately above didn't catch my eye, although the one in my placeholder review section did... Anyway I think "Breaking Glass" and "Warzawa" are good choices for sound samples. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 03:37, 19 July 2021 (UTC)