Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Seattle Kraken/archive2

Seattle Kraken

Nominator(s): XR228 (talk) 06:48, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Seattle Kraken are the second-newest team in the National Hockey League, having been founded in 2018 and playing their first game in 2021. Within their three seasons, they have fared not-so-decently, qualifying for the playoffs only once. I nominated this article for FA a couple months back, but it didn't get enough reviews, so I'm hoping we can avoid that this time. Thanks. XR228 (talk) 06:48, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

"The Kraken qualified for the Stanley Cup playoffs for the first time in 2023. The team faced off against the Colorado Avalanche in the first round." - could merge these two, rather perfunctory, sentences
"ending their sophomore season" - I presume "sophomore" is an American English term for "second".......?
"The previous season, Beniers scored" => "The previous season, Beniers scored"
"The Kraken played their first home game at Climate Pledge Arena" - is Climate Pledge Arena the same facility as KeyArena? If so, I would clarify this.
"He made his Kraken debut on October 13, notching a 4–1 victory" - not sure he personally notched the victory, I would imagine some other players helped a bit too ;-)
"The team's record of 46–28–8" - is this W-D-L? W-L-D? Something else? I have seen a tooltip used to explain such records on similar articles.....
"ultimately part of a 13-game point streak" - what's a "point streak"? Is there an appropriate link?
"Vince Dunn (left) and Joey Daccord (right) during the 2024 Winter Classic." - this image caption isn't a sentence so doesn't need a full stop
"The Coachella Valley Firebirds, the AHL affiliate of the Kraken" - write (and link) the name in full on first usage
in the Season-by-season record section, T appears in the key but no such column exists in the table
Under "Owners", I would merge the two single-sentence "paragraphs" into one
That's what I got :-) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 19:00, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@ChrisTheDude I have made the changes. As for Martin Jones, wins are typically counted as part of a goalie's stats in ice hockey, so normally when a team wins, it is also said that the goaltender won the game as well. XR228 (talk) 04:38, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
OK, that seems a bit weird but I will bow to how ice hockey does thing ;-) BTW the point about the "record of 46–28–8" still seems to be outstanding.... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:30, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@ChrisTheDude: In the paragraph before that, it talks about the Kraken's record of 27–49–6, so I added a note there. XR228 (talk) 15:01, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Apologies for missing that there. Support -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 15:46, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nick-D

I'd like to offer the following comments

The start of the 'Establishment' section is rather abrupt - the article would benefit from material here or as a separate section explaining the history of professional ice hockey in the region ahead of the team's establishment.
"The team plays the Nirvana song "Lithium" after every Kraken goal at home" - this seems a rather odd choice, even though Nirvana are a local band. Can the rationale here be explained?
The "Season-by-season record" section is unreferenced
"32 was retired on October 23, 2021, immediately before the team played their first regular season home game, in recognition of the team being the 32nd to join the NHL and in honor of the 32,000 fans who placed deposits for tickets on the first possible day." - this is stated earlier in the article, almost word for word.
While I appreciate that the article covers a fairly new sports team, it seems that it has been bulked up with minor issues and trivia that obviously wouldn't be included in articles on more established teams. This should be removed to help future proof the article, which needs to be a priority for FAs on ongoing topics. Some examples:
- " On July 13, 2022, the team signed goaltender Martin Jones to a one-year contract.[39] He made his Kraken debut on October 13, notching a 4–1 victory."
- "All fans holding tickets are given free transit passes to and from the arena, which is served by several bus routes and the Seattle Center Monorail."
- " At the team's first two home games, the Hyak's horn was not yet functional, so the team only played a recording of it"
- "The event was held under the banner of "Release the Kraken", a phrase popularized by the 1981 film Clash of the Titans and the 2010 remake"
- The second para of the 'Mascot' section could be cut. This seems like a concocted PR exercise.
- The 'broadcasting' section seems much too detailed - I doubt that many readers will care about most of this information, which includes unnecessary levels of detail on topics such as the radio stations that broadcast individual games and a single Covid case. This could be considerably condensed. Nick-D (talk) 06:09, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Nick-D: I have made the changes. As for the "abruptness," the section is about the establishment of the team, and I don't feel that it's right to put information about other former teams there. XR228 (talk) 00:16, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For a featured article, it's necessary. Stuff like this is the difference between a high quality article and a featured quality article. Nick-D (talk) 07:49, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Nick-D: I've added a section about the history of ice hockey in Seattle. XR228 (talk) 18:51, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A single paragraph that ends its coverage in 1975 and provides no information on what happened between then and 2017 (which is obviously quite a bit given that there was a process in 2017 that didn't just appear out of thin air) isn't at all sufficient to be frank. Nick-D (talk) 07:51, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Nick-D: I've added some stuff. XR228 (talk) 01:47, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nick-D ? Gog the Mild (talk) 22:44, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Replied above Nick-D (talk) 07:52, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

XR228 Nudge. Gog the Mild (talk) 13:33, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

My bad. I'll get to it shortly. XR228 (talk) 23:29, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source review

Based on this version.

