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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by David Fuchs via FACBot (talk) 6 September 2024 [1].

Suicidal Tour

[edit]
Nominator(s): – Hilst (talk | contribs) 22:21, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about a tour undertaken by a Brazilian football club which quickly spiraled into chaos, becoming more and more unbelievable as it goes on. My first FAC! – Hilst (talk | contribs) 22:21, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support from PMC

[edit]

Within the week, badger me if I forget. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 01:12, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well, slow night at work, so here we are. Please don't be freaked out by the number of comments, I write down everything that comes to mind when reading FACs. Suggested re-phrasings are always suggestions, feel free to do your own thing. If sources don't have info that I'm asking about, don't worry about it. Finally, I'm always open to discussion or disagreement - you're the one who knows the content, and FAC reviewers aren't infallible. And away we go!

Lead

  • "looking to raise funds in friendly matches" - phrasing a bit odd here. Maybe "playing friendly matches to raise funds" or "playing friendly matches as a fundraiser"?
    Picked the first phrasing.
  • Nice use of "who knows what the truth is" footnote :)
    Thanks! :)
  • Sentence two is so, so long. Can it be split?
    Split into two, let me know if it needs to be split further.
  • "misfortune, danger, and tragedy" - this feels a bit like over-egging the pudding. Can we pick one?
    Went with misfortune.
  • Might link Nazism in Brazil since otherwise it's likely to be confusing (or maybe Brazil in World War II)
    Went with Brazil in World War II.

Natal

  • Any details about what the financial crisis was or why it was happening? (Was it related to WW2?)
    Added.
  • Link North Region again
    Done.
  • For the ignorant among us, how would playing exhibition matches make them money?
    I assume it was through ticket revenue, but none of the sources actually spell it out.
    There's nothing more funny yet annoying than running into a situation like that, where every source is like "obviously everyone will know what a blorbo is, I don't have to explain" and then it turns no one knows what the damn blorbo is because no one explained it
  • Recommend linking Brazil in World War II and maybe noting that German U-boats were patrolling the area, because many people might not realize they were
    Linked.
  • Actually, the above three suggestions might fit well in a "Background" section (and you could give some brief background on the team)
    Created the background section.
    Looking good! (years ago I got taught to do Background sections and I've found it's such a help with setting up the rest of the prose)
  • Is Santa Cruz from Pernambuco? I assume yes, but it's not clear - they could just be visiting there. Good fodder for the background section
    Yes. Added to background section.
  • "local state's team" - no link I guess?
    Nope, not even an interlanguage link. :(
  • Might want to clarify that Belem is a city, and add the state
    Added the state.
  • I don't think "by" is needed when you're giving a whole-game score. You don't "win by" 7-2, you win 7-2, and win by 5 points. See what I mean?
    Removed the "by"s.
  • Why is Remo 5 to 3 when everything else is given with a dash? Consistency is important
    Dash'd.
  • Might be worth clarifying that all those teams are based in the city of Belém, as that's not clear from context
    Added. Doesn't read too smoothly imo, but it works.
  • Are there no details in any sourcing about any of these games?
    There's some small details about them in modern sources, but definitely not anything substantial. Contemporary sources have some more stuff, but I'm not if in-game details really matter that much here, since the article is more about the overarching story than anything.
    Ah, just checking, in case any of them had any disastrous incidents :P

Manaus

  • Again, might want to clarify that Manaus is a city, and add the state
    Done.
  • Do we know who invited them?
    Clarified in background section.
  • Was the head of delegation a player also, or like a coach?
    Clarified in background section.
  • I know we don't always link countries, but I think Peru and Guyana are reasonably relevant links here
    Done.
  • Link Ministry of Foreign Affairs (Brazil)
    Done.
  • I know the answer is likely WW2, but why were clubs not supposed to leave?
    Added.
  • "Under the possibility of being suspended for 90 days" - phrasing a bit awkward here
    • Suspended from what?
      I don't know, none of the sources elaborate on what the "suspension" would be.
    • If they can be suspended for leaving, it's not really a request not to leave, is it?
      Clarified, hopefully.
    • I might suggest moving the suspension to the previous sentence, or rewording a bit
      Reworded.
  • "relapsed from the dysentery" - "had a relapse of dysentery" is more correct
    Done.
  • Are first names known for King and Papeira? If so, please include them on first mention; if not, maybe footnote it (if a roster is known, it might be worth putting one in a table in Background)
    I couldn't find Papeira's first name anywhere. Including only King's name is kind of awkward in my opinion, so I'd rather not add it. Added the roster.
    Fair. You may want to footnote somewhere about names being unknown/the one-word-nickname tradition thing
    Done.
  • "both having disobeyed previous medical orders" about what?
    Added.
    To be fair I'm not sure I could restrain myself from eating eggs and lobster either
  • "but all maritime travel was prohibited by the Brazilian government" - since when? they were boating before, no?
    Added date.

