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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose 10:04, 11 August 2013 (UTC) [1].[reply]

Starfish

[edit]

Starfish (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): LittleJerry, Chiswick Chap and Cwmhiraeth (talk) 19:05, 2 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

We are nominating this for featured article because we have been working on it for some time and believe it reaches the required standard. We have recently had the benefit of a detailed peer review by Axl. Thank you Axl! Cwmhiraeth (talk) 19:05, 2 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It is unclear why a picture of a red-knobbed starfish is included in the "Diversity" subsection in "Evolutionary history". It isn't explicitly described as belonging to one of the orders. On the other hand, there is apparently a picture of a cushion star, but I am unsure which part of the picture is actually the starfish. I suggest removal of the picture of the cushion star; use the picture of the red-knobbed starfish as the explicit representation of Valvatida. Axl ¤ [Talk] 12:47, 3 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I have replaced the cushion star image with the red-knobbed one. This better aligns the other images to the section to which they refer. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 13:27, 3 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. Axl ¤ [Talk] 20:57, 3 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"Evolutionary history", subsection "Diversity", subsection "Living groups", "Brisingida" mentions several types of plates. Can information about these different types of plates be included in the "Anatomy" section? Axl ¤ [Talk]

I have better explained "plates" in the Anatomy section and have edited "Brisingida" to remove reference to actinal and abactinal which are alternative names to oral and aboral. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:02, 4 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. Axl ¤ [Talk] 22:53, 5 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

From "Evolutionary history", subsection "Diversity", subsection "Living groups", "Paxillosida": "Papulae are plentiful on their aboral surface, they possess marginal plates and have sessile pedicellariae." What does "sessile" mean in this context? Axl ¤ [Talk] 09:25, 6 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Changed wording Cwmhiraeth (talk) 13:24, 6 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

From "Evolutionary history", subsection "Diversity", subsection "Living groups", "Spinulosida": "They have numerous groups of low spines on the aboral surface." Perhaps "short spines" rather than "low spines"? Axl ¤ [Talk] 09:27, 6 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Done Cwmhiraeth (talk) 13:24, 6 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

In "Evolutionary history", subsection "Diversity", subsection "Living groups", the example species for Paxillosida, Spinulosida, Valvatida and Velatida are lacking references. Could you add these please? Axl ¤ [Talk] 09:32, 6 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

As examples, I did not think they needed references, but I have added them anyway Cwmhiraeth (talk) 13:24, 6 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

From "Human relations", subsection "In legend and literature", paragraph 3: "In 1900, the New Zealand scholar Edward Tregear documented The Creation Song, which he describes as "an ancient prayer for the dedication of a high chief" of Hawaii." Is the origin of the scholar (New Zealand) really relevant? It could initially be inferred that the legend is from New Zealand, but is not until the end of the sentence that the source in Hawaii becomes evident. Axl ¤ [Talk] 13:55, 7 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Done Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:31, 7 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

From "Human relations", subsection "In popular culture": "Like the other songs on the second record of the album, For Little Ones, it was played with acoustic instruments, ostensibly for children, according to the album's liner notes." Is this really relevant? I'm not sure that the lyrics quote is helpful either. Axl ¤ [Talk] 11:13, 8 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Removed. LittleJerry (talk) 16:36, 8 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Removed lyrics. LittleJerry (talk) 15:51, 10 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

From "Human relations", subsection "In popular culture": "In the "silly and lame" 2006 Australian-American teen fantasy comedy film Aquamarine, the eponymous mermaid gives each of the two protagonists Hailey and Claire a live starfish earring. The starfish are voiced by Emma Roberts (Claire's), Joanna Levesque (Hailey's), and Sara Paxton (Aquamarine's)." Why is the quote "silly and lame" included? Is it necessary to list the actresses who voice the specific starfish? Axl ¤ [Talk] 09:09, 9 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Removed both.
Thanks. Axl ¤ [Talk] 17:21, 9 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

