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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Gog the Mild via FACBot (talk) 4 June 2024 [1].

Yugoslav submarine Mališan

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Nominator(s): Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 21:04, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about a dinky little midget sub that was built by the Italians for harbour defence and anti-submarine warfare tasks in WWII, but was incomplete at the time of the Italian armistice in September 1943, and ended up being handed over to the Italian Social Republic (rump fascist Italy) by the Germans after capture and completion. Captured by the Yugolavs at the end of the war, they repaired and commissioned her for use as a training boat. In 1953 she became a museum boat (a long way from the sea in Zagreb), and she was recently refurbished. There has been some controversy about returning her to her Italian colours and markings rather than retaining her Yugoslav ones. I nominated it at FAC in February but RW stuff took over and I was unable to address the review comments in a timely way, so the FAC was closed. I believe I have now addressed all the comments that were outstanding (@Nikkimaria, RoySmith, Volcanoguy, and Pickersgill-Cunliffe:, see my edits here), so let's have another go! Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 21:04, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Generalissima's comments

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Aww, this FAC has been sadly ignored thus far! Marking myself down to do a source and image review later. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 16:16, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Peacemaker67: Aighty! Images first up:

  • File:Podmornica CB20 (P901).jpg: Creative commons, uploaded as an own work. Looks good all around.
  • File:CB-20 Caproni U-Boot-Italien 1943 Zagreb TeslaMus 20220617 5.jpg. Ditto.
These are both good, but I feel they might be better if their order was swapped (ie, the restored image is used in the infobox, and the pre-restoration image for context below); since the restored apperance would be closer to the vessel as it would have appeared during its service, no?
The article is at its last and Yugoslav name, so IMHO it is far better to have the infobox image as its appearance in Yugoslav service. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 00:06, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And now sources.

  • Sources are consistently cited using SFNs. Books have ISBNs, and their cites are consistently formatted.
  • Shouldn't Technical Museum be credited as Nikola Tesla Technical Museum? There's a number of technical museums out there.
It was just the "Technical Museum" at the time, it only changed its name in 2015. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 00:06, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Obviously, it's okay to cite the Technical Museum a lot here, since it's obviously going to be an RS.
  • Obrana i sigurnost appears to be a blog, but it's by a clear subject matter expert, so good to go here.
  • tportal.hr is the one that gives me pause. This appears to be a news aggregator or portal - but at the same time, I think this article is actually being published on the cite itself, rather than posted from elsewhere. I know it's just used to cite a date, but do you know if this source is subject to any sort of editorial review? (Side note: Machine translation translated the name of the ship as "toddler" and if that's an accurate translation that's the funniest name I have ever heard for a naval vessel.)
While tportal.hr is a news aggregator/portal, it is operated by Hrvatski Telekom, which has an editorial board led by Dijana Suton, formerly executive editor at Poslovni dnevnik, a well regarded Croatian business and finance newspaper. Given it is only being used for the date the sub was unveiled, I think it is fine. Mališan is sort of a "slang" version of the English term "little one". Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 00:06, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Since you have one or two FAs under your belt, I feel a full spot check isn't really necessary here. I could of course try my darndest if you desire one. That's all I have for now! Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 16:58, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks so much for your review, Generalissima! I think I've addressed your points. Regards, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 00:06, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

HF

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I'm not sure why this isn't getting any attention; I'll try to review this week. Hog Farm Talk 15:29, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Is it known why Malisan recieved the less powerful motor?
Nothing in sources, but I wouldn't be surprised if the later boats of the class got whatever motors were available to Caproni after the main Italian surrender. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:48, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • "and a 7.92-millimetre (0.31 in) machine gun was stored inside the boat for mounting forward if needed" - had the previous machine gun been removed by this point, or is this not mentioned in the sources
Sources don't mentioned whether the previous tripod and machine gun was removed, but I would have thought that the original one wouldn't have been mounted except when surfaced. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:48, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • "with the designation P-901" - is P-901 enough of a ship name that it should be capitalized?
not sure what you mean here, it is capitalised already? Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:48, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Peacemaker67 - Sorry, I meant italicized, not capitalized. Hog Farm Talk 23:32, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No, per MOS:NAT the pennant number should be in normal font. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:00, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • "She undertook one longer cruise in Yugoslav waters between Pula, Rijeka and Zadar." - when?
Not given in sources. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:48, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't know that all that information about CB-26 is necessarily relevant to this article
It is really there to compare and contrast the restoration of it with the work done on this boat. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:48, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think that's all from me. Hog Farm Talk 02:17, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

G'day HF, thanks very much for taking a look. One comment I don't understand. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 23:18, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
G'day HF, responded to the outstanding one. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:00, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Supporting Hog Farm Talk 01:55, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments from JennyOz

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Hi PM, dinky indeed! Just a few bits from me...