Belém

  • "Defender Pedrinho" first name thing again
  • Did Pedrinho still get to play in the game?
    I'm not sure if he did play against Remo, but he did play against Paisandu on the 9th. Added.
  • "was also a club director, and was interested in the player's abilities." - so... he was going to arrest him then seduce him into joining his own team?
    Correct!
    • I'm dying to know how he thought that was going to go, loooool
  • "Sidinho, who had defected to the club a week earlier" - who is Sidinho? What is "the club" that he defected to?
    Added him to the roster at the top (confusingly, there's two players named Sidinho, and sources don't agree on how to spell their names...). "To the club" is a typo, it should've just been "defected the club". Rewrote the whole sentence.
  • "The club then played..." I would flip the clauses in this sentence and remove "then"
    Done? I'll be honest, I'm not happy with either version
    • Fair, I think it works better this way but if you want to change it another way it won't affect my support
  • "before the end of the game" could tighten to "during the game"; similarly "After the end of the match" could be tightened to "After the match"
    Done.
  • commemorated - I think you might want commiserated instead
    Done.
  • "the Taça Cidade de Recife" - the what
    Translated "taça" to "trophy".
    • Sure, but what's the trophy for? I thought these were largely exhibition matches?
      Clarified.
  • "starting the journey back" via? And if by boat, when did the government stop prohibiting maritime travel? (or are we riverboating here)
    Via boat. No idea when they started allowing it again.
    Is it possible to try to track this down? It's just that it sort of presents a thread that can be pulled on. If you can't find it, that's fine.
    No dice.
  • Were the trophies valuable in and of themselves?
    Probably? Since they went out of their way to hide them, they probably had some value, but I can't verify it.
  • "boat was retained" - I think you want detained
    I think either one works, see wikt:reter#Portuguese.
    Sure but we're not writing in Portuguese; "retain" in English lacks implication of legal matters that "detain" has.
    Done.
  • for the Campeonato Pernambucano - context? Even if you just say "the state championship, the Campeonato Pernambucano"
    Done.

Okay! Overall I think this is a well-researched and interesting article. It could use some polishing to get to the FA level, but it's definitely doable and I look forward to seeing it get there. No rush on responses. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 05:49, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Premeditated Chaos: I've addressed all of your comments. Thank you for checking my article! – Hilst (talk | contribs) 22:24, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Hilst:, responses to a few things above, anything not commented on looks fine to me. The question about the value of the trophies has no response - possibly missed? ♠PMC♠ (talk) 05:09, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oh my god, I have no idea how I missed that. Sorry! Unless I've missed something else, @Premeditated Chaos, it's done! sorry for the pings too lmao – Hilst (talk | contribs) 20:32, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Looks good to me. I'm a support :) ♠PMC♠ (talk) 20:25, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Joeyquism

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Committing to a review in the next couple of days. Congratulations on the successful GAN for this, and welcome to FAC! joeyquism (talk) 01:33, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Hilst: Apologies for taking so long to get to this. The article seems to be in pretty good shape after the preliminary reviews before mine; however, for the sake of being comprehensive, I've noted a few things below. Feel free to refuse with justification:

Lead

  • The introduction of the term "Suicidal Tour" in the lead feels a bit late. From MOS:BOLDLEAD:
If an article's title is a formal or widely accepted name for the subject, display it in bold as early as possible in the first sentence:
The electron is a subatomic particle with a negative elementary electric charge. (Electron)
Otherwise, include the title if it can be accommodated in a natural way:
The United States presidential line of succession is the order in which officials of the United States ... (United States presidential line of succession)
Perhaps the lead paragraph can have its sentences rearranged and reformatted so that the first sentence refers explicitly to this term? Otherwise, do not fret too much about this critique; I haven't seen it mentioned in other reviewers' comments, so unless that becomes a point of contention, I will not base my final stance on this entirely. Leaving this as a suggestion.
I thought similar. I have put a proposed draft lead on the talk page of this FAC. Gog the Mild (talk) 19:50, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm liking what you've proposed as a solution. joeyquism (talk) 21:14, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Done.
  • Not sure if "Brazilian Portuguese" needs to be included before "Excursão da Morte".
    Removed.
  • No comma before "due"?
    Not needed with the new lead.
  • I'm noticing that Brazil in World War II is linked here; however, it does not appear to be linked anywhere else in the article. Would this be appropriate as a replacement for World War II link in the Background section?
    I think that link would be a bit too MOS:EGGy for my taste.

Background

  • I'm a bit confused by "subsist off of their suburban football fields" - is there something about the quality of these fields that using them would be seen as subsistence? Sorry if this is a silly question; I'm mostly just wondering. Feel free to tell me if answering does not seem worthwhile.
    They were subsisting off the revenue from leasing them to other people/clubs. Changed it to "subsist off of the revenue from their suburban football fields".
  • What is meant by "buying" here? I'm not into the euphemistic use of words in articles; a clarification would be much better.
    Buying as in paying Transviário so that they would play a few matches against Santa Cruz. Feel free to suggest a reword, I can't think of anything. Removed the quotes around buying.
  • The semicolon after "players" should be a colon, as it's coming before a list
    Done.

Natal and Belém

  • Would it be worth it to mention that this was a relatively untroubled time for the team during their tour? Just an observation; if sourcing for such a claim is not possible, I'd say it's alright to go without it.
    No source says this as far as I can tell, sorry.
  • No double link for Pernambuco; it's linked in the previous section.
    Already done.
  • No comma after "lights off"
    Done.
  • No comma after "3-3"
    That one was added by Gog, btw. Done.

Manaus

  • "Thrice" is a bit of an outdated word; "three times" should be good
    Done.
  • "as they were "attracted by good offers" from local teams - Not sure about the quotes again. Is this quote lifted from the sources, or is there some larger situation that is being euphemized by this phrase?
    Lifted from Aragão 1979.
  • "two players had a relapse of dysentery" - Did they get dysentery again, or did their health deteriorate as a result of having a sustained case of dysentery? Just wondering.
    The latter, I assume.

Belém to Recife

  • "doing evil to a 17-year-old girl" - Same issues as other noted usages of quotes.
    It's a quote from Aragão 1979, who lifted it straight from the mentioned telegram. Rewrote the proceeding sentence slightly so it's easier to determine where it came from. (Also moved the source up since that got left behind in a rewrite.)
  • For footnote D, "Some sources incorrectly report the date as 3 March." - Is this known to be incorrect, or is there simply a discrepancy between sources (there is a difference)? If it's the latter, I would remove "incorrectly".
    It's the latter. Done.
  • No comma after "Cidade do Recife trophy"
    Done.
  • Is there an aftermath/legacy to all of this? Might be a big ask to include, but if there's information/analysis on this tour's impact, I think it would be worth it to include in the article.
    I don't think there is anything out there detailing it's legacy.

Overall, a very nice article on an interesting (albeit tragic) topic. I'll read over it again after my comments have been addressed. Looking forward to hearing back from you, and I hope you're having a wonderful start to your week. joeyquism (talk) 00:32, 13 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Joeyquism: All done! Sorry for taking so long to answer your comments, oops. – Hilst (talk | contribs) 21:51, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Hilst: Looking a lot better! Happy to support this for promotion. joeyquism (talk) 23:45, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

