Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Valley View (Romney, West Virginia)/archive2

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 23:42, 31 December 2017 [1].

Valley View (Romney, West Virginia)

Nominator(s): West Virginian (talk) 22:52, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This is my second submission of this article for FAC review. I have sufficiently addressed the issues and suggestions raised by editors during the first FAC review process for this article. Unfortunately, I was not able to address them during that review period. I am eager to receive additional guidance, and to incorporate all the suggested changes so that this article may finally attain FA status. Thank you all for taking the time to review this article for FAC! -- West Virginian (talk) 22:52, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

File:Valley_View_Romney_WV_2013_01.jpg: did the creator release the image under that specific license? Same with File:Valley_View_Romney_WV_2013_02.jpg
File:ThomasFairfax6th.jpg: source link is dead and the two license tags are redundant. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:22, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Nikkimaria, thank you so much for completing an image review for this article! The first two photographs of Valley View were provided to me by the author to share on Wikimedia Commons under the "Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported" license at that time. Please let me know if you there is any additional documentation that is needed for this. I am currently working to find the appropriate source link for the Lord Fairfax portrait black and white reproduction. What would be the appropriate license for this image? Thank you again! -- West Virginian (talk) 12:11, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

If the author explicitly released them under that license, should clarify that in the source line (and ideally provide an OTRS ticket). For the Fairfax image, the first of the two would be sufficient. Nikkimaria (talk) 13:54, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hello again, Nikkimaria! Thank you so much for your additional guidance. Regarding the Valley View photographs, I have added that both photographs are "licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported license with [the author's] expressed permission." As for the Fairfax image, I have found the same black and white reproduction of the portrait painting in a book at Google Books: Pulliam, Ted (2011). Historic Alexandria: An Illustrated History. San Antonio: Historical Pub. Network (HPN) Books. p. 9. ISBN 978-1-935377-41-2. OCLC 740815622. {{cite book}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help). If this is not permissible, then I will omit the photograph from the article. Thank you so much in advance! -- West Virginian (talk) 00:11, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Looks good, thanks. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:40, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Nikkimaria, thank you so much for your review and guidance! Please let me know if you have any other suggestions in the meantime! -- West Virginian (talk) 03:03, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Nikkimaria, please let me know if you see any other impediments that would preclude this article from receiving FA status. Thanks again for all your continued guidance! -- West Virginian (talk) 16:47, 28 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Dank

"As of 2012": The year is probably too old for "as of" at FAC.
Support on prose per my standard disclaimer. Well done. As always, feel free to revert my copyediting. These are my edits. - Dank (push to talk) 01:03, 27 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Dank, thank you so much for taking the time to complete your review and copyedit of this article. It is much appreciated. I also removed the "as of" sentence. -- West Virginian (talk) 01:25, 27 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Sources review

Ref 6: Page ranges need to be consistent; compare this (and ref 9) with ref 20
Ref 28: What makes this a high-quality reliable source?
Ref 32: Likewise this
Sources: I can't find any citations to Maxwell & Swisher
Explanatory notes; these should be cited to their sources in the normal way, i.e. using "<ref>" at the end of each note.