From "Human relations", subsection "As food": "but on "Huamobel" the people cut them up." What/where is "Huamobel"? Axl ¤ [Talk] 09:14, 9 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

added "the island of".
That helps a bit, but it's still vague. Axl ¤ [Talk] 17:24, 9 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Rumpf published the description in 1705. He was based on the now-Indonesian island of Ambon, so Huamobel was presumably also in the Indonesian/Malay archipelago. How about "the unidentified island of"? The account is of interest because it is rare and by an authoritative figure. Happy to edit it as required. Chiswick Chap (talk) 17:53, 9 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I tried a Google search for "Huamobel" and found only mirrors of Wikipedia's "Starfish" article and Rumpf's original description. I don't think that "unidentified" would be better. Let's leave the current text as it is. If other reviewers raise the matter again, we can reconsider. Axl ¤ [Talk] 11:50, 10 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
OK

From "Human relations", subsection "As food": "squeeze out the black blood." "Black blood"? Axl ¤ [Talk] 09:17, 9 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

That was the original description as quoted; we don't know which semi-fluid substance he may have meant. Chiswick Chap (talk) 16:44, 9 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, I accept that. I have changed the single quotes to double quotes. Axl ¤ [Talk] 17:26, 9 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

From "Human relations", subsection "As food": "Packets of dried starfish, "ヒトデ乾燥品 小袋タイプ 150g" are sold in Japan." Is the weight, "150 g", relevant? Axl ¤ [Talk] 11:54, 10 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

removed. Chiswick Chap (talk) 11:56, 10 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

From "Human relations", subsection "In industry and military history": "Starfish Prime was a high-altitude nuclear test conducted by the United States of America on 9 July 1962; the device exploded 250 miles (400 km) above the Pacific Ocean with a yield equivalent to 1.4 megatons of TNT." I don't think that the latter half of the sentence is necessary. A wikilink is already included for interested readers. Axl ¤ [Talk] 12:01, 10 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

removed. Chiswick Chap (talk) 15:35, 10 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. That's my full review of the text finished. I'll try to check through some of the references. Axl ¤ [Talk] 16:46, 10 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry about the delay. I'll make a start on the reference checking.

1. Sweet, Elizabeth. Asterozoa: Fossil groups. All three statements are verified. Axl ¤ [Talk] 09:13, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

4. Wray, Gregory A. Echinodermata: Spiny-skinned animals. The source isn't explicitly referring to adult animals, but I think that this is a reasonable conclusion. Axl ¤ [Talk] 09:18, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

There are several references to Edward Ruppert's book, Invertebrate Zoology, that I am unable to check. Axl ¤ [Talk] 09:20, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

10. Carefoot, Tom. Pedicellariae. a. The source does not mention "compound ossicles". Nor does it describe waving on stalks. Indeed one of the examples implies the absence of this. b. The source does not describe "several groups of starfish" with pedicellariae. On the contrary, the source states that they "are found mainly in a single Order of sea stars, the Forcipulatida." Axl ¤ [Talk] 09:32, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I have added an extra reference for a. and replaced the reference for b. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 13:06, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Okay. The new reference is Ruppert's textbook, which I am unable to check. Axl ¤ [Talk] 22:01, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

16. Cavey, Michael J. Specializations for excitation-contraction coupling. The source is behind a paywall; I am unable to verify the text. Axl ¤ [Talk] 09:36, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

25. Lawrence, John M. Chemistry and Ecological Role of Starfish Secondary Metabolites. A large section of text is referenced to this source. The statements are verified in the source. Axl ¤ [Talk] 09:44, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