[edit]
  • Link football in the lead, so we know exactly which sport we are talking about
    Done.
  • In the lead you have "friendly match" (unlinked) but in the body you have "exhibition match" (linked).
    Swapped the links and renamed the second instance to friendly.
    Both should be linked -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:23, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Done.
  • "including a lack of funds, the threat of Nazi attacks and deaths" => "including a lack of funds, the threat of Nazi attacks, and deaths"
    Done.
  • Link the club again in the body (and also show full name, like in the lead)
    Done.
  • "where they beat Transviário Esporte Clube 7–2, Tuna Luso 3–1" => "where they beat Transviário Esporte Clube 7–2 and Tuna Luso 3–1"
    Done.
  • "drew with the Pará state team 3–3, 4–4 with Paysandu" => "drew 3–3 with the Pará state team and 4–4 with Paysandu"
    Done.
  • "While the team's delegation intended for the matches in Belém to be the last ones of the excursion" => "Although the team's delegation intended for the matches in Belém to be the last ones of the excursion"
    Done.
  • "they lost their first game in Amazonas to Olímpico by 3–2" => "they lost their first game in Amazonas 3–2 to Olímpico"
    Done.
  • "the head of delegation and six players" => "the head of the delegation and six players"
    Done.
  • "Defender Pedrinho was sent an arrest warrant" - I am pretty sure that arrest warrants are not sent to the suspect. Maybe "An arrest warrant was issued for defender Pedrinho"
    Fixed.
  • "being accused of "doing evil to a 17-year-old girl"" => "as he was accused of "doing evil to a 17-year-old girl""
    Done.
  • "It turned out that the police officer who ordered his arrest was also a club director" - which club?
    No idea, none of the sources mention it by name.
  • "Santa Cruz entering the field before a game in Belém." - this doesn't need a full stop
    Removed.
  • Do we really need the exact time of King's death and (particularly) funeral? If you feel we do, I think they should be shown using the 12-hour clock i.e. 2.35am and 4.00pm
    Removed the funeral time. I believe the 24-hour format is more appropriate here, since that's the one that is used in Brazil.
  • "At 16:30,[16] before the end of the game" => "At 4.30pm,[16] before the end of the game"
    See above.
  • "but had to return to São Luís due a thunderstorm" => "but had to return to São Luís due to a thunderstorm"
    Fixed.
  • "The players then decided to go to Teresina, Piauí, via train" => "The players then decided to go to Teresina, Piauí, by train"
    Done.
  • "Papeira's briefcase was given to his family, but King's briefcase could not be returned" - just a guess as I can't read the source but I suspect they were suitcases rather than briefcases
    Done.

-- ChrisTheDude (talk) 16:17, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@ChrisTheDude: Done all, thanks for commenting! – Hilst (talk | contribs) 22:24, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
More comments
[edit]
  • "buying a five-game season for five million Brazilian réis per match" - what does this mean? They had to pay 25 million reis to undertake the tour? Would that not make their finances worse rather than better?
    In the short-term, yes, but I assume the revenue they got from those first few matches was enough to cover the costs.
  • "it took two weeks for the squad to arrive to the state of Amazonas" => "it took two weeks for the squad to arrive in the state of Amazonas"
    Done.
  • "Three players, Cidnho, Omar and França" - first name seems to be spelt wrong
    Fixed.
  • "Papeira played barefoot" - when? This section seems to be describing a journey and doesn't reference any matches
    I don't know. None of the sources say when.
  • "He would play for Santa Cruz shortly after" => "He would play for Santa Cruz shortly afterwards"
    Done.
  • "Santa Cruz suffered their first casualty shortly after" => "Santa Cruz suffered their first casualty shortly afterwards"
    Done.

-- ChrisTheDude (talk) 16:53, 25 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@ChrisTheDude: All done! – Hilst (talk | contribs) 19:58, 25 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Gog the Mild

[edit]

Recusing to review.