Otherwise sources look in good order. Brianboulton (talk) 21:15, 27 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Brianboulton, thank you for taking the time to review this article and to provide your guidance and feedback here! I am currently working to address each of your points one at a time. Reference 20 has been made consistent with References 6 and 9. -- West Virginian (talk) 01:30, 28 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Brianboulton, I've replaced the two sources questioned above with online and hardcopy newspaper articles. I also removed the Maxwell & Swisher reference. (There had previously been content sourced from Maxwell & Swisher, but it was removed during previous review processes). I attempted to fix the explanatory notes, but I am still receiving an error. Any assistance you could provide would be incredibly helpful and appreciated! I am currently working to find a solution to this. Please let me know if you have any further suggestions for edits in the meantime! -- West Virginian (talk) 03:57, 28 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I can't see, myself, what's causing the error message. Someone with a better grasp of harvard referencing should take a look. Brianboulton (talk) 15:21, 28 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Brianboulton, I was able to incorporate the explanatory notes into separate internal citations below. Please let me know if this will work. If not, I'll see if I can find an acceptable solution. In the meantime, please let me know if you have any further suggestions. Thank you again for taking the time to engage in this review, and to provide your feedback for improvement. -- West Virginian (talk) 16:43, 28 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Brianboulton, please let me know if you find the current footnote layout acceptable. Let me know if you have any questions or suggestions in the meantime, and I'll address them immediately. Thank you again for taking the time to review this article! -- West Virginian (talk) 22:51, 28 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
For the time being, leave it. It won't be a barrier to the article's promotion, though it would be good to find a better solution eventually. I have many outstanding commitments at present, and I won't be able to add to this review for the time being, although I'll keep an eye onits progress. Brianboulton (talk) 23:30, 28 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Brianboulton, I definitely understand and I thank you again for your review, and for all your efforts here! -- West Virginian (talk) 00:06, 29 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Brianboulton, I know you are busy with many other projects at the moment, but I couldn't help but excitedly let you know that I was able to find a solution to the explanatory notes issue. Please take a look whenever you are able to and let me know what you think. Thank you tremendously again for all your guidance and feedback. -- West Virginian (talk) 21:04, 1 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments and support from Gerda

Looking foward to reading, comments to come. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:59, 28 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

property: when did it belong to Fairfox?
"the Collins family": I thought I should have known them already ;)
"two-story (double) wood porch": in the lead, I'd be happy with one of the two terms.
"locally significant architecture", what does it mean, compared to "significant architecture"?
How about a hint at "registered monument" in the first paragraph, explaining why we should read. Railroad information seemed a bit off-topic to me.

Gerda Arendt, thank you so much for taking the time to review this article and offer your comments and suggestions here! I will be addressing each section at a time. The property belonged to Fairfax from 1719, when he inherited the Northern Neck Proprietary, until 1749 when the tract on which Valley View stands was purchased from Lord Fairfax by John Collins. I've added 1719 and John Collins to the lede for specificity's sake. I've also changed "two-story (double) wood porch" to "two-story wood porch." Valley View's architecture is significant in the context of its era and location, which is why it was written as "locally significant" versus "significant." I've moved its NRHP listing to the top of the lede, and removed mentions of the scenic railroad. The house is visible from the railroad, but this bit of the lede was removed several reviews ago, so I've removed the rest. Please let me know if the lede requires any additional work! -- West Virginian (talk) 21:32, 28 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, I like what you did. What I say is always just question and suggestion. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:58, 28 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Parsons

The image needs a bit of caption to explain (to someone like me who looks at images first) why it is there.
2nd para: please repeat which Parsons died.
do we have to understand "Collins Tract" when first mentioned?
"James Parsons Jr. was a farmer and cattleman who was born in Hampshire County. In her 1913 Parsons' Family History and Record, Parsons' relative (and family genealogist) Virginia Parsons MacCabe wrote about him ..." - Forgive me, but after James, I am surprises by "her". Yes, after another line we get Virginia, but can you reword that, bringing her name forward?
"In 1855, Parsons began building the present-day Valley View house, 1 mile (1.6 km) north of Romney on the Collins Tract." - I think this is missing at least a comma, after Romney, but suggest to place the position at the end.
The cost of building comes rather late ;)

