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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Giants2008 18:08, 31 July 2011 [1].

List of stutterers

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List of stutterers (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): PumpkinSky talk 22:47, 19 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list because I feel it meets or is close to FL status. I asked Dabomb87 to preview it and fixed concerns (see his talk page). He's already run his script. This is my first FLC so please keep that in mind. I assure you I'll work through all concerns as best I can. reviewed List of municipalities in the San Francisco Bay Area. PumpkinSky talk 22:47, 19 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Looks good after skimming through. To ensure the list meet WP:BLP, quality sources should be used, most are good but some are questionable, like Elvis Info Net, BookRags, etc.—Chris!c/t 00:45, 20 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Replaced both of those with the same article in Huffington Post by an medical doctor. Are there other refs I need to replace? PumpkinSky talk 01:29, 20 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support—Chris!c/t 02:38, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from KV5
Comments from KV5
  • Remove period/full stop from lead image caption; it's not a complete sentence. (done)
  • "Stuttering, (alalia syllabaris)," - remove first comma (done)
  • "stuttering is unknown, both genetics" - comma should be a semicolon (done)
  • "essentially no 'cure'" - is "cure" quoted from somewhere? If not, remove the quotes. (done)
  • "Examples of people who were stutterers include:" - too wordy, consider Some stutterers include and remove the colon (done)
  • The dynamic list template should either be a hatnote or above the first table (hat preferred). (done)
  • Only one paragraph in the lead is not long enough. More coverage should be given to the contents of the list. (done)
  • Lifetimes with dashes should not be open-ended. It should either be 1982–present or born 1982. (done)
  • Years requiring "BC" should have a non-breaking space between the year and BC; ranges which cross between BC and AD need to have both notations. (this breaks the DTS template Dabomb told me I had to use to get BC dates to sort correctly, I think it's more important and better to not break the template)
  • Tables do not meet WP:ACCESS requirements (rowheaders and such); see Wikipedia:Manual of Style (accessibility)/Data tables tutorial for further information and directions. (done as best I understand it)
  • Copyedit all of the tables carefully; I see a few mistakes like "King George" instead of King George VI, "Muhammed Ali" instead of Muhammad Ali, and "fashion dessigner" instead of fashion designer. (done)
  • "American banker." - remove full stop/period (Vernon Hill's row) (done)

Hope these comments help. — KV5 • Talk • 02:19, 20 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the input. I've marked the ones I did. Others will be done later today. I don't know what a hatnote is so I moved the dynamic list thing. What exactly do you mean by contents of the list to be in the lead? PumpkinSky talk 10:08, 20 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
By a hatnote, I mean that the note would be the first thing in the list, above the lead and lead image, but where it is now is fine. As to the contents of the list, basically what would be helpful to the list's lead would be expanding and providing some further sourced information on some of the more famous stutterers, like the ones you've listed. They should be in their own paragraph (a featured list should ideally have 3 or more lead paragraphs). For example, you can talk about Demosthenes' pebble therapy; another suggestion would be to address King George VI's stutter, and you could even reference that a movie was made about it (all with references, of course). — KV5 • Talk • 11:17, 20 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Worked all. Pls review again. PumpkinSky talk 23:43, 20 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Really good job on the lead. I think it's much more explanatory now. (tks)
  • Open-ended dates still exist. (done)
  • Tables still need row headers; directions are in the tutorial above. (sorry but I simply don't see what's wrong, can you fix one so I can see)
  • "American diver." - remove period/full stop (done)
  • Check your formatting on dates: an example would be "10BC–54AD" - this should be 10 BC – 54 AD (again, that breaks the dts template Dabomb87 says I have to use to get BC dates to sort properly, maybe he and you can sort it out, because I don't know how to please two both of you on this)
  • "19??–present" - I don't think this is appropriate, but I don't really have a suggestion for something better. (agreed, leave as is)
  • "Greek Orator" - orator is not a title; no caps (done)
  • More explanation would be better in captions than just simple names. (done)
Hope this helps. — KV5 • Talk • 00:40, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Redux two. PumpkinSky talk 01:15, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I have fixed the "Others" table (dates and headers) as an example for you. — KV5 • Talk • 01:34, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Many thanks for the date and header fix! I'll need til tomorrow sometime to do the others. PumpkinSky talk 01:48, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Ready for redux three! PumpkinSky talk 22:13, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
"384 BC – 54 AD" - I doubt Claudius lived 400 years. Other than that, all is well. — KV5 • Talk • 23:54, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed. PumpkinSky talk 00:05, 22 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Much improved. This list has my support for promotion. — KV5 • Talk • 00:13, 22 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I think it is a very nice article, and I am this close to pledging my support, but I have a little question: Is there any reason that the last sentence of the lead ("Many people had...") doesn't have a citation after it? Bobnorwal (talk) 18:25, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I almost put a ref there but didn't because several of the people listed outgrew stuttering. But since you brought it up, I've added one, unused in the list before, from the National Institutes of Health, certainly a reliable source. It actually says MOST children outgrow it, vice many, but I've okay with saying many. If you want to change to most, that's fine. PumpkinSky talk 23:24, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Looks good to me! Support Bobnorwal (talk) 00:13, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Giants2008 (27 and counting) 19:12, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comments –
  • "to the point where an untrained ear can not identify a problem". Should "can not" be one word?
  • Cole Sprouse: "American actor, twin of Dylan Sprouse, became the richest teenage twins in the world". He was only part of the twins this describes, so an adjustment is needed.
  • In the Athletes table, Tiger Woods is listed before Bill Walton. This goes against the alphabetical order used everywhere else.
  • Winston Churchill: The note has either one parentheses too few or one too many.
  • Carly Simon: "recipient of ... Grammy Hall of Fame" isn't proper grammatically, I don't think. Try separating it from the other awards in this sentence.
  • Arthur Blank: Spell out NFL in his note.
  • References 25, 35, and 62 have parts of their titles in all capital letters, which they shouldn't be.
  • Reference 22 is missing a publisher (appears to be the Huffington Post).
  • Publisher of reference 25 (Entertainment Weekly) should be italicized since it's a printed magazine.
  • Publisher of reference 33 shouldn't be Chron; this is the Houston Chronicle, a newspaper. Italicize this one too.
  • Publisher of reference 34 should just be ESPN, not ESPN Sports.
  • Should be a space in GolfDigest in ref 37. The name of the magazine is Golf Digest.
  • If PEDA in ref 47 is an abbreviation for something, it should be spelled out.
  • What makes http://houbi.com/belpop/groups/arno.htm (ref 51) a reliable source? As a BLP in a sensitive list, it's particularly important that all of the sources are OK in reliability terms.
  • I see Time and TIME as publishers. Make them consistent throughout; I would de-cap the latter one (ref 62) myself.

Also, for the information of the other directors, I spot-checked sources for some of the entries since this is such a potentially problematic list if done wrong. Everything I looked at checked out. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 00:45, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed all except for the Churchill one because I don't see what you're talking about. Can you elaborate? PEDA seems to stand for nothing and be a take off on "teaching" as in pedagogue. Houbi.com is a Belgian Rock Music archive site. If this nor another ref is suitable I'll just move it to the talk page list and note it needs a better ref. PumpkinSky talk 01:22, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The Churchill note has parentheses like this: (1940–1945, (1951–1955). I'm thinking that the one before 1951 should go. As for Houbi, I don't think it's the best site to be using for an FL. If an alternate can't be found, moving it onto the talk page is probably the best solution. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 19:12, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
So fixed. As for the rock star, I'm sure he was a stutterer but I see your point, so I moved him to the talk page. PumpkinSky talk 21:39, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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