  • "they played over 25 matches". Is the exact number of matches played not known? Ok, one needs to read the unobtrusive note. Suggest 'they played either 26 or 28 matches'.
  • PS. The lead is meant to be a summary of the main article, but I can't see this mentioned in the latter.
I think you missed this one.
Oops. I'm a bit confused by this suggestion: should I add they played either 26 or 28 matches to the main article or should I change the note to say that?
IMO this important enough to be included in the lead - your suggestion works - rather than buried in a note. Gog the Mild (talk) 14:56, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Done.
  • Leads are not usually cited, as they are summaries of the main articles, which will be cited.
    Removed.
  • "and had to subsist off of their football grounds". I don't understand how their grounds (why plural?) helped them financially.
    I assume it was through leasing them to third parties. Changed wording so its closer to what's said in the source.
  • "and the monthly payments from their associates." What associates? I mean, are we even talking people or organisations? And why were they paying money to the club?
    People. Associates in this case are fans who pay a monthly/annual fee for benefits like discounted ticket prices and merchandise. Check out the second paragraph of Sports club § Organization
When I ask a question I am not asking it for my benefit, but for that of future readers. You have given a fine succinct explanation in answer to my query, along with a link. Could it be incorporated in line in the article?
I think incorporating it inline makes the paragraph too clunky. I've trimmed the explanation down a bit and added it as a note.
  • "Santa Cruz's directors decided to take a "quick spin" in the North Region". Why the colloquialism and the unattributed quote? 'take a short tour' would be more encyclopedic.
    It's a quote from Aragão 1979. Replaced.
When quoting, bear in mind the MoS on quotations: "[t]he source must be named in article text if the quotation is an opinion". Emphasis in original.
  • Who or what were "Transviário Esporte Clube"?
    Clarified.
  • "The tour started at the height of World War II". What does at the height of mean. Perhaps 'in the middle of'.
    Done.
  • "Due to fears of possible Nazi submarine attacks". Replace "Nazi" with 'German'.
    Done.
  • "Afterwards, Santa Cruz traveled to" → 'Afterwards, the delegation traveled to'.
    Done.
  • "Although the team's delegation intended for the matches in Belém". Suggest deleting "for".
    Done.
  • "The club left for Manaus on 25 January". I suggest you stick with "delegation" throughout.
    Done.
  • In the first paragraph of the Manaus section I suggest that you make it clear that they were travelling up the Amazon River.
    Done.
  • "both having disobeyed the medical orders." What were the medical orders, and in what way were they disobeyed?
    They're defined in the previous paragraph. Clarified.
  • "Santa Cruz intended to return ..." This reads oddly. Firstly, in what way is the football club synonymous with the delegation; secondly, I don't see how a football club is capable of intentionality, this is usually reserved for people.
    Changed to delegation.
  • A map of Brazil showing the key places mentioned would greatly help.
    Costa 2020 has such a map, but I don't know its copyright status. I could make a free map, but I have no experience with this sort of thing.
Oh the fun I had (not) doing maps for my first two FACs! So I left myself some notes and a couple of examples at User:Gog the Mild/Misc#Maps. I have added the start of a Brazil map at the bottom - see how good to you I am. The map documentation is at Template:Location map many. The Wikipedia article on each location has its coordinates at the top right, click to get a conversion to decimal. You should be able to take it from there to fill in the other locations. Have fun and shout if you have queries.
Lol, thanks. Done.
Perhaps add the location of Santa Cruz's home ground? Gog the Mild (talk) 13:28, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Done.
  • "An arrest warrant was sent for defender Pedrinho". What do you mean by "was sent for"?
    They received a telegram from Manaus ordering his arrest. Rewrote sentence.
  • "the police officer who ordered his arrest was also a club director". Of which club? Santa Cruz?
    Not mentioned in sources.
  • "Santa Cruz suffered their first casualty shortly thereafter". Suggest 'Santa Cruz suffered their first casualty shortly after'.
    Done.
  • "being accompanied by a large crowd." Suggest deleting "being".
    Done.
  • "Due to King's death, Cidinho, who had defected from Santa Cruz a week earlier, returned to the club." Who was Cidinho, why did he "defect", what does "defect" mean here, and why did King's death cause him to return?
    A player; he left so he could join another club in Manaus, see the last paragraph of the Manaus section; defect as in abandon (wording used in a source, can change if needed); I don't know.
How come we know that Cidinho returned "due" to King's death, but not why? It seems odd and reads very oddly.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Costa 2020 only says: Because of his teammate's death, Sidinho gave up on leaving the delegation and going to play in Manaus. I agree that it's quite odd. I can remove it if you want me to.
Bleh! How would you feel about replacing "due" with 'after'? Thus removing guesses at Cidinhos's motivation.
Done.
  • "A minute of silence was held before the match." It would be more usual to say 'A minute of silence was observed before the match.'
    Done.
  • What is "the Cidade do Recife trophy"?
    I believe its just a random tournament Paysandu made up for a symbolic gift. The source says that "the Paysandu board [offered] the club the Cidade do Recife Trophy, played between those two great clubs and which ended in a draw for each team."
  • "substituting for an injured teammate." The cook won't have been a teammate of the injured player. Better to say something like 'injured member of the delegation'.
    I think "substituting for an injured player" is the best option here.
Yes, that works.
  • "The players returned to playing football on 2 May". "returned to"? They had just played 26/28 matches.
    Changed.
  • You state it is disputed whether 26 or 28 matches were played, then list every one. Which two are disputed?
    Not every match is listed. I don't know which ones are disputed, Aragão 1979 doesn't list all of them.