30. McClary, D. J. Reproductive pattern in the brooding and broadcasting sea star Pteraster militaris. The source is behind a paywall so I am only able to view the abstract. a. The statement is verified in the abstract. b. Not verified in the abstract but I am unable to view the whole paper. Axl ¤ [Talk] 09:50, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I have replaced the reference for b. to one you should be be able to see. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 13:06, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think you have done that. Axl ¤ [Talk] 22:04, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Ah! I replaced #30 but the numbering had changed. Extra reference now added to supplement #31 (to Ruppert, which you can't access either.) Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:23, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Okay. [I included the author and title to help avoid that potential misunderstanding. :-) ] Axl ¤ [Talk] 21:57, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

35. Hendler, Gordon. The biology of a brooding seastar, Leptasterias tenera, in Block Island. The first statement is verified in the source. I don't think that the second statement is verified though. Axl ¤ [Talk] 08:59, 20 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

With regard to the second reference, it mentions "cold adaptations" but I have removed it anyway as it was a duplicate reference. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:07, 20 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Okay. Axl ¤ [Talk] 10:40, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

39. 41. Beach, D. H. Spawning pheromone in crown-of-thorns starfish. The first part of the statement is not verified in the source. The second part of the statement is verified. Axl ¤ [Talk] 09:04, 20 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I thought it a self-evident statement but I have rephrased the sentence concerned to better reflect the source. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:07, 20 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I am referring to this statement: "In the tropics, reproduction may occur throughout the year but in temperate regions there is usually a particular breeding season." The statement is certainly not self-evident. After closer inspection of the source ("Letters to Nature"), it is possible that there may be content behind a paywall that I am unable to access. Axl ¤ [Talk] 10:45, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, that sentence is not self-evident (but is widely known). I have been unable to find a reliable source for it as it was so I have rewritten it and provided a new reference. This is reference #41, Thorson, and the point appears in the paragraph numbered 20. If you think this is unsatisfactory I will remove the sentence entirely. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 09:22, 23 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The new reference (Thorson) states "The tropical species of marine invertebrates breed (in contrast to temperate and arctic species) within such different seasons that their larval stock, taken as a whole, is more or less equally distributed in the plankton all the year round." That's not quite the same as the current text. How about this: "In the tropics, different species have their own breeding seasons throughout the year as a plentiful supply of phytoplankton is continuously available for the larvae to feed on." Axl ¤ [Talk] 09:34, 24 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Replaced. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:31, 24 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. Axl ¤ [Talk] 11:28, 26 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

In "Life cycle", subsection "Sexual reproduction", the sentences at the end of the last paragraph use the same reference. There is no need to duplicate a reference in consecutive sentences. The same occurs at the end of the "Larval development" subsection. Axl ¤ [Talk] 09:09, 20 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:07, 20 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. Axl ¤ [Talk] 10:48, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

45. Fisher, W. K. Asexual reproduction in the starfish Sclerasterias. The statement is verified in the source. (I am moving the position of the reference to include mention of the discs.) Axl ¤ [Talk] 10:55, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

47. Edmondson, C. H. Autotomy and regeneration of Hawaiian starfishes. I can't seem to find verification for the first statement. The other three statements are all verified in the source. Axl ¤ [Talk] 09:45, 24 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

See page 11 of the pdf file for the first statement. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:31, 24 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, thank you. Axl ¤ [Talk] 11:30, 26 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

49. Eaves, Alexandra A. Reproduction: widespread cloning in echinoderm larvae. The statement is verified in the source. Axl ¤ [Talk] 09:49, 24 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

52. McAlary, Florence A. Population structure and reproduction of the fissiparous seastar, Linckia columbiae Gray, on Santa Catalina Island, California. The pdf link does not seem to be working for me. Axl ¤ [Talk] 23:19, 27 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Nor for me. I have replaced it. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:24, 28 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. Axl ¤ [Talk] 21:32, 29 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

53. Mladenov, Philip V. Purification and partial characterization of an autotomy-promoting factor from the sea star Pycnopodia helianthoides. A moderately large chunk of text is referenced to this and another source. However I do not find the statements supported by the source. The source describes experiments with this autotomy-promoting factor, which isn't even mentioned in the article. Axl ¤ [Talk] 23:25, 27 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I have rearranged the sentences, added mention of the autotomy-promoting factor and added an additional reference. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:24, 28 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. Axl ¤ [Talk] 21:35, 29 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

