Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Athabasca University people
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- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page. No further edits should be made to this page. The closing editor's comments were: 15 days, 4 support, 0 oppose. Promote. Scorpion0422 15:30, 7 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The list is comprehensive, stable, and well-cited. I should add that Me-123567-Me has done a good job off adding in citations. GreenJoe 20:18, 22 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose- Before anything else is considered, the table. Use Wikitable syntax. Get rid of all the headers, and the alpha TOC - The list is not remotely large enough to justify those, and the empty letters at the end just further this point. Just make it a table, without the headers and special TOC, and it may have a chance. I'll pass further judgment once this change is performed. --Golbez 20:52, 22 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]- While I'm at it, all the references need a proper ref and cite format. --Golbez 20:53, 22 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Changing to neutral. --Golbez 09:11, 7 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - References are very poorly formatted; they need to all consistently use the Cite Web format. Furthermore, the lead is far too short per WP:LEAD standards, there are redlinks that need to be addressed, and the table is a mess. I second the above post by Golbez; use wikitable format, and remove headers and alpha TOC as soon as possible. And are no images available at all? Raime 21:16, 22 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]Oppose per aboveSupport Now it's good.◙◙◙ I M Kmarinas86 U O 2¢ ◙◙◙ 22:49, 22 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]- Comment: I think I've addressed most of the concerns. Should now be formatted with proper cite web, has two pictures in it (that's all that were available,) I made the table smaller as well. I'm not removing it, it keeps it neat and looking smart. I also de-linked the red people. I'm not familiar with the wikitable syntax. Me-123567-Me 22:25, 22 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- I converted it to wikitax, and I did remove it, it does not make it look neat at all. --Golbez 22:31, 22 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- The last entry needs a citation. I would suggest getting an image of the university (if possible) and placing it in the lead, and then moving the image of Ralph Klein that is currently placed in the lead down to the table. Also, the lead is still far too short and inadequate. It needs some work. Are you sure that none of the non-wikilinked people are notable enough to qualify for a Wikipedia article? If any one person satifies WP:N standards, then an article should be created. Raime 01:47, 23 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Unfortunately I don't even live in Alberta, so I wouldn't be able to get a picture myself. Some of the non-wikilinked people (mainly the hockey players) are notable enough for an article, but I don't personally have enough knowledge of them to create the article, and Google didn't give me a lot to go on. I somewhat agree about the Lead, I'm going to give it some thought. Me-123567-Me 01:55, 23 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Oh well, if you can't get a picture, you can't get a picture. But you still should move the image of the person to the table, as it doesn't belong in the lead. You should resize the images to a single number for both; 200px is usually good for tables. I am concerned about the notability issue; if people on the list are notable enough for a Wikipedia article, then they should have one, or else the list is considered incomplete. Even if the articles are stubs, they still should be created. For the lead, this list probably warrants about 2 paragraphs. Raime 02:15, 23 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Unfortunately I don't even live in Alberta, so I wouldn't be able to get a picture myself. Some of the non-wikilinked people (mainly the hockey players) are notable enough for an article, but I don't personally have enough knowledge of them to create the article, and Google didn't give me a lot to go on. I somewhat agree about the Lead, I'm going to give it some thought. Me-123567-Me 01:55, 23 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment: I think I've addressed most of the concerns. Should now be formatted with proper cite web, has two pictures in it (that's all that were available,) I made the table smaller as well. I'm not removing it, it keeps it neat and looking smart. I also de-linked the red people. I'm not familiar with the wikitable syntax. Me-123567-Me 22:25, 22 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Just a thought: You may want to consider merging List of Presidents of Athabasca University into this article as a separate heading. The topic would fit well into this article. Raime 03:52, 23 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- They're already in the list, all 6 of them. I just created it as a separate list because some Uni's had them that way. I'm ok if the list of Presidents gets deleted. Me-123567-Me 03:54, 23 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- It's great that they are already in the list, but that doesn't mean you cannot have this as a separate heading/list in the article. Rather than stating "5th President", you can just state "President" in the "Known for" section, and then have List of Presidents of Athabasca University at the bottom of the page. Raime 04:01, 23 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Merged in. Me-123567-Me 04:07, 23 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- I think it is good that it has been merged, as it adds to the article and gives it a slightly wider scope. I would suggest creating a "Citations" column, using the same citations in the heading above, but in the ref name format. However, if second reliable sources can be found, that would be fine as well. Also, is there a better title than "#" that can be used for the column header, and can the exact dates of each person's presidency be found? Raime 04:39, 23 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - Can a better title than "Presidents of Athabasca University" be used? Since the title of the list has the words "Athabasca University" in it, it is redundant to repeat it in a heading title. Perhaps "Presidential terms" or something along those lines? Raime 04:43, 23 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- I think it is good that it has been merged, as it adds to the article and gives it a slightly wider scope. I would suggest creating a "Citations" column, using the same citations in the heading above, but in the ref name format. However, if second reliable sources can be found, that would be fine as well. Also, is there a better title than "#" that can be used for the column header, and can the exact dates of each person's presidency be found? Raime 04:39, 23 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Merged in. Me-123567-Me 04:07, 23 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- It's great that they are already in the list, but that doesn't mean you cannot have this as a separate heading/list in the article. Rather than stating "5th President", you can just state "President" in the "Known for" section, and then have List of Presidents of Athabasca University at the bottom of the page. Raime 04:01, 23 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- They're already in the list, all 6 of them. I just created it as a separate list because some Uni's had them that way. I'm ok if the list of Presidents gets deleted. Me-123567-Me 03:54, 23 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - There's several blacklinks here that I don't quite understand why they are mentioned:
- David Burnett - A past chair? How many past chairs have there been? And if he's not notable enough for his own article, why is he mentioned above the others? Remove or make an article.
