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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Dabomb87 14:38, 24 February 2010 [1].

List of Braathens destinations

[edit]
Nominator(s): Arsenikk (talk) 19:27, 16 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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Wikipedia has hundreds of airline destination lists, but this is the first to attempt FL status. It is radically innovative compared to the standard destination lists, including a historical summary to explain the context of the various destinations and containing all historic scheduled services (not just current). Since this is a defunct airline, the list will be inherently stable in the future. The convention has been to call this type of articles 'Foo destinations', but I am open to move it to 'List of Braathens destinations' if there is consensus for that. Arsenikk (talk) 19:27, 16 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This is a WikiCup nomination. To the nominator: if you do not intend to submit this article at the WikiCup, feel free to remove this notice. Mm40 (talk) 14:09, 13 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wikipedia:Overlink#Repeated links states "long sortable tables, in which each row should be able to stand on its own.". So don't worry about it. I was just wondering why doen't Trondheim have either a IATA or ICTO code and why doesn't Tønsberg also have an IATA code. Afro (Its More Than a Feeling) - Afkatk
  • Braathens dropped Tønsberg in the 1950s, and the airport was converted to a general aviation (GA) airport. Trondheim Airport, Lade was closed and replaced by Værnes in 1956. Because of this, they never received IATA codes, and Lade closed before an ICAO code was issued. IATA codes are only issues to public airports, while GA airports are issued ICAO codes.
Comments from Bencherlite

I'll give a fuller review later. The prose could do with a copy-edit from a fresh pair of eyes, and I'll try to do for you. A few quick thoughts on the presentation, though:

  • Have you considered having a sortable table of destinations? "Country" would have to become one of the columsn, instead of being effectively a sub-heading under "city".
  • Do you have first / last dates for each destination?
  • China did not control Hong Kong throughout this period; it was a British colony until 1997 when the lease expired and it was handed back to China. So unless Braathens only started flying there after handover date, it's misleading to refer to it as "China" without fuller explanation.
  • Jersey is not actually part of the United Kingdom [2] just to be awkward... Having said that, if you can find a Brit who can accurately and clearly describe the constitutional status of Jersey in two sentences maximum, I'll be impressed (and I speak as a Brit!) BencherliteTalk 22:16, 21 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • I have added the countries as columns and made the full table sortable. At the same time, I have sorted the table [by default] by city, not by county then city. I have changed the Hong Kong flag, as it was served by Braathens SAFE from 1949 to 1954, but I left Jersey under UK flag, since I don't really understand what country it is in. I will try to add the begin and end dates later, but the reason I chose not to include them when I originally created the list, was because I though I lacked sources for some of the end dates. I will look into this again. There are also a few airports that were served with significant wholes (for instance, at the top of my mind I think Sandefjord was added, removed, added and removed). But I should be able to find a way around that. Thanks for the feedback, it has made the list look a lot better :) Arsenikk (talk) 16:18, 23 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 20:16, 3 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
  • SAFE or S.A.F.E. (per the article you link to)?
  • Possibly link "charter" and/or "scheduled" in the lead as these are airline-specific terms.
  • Ok, you link charter, but on the second use...
  • "The destinations in Asia were served from 1949 to 1954. From 1952, Braathens became a domestic airline, and did not have international scheduled services again until 1987" seems to contradict itself, unless your first sentence was supposed to include "chartered"?
  • I think you could reduce the number of images in the lead and history section, it's a little over the top for me, especially since several of them aren't directly related to the destinations themselves, featuring mainly just aircraft with little context as to where they are.
  • "Northern Norway" is Northern really capitalised?
  • " It excludes airports where Braathens only operated charter services." - can I ask why? If this is a comprehensive list of destinations, shouldn't it include charter destinations as well?
  • "Malmö Avition" typo.
  • Per a question above, perhaps a note explaining why some of the airports have no codes?
  • Presumably refs 32 and 33 are in Norwegian as well? They appear to lack a language parameter. Can you check all others?
  • We're missing consistency between pp. and nothing for page range refs...

The Rambling Man (talk) 19:36, 30 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

    • I use 'SAFE' consequently, as it is by far the most common printed usage. I changed the mention in the 'Braathens' article from 'S.A.F.E' to 'SAFE'.
    • There isn't really an article on scheduled airlines, so I linked to 'airline timetable'.
    • Changed to ...and did not have international scheduled services again from 1954 to 1987, except during part of 1960.
    • I removed two of the images, leaving the two most dominant liveries/aircraft used by the company. Unfortunately, there are very few images that show both the terminal buildings and Braathens aircraft. I wanted all the images along the list to actually be on the list, so I did not want to add planes at other places there.
    • Northern Norway is a proper noun: although not a single political entity, it consists of exactly three counties. It's a bit like Western Australia. I wikilinked 'Northern Norway'.
    • Concerning the scope: 1) It would be impossible to source any airport that Braathens happened to have operated a charter flight to in 58 years, particularly one-event charters (such as flying Rosenborg BK to a UEFA Champions League away game) 2) There is agreement at WP:Aviation and at several AfDs that the scope of destination articles is to contain only scheduled flights, in part because of the issues raised above. Somewhat simplified (after having been involved in/seen dozens of AfDs), there seems to have been established consensus that a scheduled service is in itself considered notable, while a charter service is not considered inherently notable. 3) Due to charter legislation (particularly pre-deregulation), a charter trip would have to be sold as a package (including a hotel) to avoid flag carrier agreements. These flights would not be part of Braathens' service, but simply where they happened to fly a plane, arguably making them not Braathens', but the holiday company's destinations. 4) Making a list over all places an airline landed a plane would in my opinion violate WP:INDISCRIMINATE point 3: excessive listing of statistics.
    • The following text should be sufficient: IATA and ICAO codes are not listed to airports which were closed or converted to general aviation before being issued such codes.

Thanks for the feedback. Except where noticed, I have amended the article as you suggest. Arsenikk (talk) 21:57, 30 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Further comments from Bencherlite
  • The history section is a bit too much "In year x, y happened. In year a, b happened. In year c, d happened". Can you vary the phrasing more, please? It's rather heavy going at the moment. Can any of that material be dropped? You've got the links to the history articles, of course.
  • Jersey isn't part of the UK; I suggest that you use the Jersey flag, give the country as Jersey and the city as Saint Helier.

The list itself looks OK - I've carried out some minor copyedits, which I hope don't alter the meaning. BencherliteTalk 16:18, 18 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The history section was written before the years were added to the list, so I have partially rewritten the section to be a bit more vague and "soft", since specific years can always be found in the list. Now that there is a year listed in the table, the whole history section could be dropped, but I would rather not see too much of a compromise. Either all destinations have to be included, or the whole section needs to go. A short summary is offered in the lead, so I am ambivalent as to weather the section is kept. People wanting to learn more can always read to two extensive history articles. Arsenikk (talk) 12:32, 22 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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