54. Hayashi, Yutaka. Effects of ionic environment on viscosity of catch connective tissue in holothurian body wall. The latter two sentences are supported by the reference. However the rest of the text is not supported. (The reference describes physiology in sea cucumbers, not starfish.) Axl ¤ [Talk] 23:34, 27 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It now just supports the last two sentences. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:24, 28 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, thanks. Axl ¤ [Talk] 21:37, 29 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

54. Encyclopedia.com. Asteroidea (sea stars). Both statements are verified in the source. Axl ¤ [Talk] 21:49, 29 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

61. Wagner, S. C. Keystone species. The statement is verified in the source. Axl ¤ [Talk] 18:33, 31 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

68. Global Invasive Species Database. 100 of the world's worst invasive alien species. The statement is verified in the source. Axl ¤ [Talk] 20:31, 1 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

72. Mah, Christopher. Sea star defense. Both statements are verified in the source. (Incidentally, the website uses a photo of the crown-of-thorns starfish from Wikimedia Commons without providing appropriate attribution.) Axl ¤ [Talk] 16:47, 3 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

94. Matsubara, M. The phylogenetic status of Paxillosida (Asteroidea) based on complete mitochondrial DNA sequences. The statement is verifed in the source. Axl ¤ [Talk] 16:54, 3 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

110. Janies, Daniel A. Echinoderm phylogeny including Xyloplax, a progenetic asteroid. The first two statements are verified in the source. Due to my display settings, I am unable to view the phylogenetic tree in the article. (The three statements are in a row in the text, so there isn't any need to duplicate the reference. A single reference at the end should be sufficient.) Axl ¤ [Talk] 17:04, 3 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Extra references removed Cwmhiraeth (talk) 19:55, 3 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

118. Tregear, Edward. The Creation Song of Hawaii. All three statements are verified in the source. (Again, the references are in a row in the text, so there is no need for duplication.) Axl ¤ [Talk] 18:57, 3 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Extra references removed Cwmhiraeth (talk) 19:55, 3 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

128. TVguide.com. Aquamarine: Cast & details. The link doesn't seem to be working. Axl ¤ [Talk] 19:02, 3 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Replaced the dead reference Cwmhiraeth (talk) 19:55, 3 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

133. Bos, A. R. Population dynamics, reproduction and growth of the Indo-Pacific horned sea star, Protoreaster nodosus. I am only able to view the abstract, which doesn't verify the statement. However the abstract does state "Potential effects of ornamental collection on the sea star populations are discussed." A Google search about the species' conservation status does imply that collection by humans is adversely affecting the population, so it is likely that the source verifies the statement. Axl ¤ [Talk] 19:13, 3 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I am aware that my review of the references has slowed the FAC process. I am stopping my review here. With only a couple of minor outstanding points about the sources that I checked, I am happy to support the article for FA status. Axl ¤ [Talk] 19:15, 3 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, Axl, for all your work on improving this article and its referencing. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 19:55, 3 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Sasata

[edit]

