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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Matthewedwards 06:56, 3 March 2009 [1].

List of United States Naval Academy alumni (Astronauts)

[edit]
Nominator(s): — Rlevse • Talk • and -MBK004
Toolbox

I am nominating this for featured list because I think it meets the criteria. It is a full list of all US Naval Academy graduates who became astronauts (over 50 of the them, more than any other university). All images are free licensed. All entries have refs. I'm in WikiCup. — Rlevse • Talk • 21:09, 20 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Truco

Oppose/Comments from Truco (talk · contribs) - problems against WP:WIAFL.

General comment
  • Is this list complete? Why is the cutoff at 1993? Alumni means former so why aren't any more from further years (except for the present year) not listed? The lead doesn't explain this.
Yes it is complete per the official site. — Rlevse • Talk • 23:47, 20 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oh okay, I had doubts since it stopped at 1993.--TRUCO 00:30, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't like the formatting of the footnotes, [b][>]. The letter suffices enough.
That is the way the template does it. Other FLs use this template too. — Rlevse • Talk • 23:47, 20 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Lead
  • Over 50 U.S. astronauts have graduated from the Naval Academy, more than from any other undergraduate institution. -- U.S. needs to be spelled out in its first occurrence in the lead.
Done. — Rlevse • Talk • 23:47, 20 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • The United States Naval Academy is an undergraduate college in Annapolis, Maryland, United States, that educates and commissions officers of the United States Navy and Marine Corps. -- No need to state that MD is in the U.S., we are aware that it is a U.S. state
done — Rlevse • Talk • 23:51, 20 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • The Academy often is referred to simply as "Annapolis." It is also called "The Academy," "The Boat School," or "Canoe U." -- Remove the bold per MOS:BOLD, the quotation marks are enough emphasis.
done — Rlevse • Talk • 23:51, 20 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sports media refer to the Academy as Navy; this usage is officially endorsed. The students are called Midshipmen. -- (1)My comment above about the bold applies here as well, except add quotation marks for emphasis (2)Merge these two sentences with a semicolon or through rewording.
done — Rlevse • Talk •
  • During the latter half of the 19th century and the first decades of the 20th, the United States Naval Academy was the primary source of U.S. Navy and Marine Corps officers. -- WP:OVERLINK of United States Naval Academy
Done. — Rlevse • Talk • 23:53, 20 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • The list is drawn from graduates, non-graduate former students, current students, and faculty of the Naval Academy. -- The --> "This"
Done. — Rlevse • Talk • 23:53, 20 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • The summary prose (the last paragraph) should note the first class (or first graduate) and the most recent class (or recent graduates).
Done — Rlevse • Talk • 00:01, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
That's not what I meant, names of the people should be mentioned in summary. For example, "In 2008, so and so graduated as the first so and so" [this is a example for a significant entry. "The first alumni to graduate and go on into a field of so and so". What I mean is that the lead should give a summary of the table, that's basically what I mean.--TRUCO 00:30, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Done. — Rlevse • Talk • 00:39, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • The lead doesn't explain much about the astronaut program at the Academy.
Done. — Rlevse • Talk • 00:01, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Table
  • Remove all full stops from the notes, they are not complete clauses.
Done. — Rlevse • Talk • 00:18, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Do words such as "Pilot" and "Commanded" need to be capitalized?
done — Rlevse • Talk • 00:10, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • The notability column should not be sortable.
fixed by Gadget850. — Rlevse • Talk • 00:04, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Remove 2 images, it stretches the section.
Done but I don't understand what you're talking about. — Rlevse • Talk • 00:03, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It makes a lot of white space go under the table ;)--TRUCO 00:30, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
References
>I don't like the formatting of the footnotes, [b][>]. The letter suffices enough.
That is a function of templates {{cnote}} and {{cref}}, which have been used on other FLs. They are used for a reference that is reused many times and where the standard <ref>...</ref> tags would result in an unacceptable number of backlinks.
>The notability column should not be sortable.
Fixed. (I thought about that the other day and forgot)
--—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 23:53, 20 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Sources-both USNA and NASA, are official sites. I don't consider NASA primary here, here it's secondary because the article is about USNA graduates. — Rlevse • Talk • 00:25, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It's primary because its an official government owned website that published that information.--TRUCO 00:32, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Are you saying NASA isn't reliable? Or that we can never use a government source on a government program and that we need some 50+ more refs so each person would now have 3-4 refs each? Seems like overkill to me. — Rlevse • Talk • 00:34, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
No, I'm saying that at least one secondary/tertiary sourced should be used, such as a reliable third party website, a newspaper or magazine among others.--TRUCO 00:35, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Basically, that's what you are saying, that NASA can't be used as a ref here because you consider it primary (though I don't), but okay, I'll add another ref on each person, so they'll all have at least three. — Rlevse • Talk • 00:39, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
No no that's not what I meant. Primary sources can be used as long as there are some secondary and tertiary sources as well. This can be accomplished by just adding one to one entry if possible, not all of them.--TRUCO 00:55, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I just added Shephard, Schirra, Irwin refs, all non NASA non USNA. I'll keep going til you say there are enough. — Rlevse • Talk • 00:58, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
  • Why are all the other Naval Academy alumini links listed in the General references. They should be removed, escept for the astronauts.
I meant to do this but forgot. I've cut the unused ones. — Rlevse • Talk • 03:41, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • This list of alumni is a not a college or university, so the template at the bottom should be removed. That one especially, but none of the navboxes link to this list. I generally believe that navboxes should only be on the article if the article is in the navbox.
Cut it. — Rlevse • Talk • 03:41, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "This list is drawn from graduates, non-graduate former students, current students, and faculty of the Naval Academy." None of the astronauts are current students, and I don't think they're faculty either, and surely all of them graduated.
Fixed it. — Rlevse • Talk • 03:41, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Maybe a more specific lead image than a generic hat toss?
Looking, hard to find one that says "Naval Academy and Astronauts". — Rlevse • Talk • 03:41, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
ADDED an astro pic to the lead. — Rlevse • Talk • 13:25, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't see the need for any of the collquial names of the Naval Academy, especially Canoe U. and Boat School.
Cut. — Rlevse • Talk • 03:41, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "This list is drawn from graduates, non-graduate former students, current students, and faculty of the Naval Academy." What does this have anything to do with astronaut alumni?
Tweaked. — Rlevse • Talk • 03:43, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Pls revisit, worked your issues. — Rlevse • Talk • 03:43, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The lead really needs to be more specific to the astronauts. You can't just copy and paste the lead from the main article. "A few are also given the option of entering the United States Army or United States Air Force. Most students are admitted through the congressional appointment system." This is not relevant to astronauts. Many good lists have statistics in the lead. What year(s) had the most future astronausts graduate? How about a breakdown by NASA project - Mercury, Gemini, Apollo, Shuttle? How many naval grads actually walked on the moon? Did any naval grads go on the the same flight together? Reywas92Talk 16:18, 22 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Done. — Rlevse • Talk • 16:45, 22 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