Gerda Arendt, thank you again! I've removed the portrait of Lord Fairfax. I've also added the full name of James Gregg Parsons. The property became known as the Collins Tract by the Parsons family due to its previous ownership by the Collins family, and probably to differentiate it from the Parsons property at nearby Wappocomo. I added a brief explanation at its first mention. I also reworded the problematic sentence as thus: Parsons family genealogist Virginia Parsons MacCabe wrote the following description of James Parsons Jr. in her book Parsons' Family History and Record (1913): "He was square and honorable in business, and had a large circle of friends; he had the urbanity and the gentility of manner which characterizes the true gentleman". I removed "1 mile (1.6 km) north of Romney" from the last problematic sentence. Please let me know if you have an outstanding issues with this section, and thank you again for your comments! -- West Virginian (talk) 22:01, 28 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I like that as well, thank you! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:07, 28 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Harmison

"a hotel (the Virginia House)": why in brackets?
"... Charles had bought after the war. Influenced by her childhood home ...": again he-her
Harmison dies rather suddenly after the railroad interlude.
please explain what "a contemporary kitchen building" means compared to "a contemporary kitchen" (later I understand better that it's an additional building)

Gerda Arendt, I changed the first sentence to: Charles Harmison's older brother had moved to Romney, where he established and operated the Virginia House hotel. I also made several modifications to the Charles Harmison subsection, including to address the issue you mention above. The railroad was included in this section, since it is chronological and it was a further modification of the farm. I moved Harmison's death to the paragraph below. I used contemporary in this case, because the kitchen was new for its time. I also removed building from the last sentence. -- West Virginian (talk) 22:21, 28 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Exterior

I never need 4 refs for one fact.

I've fixed this so that is just three references at a maximum. -- West Virginian (talk) 22:35, 28 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Geography

why so late? - An image of the landscape earlier would help my understanding.
very sudden end ;)
any floor plan, or perhaps a hint where one can be found in the sources?

Gerda Arendt, I moved Geography section to the top and renamed it "Geography and setting." Unfortunately, I was unable to find a floor plan. Please let me know if you have any other suggestions or notice any other items that need adjusting! -- West Virginian (talk) 22:48, 28 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I enjoyed reading, thank you! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:47, 28 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Support --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:44, 28 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Gerda Arendt, thank you so much for the review, and for your support! Please let me know if you see anything else that needs to be addressed in the meantime! -- West Virginian (talk) 22:48, 28 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support from Cas Liber

Taking a look now...

~~The house at Valley View is a two-story brick Greek Revival-style structure with a rectangular architectural plan.~~ ~~- you've mentioned it's a Greek Revival residence in the first sentence, so no need to repeat.~~

Each of the original eight large rooms (of the 1855 structure) - bracketed bit redundant and can be removed

~~Reading the lead, I don't get a sense of why it's notable. any other information that can be added as to why it was placed on the register I think would be good here.~~

The Mayhew family, which owns Valley View, also owns Valley View Island - this sentence sounds like it is introducing the Mayhews...except they've already been mentioned in the previous para. Needs to be rejigged so the first mention is more of an introduction

and Lord Fairfax selected a portion of it for his manor. - why not just, "who selected a portion of it for his manor."

Charles Harmison's older brother had moved to Romney - Repetitive. I'd change to "his older brother had moved to Romney" and append to previous para as subject matter flows on.

~~I still don't get a sense of why this was heritage listed. Some embellishment of the architecture section would be good.~~

A nice read overall Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:11, 26 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Cas Liber, thank you so tremendously for taking the time to perform this review and provide your valuable feedback and suggestions here. I addressed all your comments in the article's prose, and would like to see if my rewriting has hit the mark. Please let me know if there are any outstanding issues with this article, and I will address those as expediently as possible. Thank you also for your kind words regarding the article--I am so glad you enjoyed reading it! -- West Virginian (talk) 03:53, 26 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, am content now on comprehensiveness and prose. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 02:45, 27 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Support on prose Comments by Finetooth

Nicely written and thorough. I made a small number of minor edits as I went; please revert any you think are misguided. Here are a few more suggestions:

Lead

¶2 "His wife Elizabeth Smith Harmison, inspired by her childhood Virginia home Western View and the scenic South Branch Potomac River views, named the farm Valley View." - Unless he had more than one wife, "Elizabeth Smith Harrison" should be set off in commas. Western View should be set off in commas as well.
¶2 "Following a series of owners, the property was purchased by the Mayhew family in 1979." – Grammar. Suggestion: "The most recent of a series of owners, the Mayhew family bought the property in 1979."