I'll start with a source review, and have more substantive comments about the article later. Sasata (talk) 08:59, 12 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • the accessdate format of ref#1 is different than the rest; the publisher should be given ("University of Bristol)
Done Cwmhiraeth (talk) 20:12, 12 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • ensure the author name formats are consistent throughout (e.g. "Richard Fox" v. "Knott, Emily" v. "O'Neill P.")
Been through them with a microscope! Cwmhiraeth (talk) 20:12, 12 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • ref#3 needs the date
Done Cwmhiraeth (talk) 20:12, 12 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Tree of Life" or "Tree of Life web project"?
Done Cwmhiraeth (talk) 20:12, 12 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • in ref #7, should "Daily Mail" be italicized? (and "The Guardian" in ref #120?)
Done Cwmhiraeth (talk) 20:12, 12 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • all of the occurrences of "et al" should be changed to "et al."
Done Cwmhiraeth (talk) 19:20, 12 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • ensure all subtitles are capitalized (or not) after the colon (e.g. compare ref 11 v. ref 27)
Done Cwmhiraeth (talk) 20:12, 12 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • space missing after pp in ref#14, also #20 (check throughout)
Done Cwmhiraeth (talk) 19:20, 12 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • page #'s missing in ref#16 (and should include middle name initials to be consistent with others)
Done Cwmhiraeth (talk) 20:14, 12 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • refs#17, #27, #41, #81, #83 have title in title case, unlike most other journal articles (check throughout for other instances)
Done Cwmhiraeth (talk) 19:20, 12 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • author for ref#19? (see "Contact" page)
Done Cwmhiraeth (talk) 19:20, 12 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • what makes Madreporite Nexus a RS? (i.e., who is Jonathan Dale?) (note that this is not italicized in ref #53)
Replaced reference Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:13, 13 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • ref#26 should be properly formatted as a chapter in a book (i.e. give the authors, and use the "chapter" parameter of cite book template)
Done Cwmhiraeth (talk) 19:20, 12 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • convert double hyphen to emdash in ref#28
Done Cwmhiraeth (talk) 19:20, 12 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • link to ref#30 takes me to the FSJ main page, rather than directly to the PDF; needs issue#; Field Stydies->Studies
Done Cwmhiraeth (talk) 19:20, 12 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • doi for ref#34 available here
Done Cwmhiraeth (talk) 12:32, 12 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • link in refs#45 & 46 takes me to the abstract, so is redundant with the doi
Done Cwmhiraeth (talk) 12:32, 12 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • ref #47 is a student conference poster presentation, so probably does not qualify as a high-quality RS for FA
Replaced reference Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:13, 13 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • ref #48 should link directly to the PDF rather than the abstract
Is that OK? Cwmhiraeth (talk) 12:32, 12 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • ref #49 is available online from BDH here, or as a direct link to the PDF here; similarly, might as well link directly to the PDF in ref #50
Is that OK? Cwmhiraeth (talk) 12:32, 12 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • formatting for ref #54 is off (perhaps it's not in a cite book template?); author first name?
Done Cwmhiraeth (talk) 11:19, 12 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • page range format is different in refs #63, 66, 71, 72, 74, 76
Done Cwmhiraeth (talk) 11:19, 12 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • check capitalization of title in ref#75
Done Cwmhiraeth (talk) 11:19, 12 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • full author names are available from the doi link of ref#76 (I suspect this is the case for several others as well where only initials are given); also, Tang is listed twice
Done #76 Cwmhiraeth (talk) 11:19, 12 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • page # for ref#78?
The Google book does not give page numbers. I have added the chapter number, and the link takes you to the page with the information. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:46, 12 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • missing author in ref#82
Done Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:46, 12 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • publisher location given in refs#85 & #117 but not for most other books
Done Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:46, 12 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • refs #1 and #88 are identical and should be combined
Done Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:46, 12 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • check formatting of ref#90
Done Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:46, 12 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • italicize Xyloplax in ref #107
Done Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:46, 12 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • isbn for refs#116 & 117?
Done Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:46, 12 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • link in ref #122 does not work for me – perhaps a typo in the url?
Seems OK to me Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:01, 12 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • italicize binomial in refs#122, #123
Done Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:01, 12 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • remove link in ref#123 (just leads to the abstract, which is available in the doi link); full first names of authors are available
Done Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:01, 12 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • check capitalization in ref #124
Done Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:01, 12 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • should inform us of whatever Asian language is used in ref #125
Done Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:01, 12 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • include publisher in ref#130 (Duke University?)
Done Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:01, 12 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • need space in author initials, ref#132 (also check the "Further reading" section for additional instances)