Gog the Mild (talk) 22:06, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • At the moment "The tour became known as the Suicidal Tour (Brazilian Portuguese: Excursão Suicída) and the Death Tour (Brazilian Portuguese: Excursão da Morte)" is in the lead, the summary, but I don't see anything in the main article to be so summarised. Am I missing something? Gog the Mild (talk) 19:59, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm not really sure how that should be included in the article. It feels out of place in "Belém to Recife", and it doesn't really merit it's own section.
Putting it at the end of Belém to Recife seems ok to me. Or retitle the section. (Return home and aftermath?) The number of matches they played also needs to go in somewhere.
After combing through sources, I couldn't find anything about how it became known as that. I don't think that info is really needed anymore since the lead got reworded. Added the match number.
A couple more come backs. Gog the Mild (talk) 14:56, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Gog the Mild: Done! – Hilst (talk | contribs) 17:52, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

source review from sawyer777

[edit]

an interesting topic and it looks like no one's done a source review yet, so i'll do one this weekend probably. ... sawyer * he/they * talk 04:19, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

alright, getting to it.

  • the sources seem perfectly reliable for this topic; we've got some sports publications and good Brazilian newspapers.
  • Guedes (2023) probably does not need to be a shortened footnote if it's not paginated/sectioned.
    Turned into full ref.
  • not all citations have ISSNs - where they're available, this is useful info to add & will make the cites more consistent.
    Done.
  • all of the sources are in Brazilian Portuguese, so i'll be relying on machine translation for spot-checks. if any Lusophones happen upon this page and take issue with my assessment, i defer to them.
  • spot-check as of this revision:
    • ref 2a - good
    • ref 5b - good
    • ref 11a - good
    • ref 15c - good
    • ref 23e - good

i will continue combing through in case i notice anything else. ... sawyer * he/they * talk 22:04, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Sawyer777: Sorry for bothering you, but do you have any further comments? – Hilst (talk | contribs) 10:37, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
no worries - no, i don't think i have any other comments. support on sourcing. ... sawyer * he/they * talk 21:55, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
SC

As I watched Santa Cruz play a few times when I lived in Recife, it's great to see them at FAC - comments to follow shortly. - SchroCat (talk) 09:48, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lead
  • This is really short and doesn't really do the article justice. There's a lot of information that could be used to give a more complete picture of the tour.
    Expanded a bit.
  • You need to identify where SC were from. At the moment, people have to get into the body to find out one of the key bits of information about the team.
    Done.
  • The image is great, but I think you should make it a bit easier to identify the two dead players, as the two crosses aren't terribly clear. Highlighting, (such as like this) would work. (This is a suggestion only, but it's worth thinking about)
    @SchroCat: I agree. Should I trace over the crosses to make them more clear or should the two players be highlighted like in the linked pic? I'm asking since I couldn't find a high-resolution unmarked version, and having two identification bits seems a bit overkill for me. – Hilst (talk | contribs) 14:14, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Your choice. You can either circle, or maybe make the crosses red - as it's a B&W photo, the colour should make it clear for most people. - SchroCat (talk) 14:30, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I've made the crosses red. It's my first time editing an image for an article, so let me know if I did something wrong. – Hilst (talk | contribs) 01:30, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Background
  • "The club had poor performances" is a slightly cumbersome (and misleading!) sentence. May be worth rephrasing slightly as:

The team were performing poorly, and the club owed wages to several of its staff, and had to subsist off the revenue from their suburban football fields and the monthly payments from their associates.[c][4]