February 2009 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 02:35, 2 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)
Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs) Pretty good list
Done — Rlevse • Talk • 21:14, 1 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "often is referred to simply as Annapolis. "-->is often referred to as Annapolis.
Done — Rlevse • Talk • 21:14, 1 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "this usage is officially endorsed." Source?
Done — Rlevse • Talk • 21:14, 1 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "upon"
Done — Rlevse • Talk • 21:14, 1 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The Academy was founded in 1845, graduated its first class in 1846." Missing verb before "graduated".
Done — Rlevse • Talk • 21:14, 1 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Two alumni were part of Project Mercury, three part of Project Gemini, seven part of the Apollo program, three have walked on the moon, one was part of the Apollo-Soyuz Test Project, and 42 were part of the Space Shuttle program." "42"-->forty-two, comparable quantities should be written the same.
Done — Rlevse • Talk • 21:14, 1 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The most recent alumni to go on to become astronaut"-->The most recent alumni to become an astronaut
Done — Rlevse • Talk • 21:14, 1 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Same reason the main list it, it's a topic. — Rlevse • Talk • 21:14, 1 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Done — Rlevse • Talk • 21:34, 1 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Can the image captions be a bit more descriptive, such as what the astronauts did?
Other than Shephard, they're not doing anything, just official poses in astronaut gear. — Rlevse • Talk • 21:34, 1 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Dabomb87 (talk) 21:20, 1 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sources look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 02:35, 2 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • The work should only be used if the website is a publication or is different from the parent company, i.e., "Biographical Data" in the NASA refs should not be there. Same with USNA Astronauts. Dabomb87 (talk) 20:55, 1 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
See email and juliancolton's stmt above. NASA is not a primary ref and both are completely uncontroversial. — Rlevse • Talk • 21:14, 1 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
You misunderstand. I didn't say don't use the sources, I am talking about the formatting. See this sample edit. Dabomb87 (talk) 21:20, 1 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, sorry I misunderstood, apologies. Done (in a few minutes). — Rlevse • Talk • 21:34, 1 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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