Done Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:01, 12 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • I question the reliability of ref#133 (looks like a wiki to me)
Replaced Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:01, 12 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • any idea if MilHist considers Uboat.net a RS?
Replaced reference Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:13, 13 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • consider converting the isbn's to the recommended isbn-13 format (a conversion tool is available here)
Done, a useful tool Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:34, 13 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • some of the web pages used as sources for the "Human relations" section look like they might benefit from being archived (who knows when they will go down?), to prevent future deadlink accumulation
I'm not aware of how such archiving is done. Can you give any guidance? Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:04, 13 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
See WP:Using WebCite. Sasata (talk) 22:25, 21 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • I distrust further reading sections … there's probably 100's of books/articles that could go in there; perhaps some could just be integrated into the article text? If you must include, make the formatting consistent with those in the References
Removed Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:13, 13 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Lead: suggest links to opportunistic, life cycle, regeneration, coral, fossil
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 03:29, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Taxonomy: There's no discussion of the taxonomic history. Who named the class, and in what year (include a link/citation to the protolog if available online). How did Linnaeus (or other biologists prior to De Blainville) classify these organisms? What is the etymology of the name Asteroidea?
Done (not sure about Linnaeus etc. (my computer seems to have contracted a virus and has gone sluggish) Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:18, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "are characterized by the possession of" perhaps "are characterized by having"
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 03:23, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The subphylum includes the two classes Asteroidea," missing "of"?
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 03:23, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • link Calliasterellidae and Trichasteropsida
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 03:23, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think the wrong "ossicle" is linked
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 03:23, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Anatomy: "but the number varies with group." -> "the group"?
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 03:23, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "and a thin coelomic myoepithelial layer which provides" needs comma before which (check throughout article for other instances)
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 18:59, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • check throughout for duplicate links; I see dups in this section for ossicle, Valvatidea, Focipulatida
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 19:15, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • links: interstices, gas exchange, ampulla, grazers, estuarine, pigmented, photoreceptor cells, glucose, galactose, glycosidic, biological activity, pheromone, conspecific
Fixed. Expect for ampulla as I don't know if its Ampulla of uterine tube or Ampulla of ductus deferens. Also "biological activity" is not in the article, only some source titles. LittleJerry (talk) 03:23, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I piped that link wrong, I meant pharmacological activity. Sasata (talk) 04:17, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Linked that. LittleJerry (talk) 04:41, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Ampulla not linked because there is no suitable page and it is explained immediately afterwards. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 04:58, 20 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • calcareous is linked previously, so no need for a wikt link
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 03:29, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Astropecten, Luidia, coelomic, pyloric should be linked on 1st occurrence
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 03:29, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "each one composed of 80–200 simple ocelli. These are composed of" repetition
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 03:23, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • what does circumoral mean?
Removed Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:31, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The ecological role in starfish of these chemicals" awkward construction
Fixed Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:35, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "supplement the pedicellariae in the prevention of other organisms" perhaps "supplement the pedicellariae to prevent other organisms"
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 03:23, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm surprised that this article is not used as a source, as it seems to be a major recent review by well-known experts (it's also open access, so you could use some of the images within if so desired)
I'm looking at this. Can images be used from any open access article then? Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:31, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Only if they are marked as CC-BY-SA ("which permits unrestricted use, distribution, and reproduction in any medium"); this would not be the case if they are CC-by-NC-SA (noncommerical uses only). Sasata (talk) 17:41, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I have incorporated this source. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:53, 20 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • there's no mention in the article about the widespread use of Asteroidea species in studies on development and reproduction. What species are most commonly used? Why are they used? see PMID 20536323
I have created an "In research" section and will expand it further Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:59, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I have added a recent secondary source Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:59, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • WP:Secondary encourages us to use secondary sources when possible in preference to primary sources (and we should be mindful of this as it is a requirement of a FA). I see several uses of primary studies in this article that might be replaced with more recent reviews. Examples:
  • "The Antarctic Labidiaster annulatus uses its large pedicellariae to capture krill, while the North Pacific Stylasterias forreri uses its pedicellariae to snare small fish.[15]" sourced to a research paper from 1975 – are these facts not mentioned in Lawrences's 2013 textbook?
Done. It doesn't mention Stylasterias forreri though. LittleJerry (talk) 23:55, 21 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In some species such as Nepanthia belcheri, a large female can split in half and the resulting offspring are males. When these grow large enough they change back into females.[31]" sourced to a research paper from 1982 – can it be cited to Lawrence?
Lawrence cites the paper for the line "Asexual reproduction by fission occurs in Coscinasterias and other genera...." on page 37. LittleJerry (talk) 23:55, 21 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Brooding is especially common … in smaller species that produce just a few eggs." does this really need to be cited to a primary research paper from 1984?
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 00:44, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • these are just examples; I would ask that you check all of the older citations to see if they can be replaced with more recent secondary sources (and I realize this will not be possible nor desirable in all cases)
In the case of "Ecological role", Paine's studies are cited by Lawrence. LittleJerry (talk) 00:44, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
In many instances, my Ruppert has mentioned a fact and then I have searched for the relevant research paper, often ancient because it was basic research. Are you telling me not to bother in future and just use the textbook? Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:59, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I have replaced some of the aged references. With regard to #47, Edmondson 1935, I think that should stay. He is reporting experiments he has done on regeneration and the date they were done seems irrelevant. His results are more likely to be quoted than contradicted. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 20:00, 23 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "† Calliasterellidae, with the type genus Calliasterella from the Carboniferous and Devonian periods.[103][104]" the first citation is to a 1910 paper, in German, that does not appear to be accessible on the internet. The second citation appears to cover all facts in the sentence completely, so the first is unnecessary (I assume it's the protologue, in which case it would be more appropriate as a source at the target article)
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 00:44, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Most species of starfish are gonochoristic, there being separate male and female individuals." noun +ing
Done. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:39, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Some species are simultaneous hermaphrodites producing eggs and sperm at the same time" perhaps better with a comma after "hermaphrodites"?
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 16:52, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Yet other starfish are sequential hermaphrodites."
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 16:52, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Protandrous individuals such as Asterina gibbosa" A. gibbosa is a species, so should not refer to it as an individual
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 16:52, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "the young starfish obtain their nutrition" -> "obtain nutrients/nourishment"
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 16:52, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In the tropics, different species have their own breeding seasons throughout the year as a plentiful supply of phytoplankton is continuously available for the larvae to feed on." I'm not sure I'm parsing the first half of this sentence correctly: is it saying that species have their own unique breeding seasons (because timing is not dependent on food resources), or that, in the absence of limiting food resources, all species have breeding seasons that extend throughout the year?
Rephrased to clarify. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:39, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "a pheromone which serves" article still needs an audit of which/that usage
Done. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10.09, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
  • "This behaviour is called pseudo-copulation" previous instances of word-as-word have been enclosed with quote marks (e.g., The developing young are called "lecithotrophic"). There's other instances throughout the article, do a search for "called"
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 16:52, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Single arms that are regenerating a whole individual are called comet forms." change to "Single arms that regenerate"?
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 16:52, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "and may live to the age of 34." seems an odd way to give a lifespan estimate for a starfish; how about "and has a maximum recorded lifespan of 34 years?" or similar
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 16:52, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • link electrolyte
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 16:52, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "the short-spined pisaster from the West Coast of America, may use a set of specialized tube feet to dig itself deep" why "may"? Is this not known for sure?
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 16:52, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "ability to adapt to different environments gives them great ecological importance." is it possible to give importance?
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 16:52, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • micro-organisms no hyphen, according to our article; later, macro-organisms could just be replaced with organisms
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 16:52, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "knock-on effect" is (I think) a UK expression, perhaps "unintended effect"?
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 16:52, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • link benthic
