Wikipedia:Peer review/Bob Feller/archive1

Bob Feller

This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because, now that I've rewritten some of the article post-GA, I think it's ready for one more look before an FA run. It's the one article I've wanted to see at FAC for years, and it's almost there.

Thanks, Wizardman 06:12, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Giants2008 comments – Haven't gotten to review much of the article yet, but in the early sections I see some room for improvement. I'm sure you're up to it, though.

• No need to link American in the first sentence. The FAC reviewers will probably take a dim view of that.
• "He helped the Indians to a World Series title in 1948 and in 1954 an American League-record 111 wins and the pennant." Would read better if "in 1954" was moved to the end of the sentence.
• "a total not bettered for 27 years until 1983." Since the year he recorded the statistic is given in the sentence, the end of the sentence is redundant. Elimiating "for 27 years" leaves it perfectly understandable.
• Sporting News needs an apostrophe at the end. Also, that sentence is a run-on and could stand to be split.
• Early life: "Originally the Feller's were Roman Catholic...". Remove the apostrophe from "Feller's".
• Page range at the end of this section should be pp.25–26, with an en dash and extra p.
• As a general comment, a bunch of these paragraphs are starting with Feller. It would be nice to see a couple of them changed to give the writing more variety. Giants2008 (Talk) 21:27, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

  Addressing issues. I'll cleanup the variety a bit, and I'm still gradually adding pieces and parts as I re-read his bio (there was nothing for 1939, for example). Wizardman 18:32, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

  • I'll try to go through the article and clean it up a bit when I get time. In the meantime, I see that reference 1 is missing a date for the magazine. I happened to be looking for a similar citation for another article and found that the correct date is April 26. The page in that issue has a sidebar with the greatest player listing.

    Ref 61 has a bare link. Might be a formatting issue in there.

    Not sure if Efastball.com (ref 79) is reliable. That's the only site in the references that struck me as questionable.

    The lead could still use more sentence variety; many of the sentences start with "He" or "Feller".

    Teenage phenom: "when he struckout Detroit's Pete Fox...". Shouldn't "struckout" be two words? A similar issue occurs later in the sentence.

    "He won the match, 5-1, after allowing three hits." En dash needed, and "match" should likely be "game" instead.

    In the Sporting News award, the magazine title should probably be italicized. I've seen the Wisden cricket awards handled in this fashion in other FAs.

    Military service: Space needed in "After returningFeller...".

    World Series champion (1948): First paragraph of the section could use a couple of citations. Fortunately, this is mostly material that should be easy to find sources for.

    "Cleveland fans contributed to the largest attendance to witness a baseball game until that point in the sport's history...". Feels like it would read better if "to witness" was replaced by the smaller "at".

    Redundancy in "Lemon earned the win in Game Six and the Indians had earned their second World Series championship." Getting rid of one of the two "earned" uses would be good.

    Later years: "In a win over the Detroit Tigers in the second game of a doubleheader, Feller helped the Indians win the game and in doing so, became the 53rd pitcher to win 200 games." With the win indicated early in the sentence, you should be able to drop "helped the Indians win the game and in doing so" entirely.

    "to honor the franchise's winningest pitcher." I've seen reviewers complain about "winningest" before; perhaps "leader in career pitching wins" would work?

    Red link for what I presume was meant to be a Hall of Fame balloting article.

    Remove second word from "Feller and was elected along with Jackie Robinson".

    Later life: Some of the text on his wife's anemia is repeated from an earlier section, and doesn't need to be stated twice.

    Should be clarified that Anne was Feller's second wife.

    See also should come before the one footnote. Giants2008 (Talk) 17:50, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

    Addressed through 1948. Will address the rest as I fill in a few final gaps. Wizardman 22:38, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Comments by Sarastro: Just the lead for the moment, and some copy-editing done. More to come, maybe tonight, and revert anything I've messed up in my copy-edit.