top

  • add dmy template
Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:06, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

ibox image

  • alt lower hull and dark gray paint - hyphen and spelling ie dark-grey
Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:06, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

lede

  • she was ordered by the Italian Regia Marina (Royal Navy) for harbour defence and anti-submarine warfare tasks, - no actual mention of WWII? (until the mention of "a World War II German puppet state")
Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:06, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Design and construction

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:16, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • The single rudder and diving planes were both of the semi-balanced type.[1] - "both" seems odd here with planes plural - change to 'all' or simply remove "both"?
The latter, thanks. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:16, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • According to the naval historian Zvonimir Freivogel, some sources indicate that - he is already introduced the same just above, so just Freivogel here?
Whoops, done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:16, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • When running at full speed on the surface, the boat had a range of only 450 nautical miles (830 km; 520 mi); at 5 kn (9.3 km/h; 5.8 mph) this increased to 1,400 nmi (2,600 km; 1,600 mi). - how increased? lower speed?
Yes, tried to clarify that this was more of a cruising speed. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:16, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Service history

  • magnetic mines - add link?
Thanks, done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:25, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Aftermath

  • image alt - light green paint on the lower hull and deck and light gray paint on the - hyphens light-green and light-gray... but grey
Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:25, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • the tail section with the propeller and the torpedo tubes were dismantled and restored. - tail section was or remove with?
Rearranged the sentence, see if it works now? Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:25, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • while the Italians had over twenty boats of the class in service, Yugoslavia had only one. - had only one – Mališan ?
Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:25, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

Both done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:25, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Bonus

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:25, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry PM, I meant to add Mališan to that list article. No problem though. (I was surprised when I couldn't find categories for 'Ships commissioned in xxxx' and 'Ships decommissioned in xxxx'.) JennyOz (talk) 10:19, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's me, JennyOz (talk) 11:11, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks so much for the review, Jenny! See what you think of my responses/edits. Regards, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:25, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks PM - always a pleasure. Very readable and understood by this non-MilHist editor. I'm happy to s'port. JennyOz (talk) 10:19, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Matarisvan

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Hi Peacemaker67, some comments:

  • "Mališan in the Technical Museum...": wouldn't "Mališan at the Technical Museum..." be better from a grammatical POV?
Sure, for consistency with the other caption, but they are both in fact inside the Museum, so "in" would still be accurate. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:51, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wdyt about splitting the first paragraph of the lead, with the breakaway paragraph beginning from "The unfinished boat..."? The first para is too long, the second one is too short, adding a third in between can help.
Sure, done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:51, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The restored submarine was opened to the public...": Wouldn't "The restored submarine was put on public display..." be better? Also consider using the latter phrasing in the Aftermath section?
Done on both counts. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:31, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • "and engine room aft": "and engine room at the aft", the latter looks a little wrong in naval lingo, but would help avoid WP:SEAOFBLUE. Wdyt?
I don't think so, it's just two adjacent links and at the aft isn't right. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:31, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • "After the Kingdom of Italy surrendered": rephrasing to "After the surrender of the Kingdom of Italy" would avoid SEAOFBLUE.
Done, thanks! Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:31, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • What is your policy on linking to publishers in the biblio? Some editors do link, some don't. I understand if you would not want to link to avoid SEAOFBLUE.
I generally avoid it unless it is an obscure publisher but has an article. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:31, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's all from me, cheers. Matarisvan (talk) 11:44, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Matarisvan. See what you think of my responses. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:31, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Looks good to me, happy to support. You should check if you can get @Nigel Ish to comment here, they seem to be well versed in naval history. Matarisvan (talk) 09:06, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Image and source review

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What makes tportal.hr a reliable source? Is there some background information on "Obrana i sigurnost "? I would probably capitalize the ALT text. Otherwise, all seems to check out. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:40, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

G'day Jo-Jo Eumerus. While tportal.hr is a news aggregator/portal, it is operated by Hrvatski Telekom, which has an editorial board led by Dijana Suton, formerly executive editor at Poslovni dnevnik, a well regarded Croatian business and finance newspaper. Given it is only being used for the date the sub was unveiled, I think it is fine. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:55, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Jo-Jo Eumerus, happy with this, or any further queries regarding images and sources? Thanks, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:29, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Aye, what is "Obrana i sigurnost "? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:38, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Jo-Jo Eumerus, it translates as Defence and Security, and is a Croatian not-for-profit online news outlet about those subjects and associated political goings on in Croatia and the immediate geopolitical neighbourhood. They have editorial and analyst staff, including the executive editor Lidija Knežević, who is a former political and human rights investigative reporter, and the chief analyst was up until recently on an expert panel for the Croatian parliamentary defence committee and is regularly called to provide expert opinion on defence and security matters on Croatian TV. Obris, as they are known, have been around since 2011. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 10:06, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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