  • Done.
  • "Santa Cruz's directors" -> "The club's directors"
    Done.
  • "tour in the North Region" -> "tour of the North Region"
    Done.
  • "participate in" -> "play"
    Done.
  • As with the comments below, I also don't understand "buying a five-game season for five million Brazilian réis per match" – you may need to clarify this a little
    Reworded.
Natal and Belém
  • For WP:ACCESS compliance, the caption should read "Santa Cruz's home city of Recife is marked with a blue dot."
    Done.
  • "against the local state's team" -> "against the state team". (I presume this either doesn't exist any more, or was a 'special' team made up of the best of the other local teams?)
    Done. I believe that it was the latter.
  • "Afterwards, the delegation traveled" -> "The delegation then traveled" (they couldn't have travelled before or during)
    Done.
Manaus
  • "plenty of fruits and vegetables" -> "plenty of fruit and vegetables"
    Done.
  • You need to show a conversion for the nautical miles. Use {{convert|10|nmi|km mi|spell=in}}, which gives you "ten nautical miles (19 km; 12 mi)"
    Done.
Belém to Recife
  • "to gather more money" -> "to earn money"
    Done.
  • "The story was fake, and the player was never arrested". You've already said the story was fake, so no need to repeat that, unless you turn it to: "As the accusation was falsified, the player was never arrested"
    Reworded.
  • I think you can upscale the picture a bit – add upright=1.2| to the markup to get it to a better size
    Done.
  • King's death: do we need to know the time? I think we can just stick with the date here.
    Removed.
  • "At 16:30,[21]": I dislike citations so early in a sentence, partly because they distract readers, but partly because all this is supporting is the fact that the time 16:30 happened: it doesn't support that the news broke at this time (that's all in the next set of citations at the end of the sentence). This should be moved to the end to join the others.
    Done.
  • "ship's cook as a player, substituting for an injured player" -> "ship's cook, substituting for an injured player" – no loss of comprehension and avoids the double 'player'
    Done.
  • "presence of German submarines in the sea": you don't need the last three words (where else would they be?)
    Done.
  • "either 26,[1] or 28 matches": that comma isn't needed
    Done.
Citations
  • Is there a reason you've provided a translation for some of the BrPort sources (FNs 6, 9, 12, 19, 20 and 24), but not the others?
    Done.
I hope these help. - SchroCat (talk) 12:34, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hilst, A nudge on these comments, as you've done the ones below. - SchroCat (talk) 13:12, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@SchroCat: All done! Thanks for commenting and sorry for the delay :) – Hilst (talk | contribs) 01:30, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Alavense

[edit]
  • buying a five-game season for five million Brazilian réis per match - I don't understand what that means.
    Reworded. Any better?
  • The team's delegation consisted of sixteen players, a president, who also acted as the treasurer and the team's coach; and a referee from the Pernambuco Sports Federation - I think this would read more clearly like this: "The team's delegation consisted of sixteen players, a president—who also acted as the treasurer and the team's coach—and a referee from the Pernambuco Sports Federation".
    Done.
  • Afterwards, the delegation traveled to Belém, Pará, playing five games against Belém-based teams - Maybe "against teams based in that city"?
    Done.
  • and subsequently lost to Remo 5–3 - I think it would be better to write the result from the perspective of the team the article deals with, so 3–5. There are other instances of this throughout the text.
My bad, then. Ignore what I said there. Thank you, ChrisTheDude. Kind regards, Alavense (talk) 14:15, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Besides, use {{nbnd}} for the results.
    Done.
  • Manaus, Amazonas should be "Manaus, Amazonas," for consistency's sake.
    Done.
  • ordering the arrest of defender Pedrinho, which accused him of - Maybe it's "who was accused of" what you mean?
    Done.
  • with either 26, or 28 matches - No need for that comma.
    Done.

That's what I saw. Kind regards, Alavense (talk) 09:54, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Alavense: All done! Thanks for commenting :) – Hilst (talk | contribs) 12:49, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. Kind regards, Alavense (talk) 11:24, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

[edit]

Image licence, placement and ALT text seems OK. I wonder where NordNordWest got the lines in File:Brazil location map.svg from. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:02, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sources are named in the file description: NIMA and WDB II data. NNW (talk) 08:13, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well, that was rather blind on my part... Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 06:08, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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