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 16:52, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "is one of a very few echinoderm"
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 16:52, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Invasive Species Specialist Group list" ->Group's
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 16:52, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Other species concentrate on protecting their vulnerable tube feet" don't think "concentrate" is the best word choice here, how about just "Other species protect their vulnerable tube feet"
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 16:52, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • ensure short-form binomials use a non-breaking space (check throughout)
Done, I think. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 19:10, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "when P. ochraceus was exposed to … they were relatively unaffected." needs agreement
Done. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:39, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "It is thought that their survivability is due to the nodular nature of their skeletons," The phrase "It is thought" sounds weaselly, especially as it is sourced to a primary research paper that represents the conclusion of three scientists
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 16:52, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "very rich accumulations" -> dense accumulations?
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 16:52, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "some limestones from this period are composed almost entirely from fragments from these groups." I don't think the phrase "composed from" is typical English usage
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 16:52, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • link sister group
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 16:52, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "A large eighteen-armed member of Brisingida" eighteen->18
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 16:52, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "inflexible disc and between six and 20 long, thin arms," "Comparable quantities should be all spelled out or all figures" per MOS:NUMERAL
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 16:52, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • link molecular evidence
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 16:52, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Among the "uncreated gods" described early in the song are the male Kumilipo ("Creation") and the female Poele, both born in the night; a coral insect, the earthworm, and "The starfish was born, whose children were starry"." The punctuation in this sentence has me confused ... is the earthworm the coral insect? What is the significance of being born in the night? I don't understand what I'm supposed to take away from the quoted part ... the starfish has star-shaped offspring?
Rephrased. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:39, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • link Malay
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 16:52, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • organization->organization
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 16:52, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The 1988 album Starfish by the Australian alternative rock band The Church made the band's name" Does "made the band's name" mean "made it popular"?
Improved but see below. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:39, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • the "In popular culture" section reads like a collection of sourced trivia (which may act as a magnet to invite well-intentioned readers to add their own favourite starfish factoid…). Is there any underlying theme to the use of these animals in pop culture?
Removed section. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:39, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "many species are toxic, as the body wall contains saponins[71] and tetrodotoxins." are saponins and tetrodotoxins always found together in many toxic species? If not, the sentence needs to be reworded.
Done. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:39, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The Amakusa TV company markets an ebook called "Cooking Starfish in Japan", available in English and Japanese," Is it important for this article to indicate the multi-language availability of this ebook?
Removed. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:39, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "A similar phenomenon exists in the Indo-Pacific for species like Protoreaster nodosus." like->such as (unless species that are similar to Protoreaster nodosus is actually meant)
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 16:52, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your support. There is now a description in English for the image you mentioned. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:04, 13 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments from Jim Very good article, a couple of niggles before I support. Jimfbleak - talk to me? 11:59, 21 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • You have made a creditable attempt to explain why some authors and bands have chosen the Starfish name, but it's not clear to me whether the Watts and Orbell books have any connection beyond the title, similarly the 1988 album.
The "Human relations" section is Chiswick Chap's contribution and he is on holiday. I have reduced and rephrased the paragraph about books but I can remove Watts and Orbett completely if you want? Cwmhiraeth (talk) 12:41, 21 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why have you given the kanji characters for dried starfish? This is usually only done for eg biographies of Japanese people. Here it seems almost a case of "we know this, so we will put it in", rather than any real point. It's also inconsistent, you haven't done it for the Japanese book or given the Indonesian original for "black blood".
Removed Cwmhiraeth (talk) 12:41, 21 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The first point isn't a bit deal, rather than wait on a minor issue I'll support now Jimfbleak - talk to me? 14:19, 21 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 17:50, 21 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delegate comments -- Could you just check your duplicate links and see if they're necessary? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 02:23, 10 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 03:29, 10 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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