• The first paragraph of the lead seems a little short. I've done a little re-arranging, but feel free to undo it.
• Does WW2 need linking?
• Is the Time magazine appearance important enough for the lead? Unless there is some grand reason to include it, I'd be inclined to take it out.
• The second paragraph is quite list-y: he did this, he has that record, he won this award... And it's quite stats-driven. Maybe this could be improved.
• "Feller became the first pitcher to win at least 20 games in a season before the age of 21": Too much uncertainty here with "at least" and "before". What about "Feller was the first pitcher to reach 20 wins in a season before the age of 21"?
• "The Indians won a World Series title in 1948 and an American League-record 111 wins and the pennant in 1954 thanks to his efforts.": I'm sure the rest of the team played a part! Maybe "Feller helped the Indians to win..."?
• For the uninitiated, and for those of us too lazy to click, maybe say who Ted Williams was, or why his opinion matters. Ditto Stan Musial.
• "only Ty Cobb (98.2%), Babe Ruth (95.1%), and Honus Wagner (95.1%) had a higher percentage of ballot votes": For the lead, this could be cut to "only three players had recorded a higher percentage of ballot votes".
• "and participated in barnstorming exhibition games": Even with the link, I wasn't crazy about this in the GA review; I'm even less crazy with FA in mind. Could this be put into non-sportspeak? Or just left at "exhibition games"?
• The Tom Hamilton (again, who?) quote does not seem to make sense. I just don't see what he's getting at. Sarastro1 (talk) 18:16, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

Early life:

• The family section gets repetitive: his father ... his mother ... his sister. Less importantly, I also wonder if all the information is needed, such as the size of the farm, and his sister's ping-pong achievements.
• Do we need the number of oak trees felled? I've reworded this a bit, and was tempted to take this out, but thought I'd check.
• "he also continued to play on the Farmers Union team in the American Amateur Baseball Congress, going 25–4 for Farmers Union one season": This seems out of place in the middle of his high school summary.
• "going 25–4 for Farmers Union one season": I never like this "going", but don't know the best way to convert it from baseball-speak.
• "offered signing bonuses": What are signing bonuses? Bonuses for signing? Or something else?

Teenage phenom (1936–1941):

• Is there any reason for "phenom" in the title? It seems a little over-the-top, when "phenomenon" would be a more widely-recognised alternative.
• "While scouting Feller, Slapnicka said, "All I knew was...": Presumably he did not say it while he was scouting, but later on.
• "Feller was assigned to Fargo-Moorhead": Assigned to what? This is linked on its second mention, but I think a word or two to say what it was would help (i.e. their connection to the Indians)
• "without visiting either farm club, in a move that would be in violation of Major League Baseball's (MLB) rules as only minor league teams could sign amateurs to contracts": Sorry, don't get this.
• "Feller joined the Indians without having played in the minors...": Now, I may be missing something, but is this not what the whole of the previous paragraph was about? And yet it never explicitly states that Feller (if I understand it correctly) was made a free agent so he could sign for the Indians and play in the majors. So either this sentence could be cut (it's almost like it's only there to include the link), or it should be made more explicit and moved to the previous paragraph.
• "Two weeks later, he struck out 17 batters, tying a single-game strikeout record previously set by Dizzy Dean, in a win over the Philadelphia Athletics.": An outright record for anyone? Or with some kind of qualification?
• "His record-setting rookie year made him "the best-known young person in America, with the possible exception of Shirley Temple."": Said who?
• "considered shutting down Feller for the season": Jargon-y.
• "He went on to win the game, while she walked away with seven stitches and a black eye.": Not entirely sure this is encyclopaedic.
• "The Bob Feller Bar, a chocolate candy bar, was named after him and sold during the late 1930s": This seems a bit tacked-on, and a little like trivia.
• " Lefty Grove had a no-hitter through seven innings on Opening Day, and said in response to Feller's performance to the Tigers, "I'm not sorry I didn't get a no-hitter. Those things are unlucky."[": Struggling to see the relevance to Feller.
• As I said at the GA review, I'm not convinced about the motorbike speed test; although the speed thing was undoubtedly a big deal, this does not make that point and just seems to be trivial. If it is to be kept, some context needs adding.
• Just a general comment: This part of the article is quite stats heavy, and some analysis to offset the strings of numbers. Not a huge deal if this is not possible, but it would make the article a touch more reader-friendly.
• More to follow. Sarastro1 (talk) 22:13, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Military service:

• Is there any way to prevent the repetition of details such as birthdate in both infoboxes?
• "He also pitched in baseball games hosted by the military in order to help sell war bonds.": Important? If so, maybe reword this as it is a little clumsy; did he pitch to sell war bonds, or did the miliyary host the games to sell war bonds. And sell how? As advertising publicity? And hosted how? Were they military teams, or "standard" teams using military facilities?
• "After returning, Feller served ..." Returning from where?
• "Feller's first taste of direct combat was at Operation Galvanic in November 1943, and the Alabama also served during Operation Flintlock while primarily being used as an escort battleship in 1944. ": This may be better as two sentences, split at "and". "While" suggests that the ship was used as an escort during Operation Flintlock. Whether true or not, perhaps this should be made clearer.
• Perhaps the "wins but for the war" section needs some clarification and attribution ("according to X"...) to prevent this looking like editorial opinion. And this seems slightly odd: surely there are others who may have had even better records but for the war, but this kind of exercise is not done. For example, there are many cricketers with stupendous records (e.g. Jack Hobbs, Wally Hammond, Don Bradman) who would have had even more amazing records had a world war not interrupted. But I've never seen this done in this much detail, or much further than "their record would have been even better".
• " Each year, American Legion Baseball presents the "Bob Feller Pitching Award" to the pitcher "with the most strikeouts in regional and national competition."": It's not too obvious (to me, at least) why this is in the military section.

Return to Cleveland:

• "Upon arriving in Cleveland": Where had he arrived from? This should be clarified for the start of a section.
• "Feller pitched a 4-hit game": Jargon-y?
• "including a bonus for attendance": A what?
• "At one point during the season (as Feller thought he may be nearing Rube Waddell's AL record for strikeouts), Feller confirmed Waddell's mark with the AL office that the mark was 344 strikeouts, not 349": Way too much going on here in one sentence, and too many "mark"s.
• It gets quite stats-heavy again around this point.
• "Feller began 1947 by setting up a barnstorming tour": As in the lead, I'm not sure about the use of barnstorming without more explanation.
• "each player had made nearly as much as the St. Louis Cardinals made as a team for their 1946 World Series win": Made as much what?
• There are a few instances before the one in this section, I think, but I'm not too keen on "match-up" as it seems like journalese.
• "By the late 1940s, Feller, who had obtained his pilot's license in 1939 at the age of 20, began to fly his Beechcraft Bonanza during home stands from his home in Gates Mills to Burke Lakefront Airport and then utilize a collapsible scooter to get to Municipal Stadium.": During home stands? And this seems like trivia, and an odd thing to tack onto the end of a section.
• More to follow. Sarastro1 (talk) 21:01, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

World Series Champions (1948):

• "The 1948 Indians had one of their finest seasons but for Feller, the results were mixed": A few things here. First, as written, this sounds like there was a team called "1948 Indians", and does not make much sense. Perhaps "In 1948, the Indians..." or "The Indians, in 1948..." if you want variety. Then, "results were mixed" does not really follow as this has nothing to do with the team's finest season, and what does "results" mean? Wins and losses? How effective he was? His stats?
• "Babe Ruth used Feller's bat for weight support when Ruth appeared for the last time in public at Yankee Stadium in June.": I mentioned this in the GA review; for a prospective FAC, this seems utterly trivial, and if there is some relevance for Feller, it needs to be spelt out.
• "Feller was selected to represent the AL All-Stars for the seventh time in his career in the 1948 All-Star Game": More potential (if nit-picky!) ambiguity: for the seventh time in 1948? Or the seventh time overall?
• "he went one month without winning a game": Would "he was winless for a month" work in baseball-speak? It would be tighter, but may be the right terminology.
• "The player-manager Lou Boudreau...": Is there a way to avoid consecutive blue links?
• "and Feller went 10–3 in the remainder of the season. He finished the regular season": I've reworked this a little (and possibly messed it up, so please check!) but can't find a way to avoid the repetition of season. Is there another way?
• "Feller started Game One...": Presumably the capitalisation is normal?
• "In the eighth inning, Feller and Boudreau appeared to have picked off the Braves' Phil Masi's stolen base attempt but umpire Bill Stewart ruled he was safe.": Lost me slightly here, but that may be unavoidable.
• Are the quotes necessary on this incident. I'd be inclined to cut them.
• "The Braves put up three runs in the top of the first inning. The Indians came back to tie the game and take the lead 5–4 after the fourth inning but the Braves tied it in the fifth inning": We're into journalese here, I think.
• "By the seventh inning the Braves took the lead for good and Feller was pulled before the inning was over.": And here.