Finetooth, I've added commas as suggested and I've also re-worded the sentence regarding the Mayhew family's ownership. Please let me know if this works, and if you have any other suggestions for this section. Thanks again! -- West Virginian (talk) 15:22, 31 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

History

~~Rather than repeating "ownership" in the four subheads in this section, I'd consider deleting the word "ownership" from all but the first.~~

Finetooth, wonderful suggestion and done! -- West Virginian (talk) 15:22, 31 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Harmison family ownership

¶3 ~~"brought his wife Carrie Belle Fox (1870–1953)" – Commas around "Carrie Belle Fox (1870–1953)" unless George had more than one wife.~~

Finetooth, another wonderful suggestion and done! -- West Virginian (talk) 15:22, 31 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Mayhew family ownership

¶1 "The tract on which the Valley View residence is located currently measures 6.63 acres (2.68 ha)." - Flip to active voice and tighten? Suggestion: "The Valley View residence lies on a 6.63-acre (2.68 ha) tract."
¶3 ~~"...to survey and document its architecture and history...". – Vague. Replace "its" with "the structures' "?~~

Finetooth, I concur with both and have incorporated these suggestions. -- West Virginian (talk) 15:22, 31 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Exterior

¶2 "...four nine-over-six double-hung wooden sashes on the first story..." – Add a note or a link explaining "nine-over-six" and similar terms? I think nine-over-six means nine panes in the upper sash and six panes in the lower. Yes? No?

Finetooth, you are indeed correct! This may make for a great sourced footnote. Let me work on addressing this before I continue with the rest of my responses. Standby. -- West Virginian (talk) 15:22, 31 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Finetooth, I've added a footnote with three references describing and defining the components and technical terms of sash windows mentioned within the prose. Please let me know if this will require any additional elaboration. Thank so much again for addressing this! -- West Virginian (talk) 16:39, 31 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Interior

~~"Although the house's foundation is low, the height of the interior walls and the full-sized attic make it appear tall from the outside." – Clarify what "it" refers to, the house or the foundation?~~

Finetooth, thank you for this catch! The it refers to the house, and I have clarified this in the sentence per your suggestion. -- West Virginian (talk) 16:39, 31 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

General

~~The Wappocomo image needs alt text.~~
~~There are a few duplicate links; e.g., board-and-batten, smokehouse, and ice house in the "Architecture" section and linked again in "Kitchen addition" and "Ancillary structures".~~
No problems with disambiguation.
No dead URLs.

Finetooth, I've added alt text to the Wappocomo image so please let me know if this is satisfactory. I have also de-linked the duplicate links. Thank you again for a thorough and comprehensive review of this article, and please let me know if you see anything else that is outstanding and needs to be fixed! Thanks again! -- West Virginian (talk) 16:39, 31 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

That's all. Finetooth (talk) 04:06, 31 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Finetooth, thank you tremendously for your review and suggestions. I am reviewing them as we speak and will respond once I am finished! Thanks again, and Happy New Year's Eve! -- West Virginian (talk) 15:12, 31 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Everything you adjusted looks good to me now, and I made a few more minor changes that you may want to review. Switching to support on prose. Nicely done article. Finetooth (talk) 17:05, 31 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Finetooth, thank you so much for taking this time, especially on New Year's Eve, to thoroughly review this article and provide such thoughtful guidance. Please let me know if you have any further guidance. Your subsequent edits work perfectly. -- West Virginian (talk) 19:40, 31 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Happy New Year. Finetooth (talk) 23:01, 31 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Ian Rose (talk) 23:42, 31 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.