- Jeri Grieco - What's so special about the Governor General's Award? If it's not notable enough for an article... Oh, and furthermore, the cited source does not contain any mention of a "governor general's award."
- Marilyn Kane - See entry for Burnett. Being in the power structure of the university but otherwise not having your own article shouldn't really be grounds for inclusion IMO.
- Kim McConnell - A senior project manager for a regional extension of a major corporation, I'm not sure if that's notable enough for inclusion. Generally, if they don't merit their own article (and maybe she does), they probably shouldn't be on the list.
- Lindsay Redpath - "Academic"?
- Bill Robinson - Surely being a sergeant in the RCMP is not in itself grounds for inclusion.
- I would also suggest removing the presidents from the table unless they're independently notable, and just having them in the presidents table. Or have a 'see also' for the presidents, but I'm not going to hinge support on that issue yet. The above is more pressing. --Golbez 09:50, 23 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- I put the Presidents back into their own list. Most of them aren't independently notable, but it has been established that by virtue of office a Uni President is notable. Jeri Greico - If I recall, she's a an author, but I couldn't find a lot on her, so I removed her. David Burnett - He was a public appointee, so he would have done something to earn it, if nothing else but via a patronage appointment. However, it will require more research. I can add him in later. Lindsay Redpath - She's basically the Dean of Business at the Uni. Kim MConnell - I agree, and I've removed her. Bill Robinson - I also agree. Me-123567-Me 12:04, 23 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Maybe its best not to have the separate heading of "Presidents" below. I still think that removal from the table and then leaving the Presidents in a separate table with mored detailed information about their terms is appropriate, but that is just my opinion. But List of Presidents of Athabasca University is not notable enough to stand as its own list, and does not need to exist when this list appropriately lists and classifies esch of the six Presidents. Therefore, I've nominated it for WP:PROD. This may be a stupid comment, and it has no bearing on my opinion of the list, but do you think separating the list into separate headings of "Faculty" and "Alumni" would be appropriate? The only entry who does not fit into either of those categories appears to be Dorothy Livesay, who could easily be listed under "Alumni" with a note, or a separate "Other" section. This is a just thought. Raime 13:40, 23 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- I don't think so right now. There just aren't enough people on the list, there's maybe 40 people on the list right now, it makes sense for it to just all be one at the moment. Me-123567-Me 17:42, 23 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- I don't think its short length is really a problem for dividing up the list, but as I said before, this is simply an opinion. However, I still feel that re-adding a table of Presidents and their terms, and subsequently removing the Presidents from the original list, would add to the list. Raime 18:08, 23 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- I don't think so right now. There just aren't enough people on the list, there's maybe 40 people on the list right now, it makes sense for it to just all be one at the moment. Me-123567-Me 17:42, 23 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Maybe its best not to have the separate heading of "Presidents" below. I still think that removal from the table and then leaving the Presidents in a separate table with mored detailed information about their terms is appropriate, but that is just my opinion. But List of Presidents of Athabasca University is not notable enough to stand as its own list, and does not need to exist when this list appropriately lists and classifies esch of the six Presidents. Therefore, I've nominated it for WP:PROD. This may be a stupid comment, and it has no bearing on my opinion of the list, but do you think separating the list into separate headings of "Faculty" and "Alumni" would be appropriate? The only entry who does not fit into either of those categories appears to be Dorothy Livesay, who could easily be listed under "Alumni" with a note, or a separate "Other" section. This is a just thought. Raime 13:40, 23 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- I put the Presidents back into their own list. Most of them aren't independently notable, but it has been established that by virtue of office a Uni President is notable. Jeri Greico - If I recall, she's a an author, but I couldn't find a lot on her, so I removed her. David Burnett - He was a public appointee, so he would have done something to earn it, if nothing else but via a patronage appointment. However, it will require more research. I can add him in later. Lindsay Redpath - She's basically the Dean of Business at the Uni. Kim MConnell - I agree, and I've removed her. Bill Robinson - I also agree. Me-123567-Me 12:04, 23 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'm getting ready to get on a plane in a few hours, so I'll check in tonight or tomorrow. I'll give some thought to what you're suggesting, Raime. Me-123567-Me 18:31, 23 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- I haven't seen any activity here lately. What requirements haven't been satisfied yet? Me-123567-Me 01:00, 3 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Support, All concerns addressed. Raime 01:42, 3 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Support, Looks good to me. --Cloveious 05:55, 7 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]