Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Tupac Shakur/archive1
====Nomination Withdrawn==== SqlPac
I am nominating this article because its quality has been greatly improved since its previous review, thanks to the thorough and exhaustive efforts of the community of contributors. It is well-sourced, re-formatted, re-organized, re-edited and all images have had Fair Use rationales added. It will make an excellent starting point for any research projects into the life of the highly controversial and popular subject of the article, rapper Tupac Amaru Shakur. Notes: I am a contributor to the Tupac Shakur article and a prior version of this article was submitted as a featured article candidate. SqlPac 01:11, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
*Weak Object Good article, but the gallery of album covers has to be removed as fair use doesn't count in that case --Jaranda wat's sup 01:33, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
- Support concern is met, good article, but I do agree with Tuf-Kat on the referncing sections. --Jaranda wat's sup 20:20, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
- Removed gallery of album covers.SqlPac 17:07, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
Object paragraphs too short and the album covers need to go.Not part of my objection, but I think the table about the albums/stuff released after his death is excessive.Just another star in the night T | @ | C 01:44, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
- Album covers gone. Combined paragraphs to make them longer.SqlPac
- He did release more than twice as much material after death than before death, so any complete discography will reflect a large number of items. I have combined all "while living" and "posthumous" listings into single listings that do not differentiate.SqlPac 20:44, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
- Well done, it looks like a pretty decent article now. Take care of TUF-KAT's criticisms and you'll have my support as well. Just another star in the night T | @ | C 23:37, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
ObjectThe gallery has got to go. Wikipedia is supposed to be a free content encyclopedia; large groups of gratuitous non-free images don't further that goal.
- Gallery gone.SqlPac 17:07, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
The album covers scattered throughout the article should be removed. There's no discussion of any of the covers, and decorative use of non-free images is not permitted under Wikipedia's fair use policy.
- The 2 - 3 album covers scattered throughtout the article were being used as a reference to the albums that were being discussed in the sections in which they appeared. They are now removed.SqlPac 17:07, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
Either Image:2Pac2.jpg or Image:2pac-diamond.jpeg needs to be removed. There's no reason to use two non-free images of someone when one will do.
- Removed 2pac-diamond.jpeg publicity photo.SqlPac 17:07, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
The image Image:2pac-diamond.jpeg has no source information.
- Removed.SqlPac 17:07, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
- Object, though it's shaping up fairly nicely.
- More inline citations. "Style and influences" is completely without them; "Legacy" needs more, anything that purports to know Shakur's mind needs a citation (e.g. "Post-prison")
Trim the TOC considerably (splitting discog. into living and posthumous is not necessary, I think, and if the notable features are so notable, they should be in the body of the article and if not, link to a subarticle like List of Tupac Shakur collaborations).
- Some of the notable features were mentioned in the body of the article, though not all of them. The Notable Features section has been removed. Living and posthumous splitting of discography, etc., has been eliminated. The listings do not now differentiate between material released while living and that released after his death.SqlPac 20:44, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
- Looks better. Tuf-Kat 20:50, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
- Some of the notable features were mentioned in the body of the article, though not all of them. The Notable Features section has been removed. Living and posthumous splitting of discography, etc., has been eliminated. The listings do not now differentiate between material released while living and that released after his death.SqlPac 20:44, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
- For a subject like Tupac, I'd really like to see some more scholarly sources. Almost all of the sources appear to be web articles, mostly newspapers and the like. The only two print sources are one biography and one of what appears to be a tell-all about his murder. This isn't enough to place such a major figure in his historical and social context -- for some performers, it might be adequate, but Tupac needs more.
- So that other readers of this don't misunderstand and automatically believe we sourced a bunch of "fan sites", I'd like to list some of the online sources used in the article here: 1) The BBC News website, 2) The Harvard Gazette, 3) U.C.-Berkeley Graduate School of Journalism online paper, 4) BET website, 5) MTV2 website, 6) AOL Music website, 7) 2PacLegacy (the official TASF website). Additionally, the following print sources were used: 1) The New York Times, 2) The San Francisco Chronicle, 3) Tupac:Resurrection, 4) LAbyrinth. The "tell-all" about his murder was used as a source for information about ... well, his murder. In addition, Tupac interviews with renowned hip-hop reporter Davey D were used. SqlPac 20:44, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
- My point is not that the current references are bad, just that they are insufficient. The article does not adequately place Tupac in a historical and social context, and I don't think that can be remedied using the current array of sources. Find some scholarly works on hip hop, American pop culture, etc and incorporate their thoughts on Tupac. Tuf-Kat 20:49, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
- I thank you for your comments and point of view. The contributors to the Tupac Shakur article discussed the Harvard Conference, and some of the dozen or so scholars and professors in attendance who placed Tupac in a historical and social context. Using the article as a starting point for research into Tupac will lead those interested in the scholarly aspects of his life to purchase those academic papers. I would propose that a full academic treatment of Tupac Shakur which speculates on the proper historical and social context of his life and work would consume an entire article unto itself, and would expand an article discussing the simple facts of his life and work (like this one) to at least double its current size. In fact, looking at previous edits of the article, one can see that there was an expanded summary of the works put forth at the Harvard Conference alone which exploded the article to nearly 50% larger than its current 40+ KB size. SqlPac 16:09, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
- Tupac's of sufficient importance he could and probably should have subarticle(s). The Harvard Conference is insufficient -- this article needs to explain in what ways Emmett Price believes Tupac is a "trickster", for example, and please define or link "organic intellectual". The sentence "Still other renowned academics spoke of Shakur's impact on entertainment, race relations, politics and the "hero/martyr" status to which he was elevated by fans after his death." is far too vague and begs the question of how the reader could learn something about this topic. Tuf-Kat 01:55, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
- I added a bunch of stuff. At this point I'd prefer to just withdraw the nomination. What's the procedure for that? SqlPac 02:19, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
- Tupac's of sufficient importance he could and probably should have subarticle(s). The Harvard Conference is insufficient -- this article needs to explain in what ways Emmett Price believes Tupac is a "trickster", for example, and please define or link "organic intellectual". The sentence "Still other renowned academics spoke of Shakur's impact on entertainment, race relations, politics and the "hero/martyr" status to which he was elevated by fans after his death." is far too vague and begs the question of how the reader could learn something about this topic. Tuf-Kat 01:55, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
- I thank you for your comments and point of view. The contributors to the Tupac Shakur article discussed the Harvard Conference, and some of the dozen or so scholars and professors in attendance who placed Tupac in a historical and social context. Using the article as a starting point for research into Tupac will lead those interested in the scholarly aspects of his life to purchase those academic papers. I would propose that a full academic treatment of Tupac Shakur which speculates on the proper historical and social context of his life and work would consume an entire article unto itself, and would expand an article discussing the simple facts of his life and work (like this one) to at least double its current size. In fact, looking at previous edits of the article, one can see that there was an expanded summary of the works put forth at the Harvard Conference alone which exploded the article to nearly 50% larger than its current 40+ KB size. SqlPac 16:09, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
- My point is not that the current references are bad, just that they are insufficient. The article does not adequately place Tupac in a historical and social context, and I don't think that can be remedied using the current array of sources. Find some scholarly works on hip hop, American pop culture, etc and incorporate their thoughts on Tupac. Tuf-Kat 20:49, 15 April 2006 (UTC)