Later years:

• "he finished the year with 15 wins, 14 losses, and a 3.75 ERA": Why are we spelling out wins and losses here, rather than 15-14 as earlier?
• "Before the 1950 season, Feller suggested to Indians management he take a pay cut. Indians general manager Hank Greenberg said, "He himself made the suggestion. In fact, he offered to take more than the 25 per cent maximum pay cut allowed. There was absolutely nothing to it. We all agreed quickly on the figure after Bob showed up yesterday."": So, did he take the pay cut?
• Ref for pitcher of the year award?
• "shut Feller down for the season": Journalese?
• "a 4.74 ERA, and a rating of -3.1 in wins above replacement, worst in the major leagues": Something missing here: not a full sentence.
• Is there a more elegant way to say "went 13-3", as "went" seems to come up a lot.
• "The Indians, who had won the 1948 Series despite an 0–2 record from Feller,": The information about Feller's 1948 record seems misplaced here.
• "He won and lost four games each in 25 games, 11 of them starts": This is rather inelegant, and should be reworded.
• "whether Feller, who was also president of the Baseball Players' Association, would retire as a player": How does his role as president fit with the rest of the sentence?
• "Feller shares the Major League record (with Nolan Ryan) for one-hitters with 12,": Is there a way to do this without ending slightly limply "with 12"?
• "He ended his career with 266 wins, 2,581 strikeouts and 279 complete games, led the AL in strikeouts seven times and bases on balls four times": As written, this is reading "ended his career [...] led the AL in strikeouts", which doesn't quite make sense.
• "and bases on balls four times": ????
• "Feller attributed his stamina and ability to pitch late into games to the manual labor he engaged in as a farm hand.": Why repeat this information from earlier in the article?
• "In 1962, Feller was elected to the National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum in 1962, his first year of eligibility, along with Jackie Robinson—the two had traded criticisms at one another on and off over the course of several decades—both were the first to be elected on their first ballot appearance since the original induction class of 1936.": Very long sentence, and the grammar is off. You can't have two dashes like this in one sentence. Also, why the aside about the sniping between Feller and Robinson? It doesn't fit here. We then go onto more about the "feud", but why include any of this in a summary of his playing career? It jars a little.
• More to follow, hopefully to finish tomorrow. Sarastro1 (talk) 22:31, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

Dispute with Commissioner Chandler:

• Barnstorming again.
• "the league's 10-day limit on games that could be played": Lost me here.
• "but Commissioner Chandler ruled no major leaguer could play in Cuba during the winter": Just in the winter, or at any time? If the latter, I'd suggest removing "during the winter".
• We leap from his wife's medical problems to his lost earnings. Maybe could be smoothed.

Legacy:

• "to speak on the length of baseball's reserve clause": Lost me again.
• "and was interviewed by Mike Wallace for an episode of The Mike Wallace Interview in 1957.": Why is this important?
• "Feller was the first player to get a franchise to agree to a share of game receipts when Feller was the starting pitcher for Indians' games and earliest player to incorporate himself (as Ro-Fel, Inc.)": A lot going on here; the two parts of the sentence seem disconnected. Also, two Fellers. And "to incorporate himself" means what exactly?
• The second paragraph seems to repeat what we have already read. One or the other mention should be cut.
• "Feller said a 1974 test involving Nolan Ryan would have no such restriction": What restriction?

I think that is everything. Ping me if you want me to take another look before FAC. Sarastro1 (talk) 20:49, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the review! I'll address all the above over the next few days and let you know if I have any questions about them. I'll then do another read through myself before FAC, seems like everytime I read it I find a few things to tweak. Wizardman 03:23, 31 January 2013 (UTC)