Why the long quotes on citations 2 and 3?
Inconsistency between using "NHL.com" and "National Hockey League" in the work parameter for links from NHL.com; the latter should probably not be used except for league announcements (and changed to publisher).
Heavy reliance on NHL.com sources is a problem; more third-party sources would be appreciated.
Inconsistency in marking The Athletic as a subscription-required or limited-access source; citation 69 omits it entirely.
Citation 15 should use {{cite tweet}}, but ideally be replaced with something that isn't speculative; same goes for citation 16, as "reportedly" is an issue.
Citation 28 should be consistent with other uses of NHL.com sources.
Citation 57: SportsPro is not a high-quality source.
Citation 76 is not consistent with other NHL.com source formatting.
Citation 80: UniWatch is not a high-quality reliable source.
Citation 81: The Seattle Times is unlinked; for consistency, all citations should either use links or omit them after the first use.
Citation 82: USA Today needs to be added as the main source; For The Win is a subsection.
Citation 83: Barstool Sports is not a reliable source.
Citation 85: Pacific Northwest Sports is not a high-quality source.
Citation 89: PSBJ should be marked as subscription required.
Citation 100: Can this press release be replaced with something else? Either way, it is not correctly attributed, since PR Newswire is an aggregator.
Citation 108 should be consistent with other AHL website citations.
Citations 115, 116, 117: teams and organizations are publishers.
Citation 119: TSN is not listed as work here unlike other uses.
Citation 120: Is The Hockey Writers a high-quality source?
Citation 112: The Sporting News should be linked.
Citation 123: CNN/SI should be listed as a work, not a publisher.

Will conduct a spotcheck later, but at this point there are quite a few sources that need to be swapped out for higher-quality versions. Sounder Bruce 07:48, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@SounderBruce: I have made the changes. XR228 (talk) 23:56, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A few items were not addressed, so I went ahead and made the formatting changes. The comment on The Athletic has not been resolved, nor has the inconsistency between using "NHL.com" and "National Hockey League". Sounder Bruce 04:18, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@SounderBruce: I fixed the NHL.com part. All instances of The Athletic are marked as limited-access. XR228 (talk) 04:40, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@SounderBruce XR228 (talk) 16:59, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Spotchecks based on this revision:

Ref 4: Matches NYT source
- Side note, "due to their arena getting sold" should be replaced with "due to the sale of their arena".
Ref 14: Matches NHL.com source
Ref 31: Matches The Hockey News source
Refs 43 and 44: Matches sources
Ref 53: Matches NHL.com source
Ref 66: Matches Kitsap Sun source
Ref 71: NHL.com does not mention the Giant Pacific octopus nor its size and habitat.
Ref 78: A little too close on the paraphrasing, especially "said to be a nephew of the Fremont Troll".
Ref 87: Matches The Athletic source
Ref 99: Should be marked as a press release, otherwise matches
Ref 102: Should be marked as a press release, otherwise matches
Ref 103: Should be marked as a press release, otherwise matches
Refs 105 and 106: Access-date needs to match the "As of" date
Ref 110: Matches NHL.com source; the extra use of Ref 15 isn't particularly needed here
Ref 111: Does not mention the Kraken; a suitable replacement should be possible.
Ref 119:
In the league awards section, the ordering of the refs needs to be switched.
Franchise records section needs an "as of" date and archived citations to be verifiable; ideally, these wouldn't be changed mid-season.

@XR228: There are some issues that need to be resolved before I can pass this source review. Sounder Bruce 01:36, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

Avoid sandwiching text between images

Wordmark is missing alt text

File:WCP-Uniform-SEA.png should include a source for the design - it doesn't seem to align with some of the example elsewhere in the article

Images shouldn't have watermarks per WP:WATERMARK

File:NHL_Seattle_logo.gif: source link is dead. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:26, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Nikkimaria: I have made the changes. About the uniform image not having a source, what does that mean exactly? When I go to Wikimedia Commons, in the summary section, in the source row it says the user who made the design. If you could clarify that would be great. Thanks. XR228 (talk) 06:37, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The user who made the image didn't invent the design, right? Does the team have a page on it? Nikkimaria (talk) 00:47, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Nikkimaria: The team itself doesn't have a page about the jerseys. All NHL team jersey designs on Wikipedia are drawn digitally by someone, so I don't really think there's much we can do about it. XR228 (talk) 00:59, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

They're drawn digitally by someone based on something, though, not out of their own head. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:00, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Nikkimaria: If anything the drawing is based off pictures of players wearing the jersey, not, say, a graphic by the team. XR228 (talk) 01:18, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Nikkimaria XR228 (talk) 16:59, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

But some images of players show a jersey with a different design? eg File:Gourde_warmups_2_23_(52708217163).jpg. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:05, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Nikkimaria: That design is not one of the Kraken's current jerseys; the jersey Gourde is wearing in the photo was only used during certain games in 2022–23. The jerseys in the design that is there in the infobox are the ones the Kraken currently use. XR228 (talk) 04:37, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinator comment

A month in and just the single general support. Unless this nomination makes significant further progress towards a consensus to promote over the next three or four days I am afraid that it is liable to be archived. Gog the Mild (talk) 18:18, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am sorry, but I am timing this out. The usual two-week hiatus will apply. Gog the Mild (talk) 17:13, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Closing note: This candidate has been archived, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Gog the Mild (talk) 17:13, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]