Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Schichau-class torpedo boat/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Gog the Mild via FACBot (talk) 9 October 2021 [1].

Schichau-class torpedo boat

Nominator(s): Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:44, 11 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about a class of 22 dinky little Austro-Hungarian torpedo boats that were constructed in the late 19th century and were effectively obsolete by the time World War I broke out. They were used mainly as minesweepers and as part of local defence forces for Adriatic ports during the war, but some saw action. After the war, most were quickly broken up, but a few were handed over to the Yugoslavs (hence my interest), and one was a training vessel for the Yugoslav Naval Academy for more than fifteen years. Captured by the Italians and then the Germans, she wasn't much use for anything by that stage and was lost around the time of the German withdrawal from the Bay of Kotor. The article went through GAN in 2016, Milhist ACR a couple of years ago, and I have expanded it and more closely cited it using new sources in the last month. Have at it! Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:44, 11 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Source review

Spotchecks not done. Version reviewed

Some of the details in the infobox don't appear to be supported in the text - eg the preceded/succeeded by fields

deleted the first (not sure where I got that from), cited the second in the body. Everything else there seems to be cited in the body. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 22:12, 11 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Be consistent in whether you include locations/publishers for periodicals

Added to the one that didn't have a location. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 22:12, 11 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Location added, but still no publisher? Nikkimaria (talk) 20:29, 25 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Added. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 00:34, 8 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Can you provide any details on the reliability of Despot Infinitus as a publisher? Nikkimaria (talk) 21:09, 11 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I now have three books published by them, while they have some weak spots (English grammar copy-editing is not perfect and they lack indexes), they are well fact-checked and corroborated by other sources. Where there are variations it seems likely that Freivogel, being a specialist and able to read relevant languages, has actually accessed better sources than generalist English-only sources. Freivogel himself is reliably published in naval history journals like Warship International. Thanks Nikkimaria! Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 22:12, 11 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I'll take Freivogel as an expert under SPS, but just a head's up that we'd need more details on fact-checking to cite other authors, if that comes up in future noms. Nikkimaria (talk) 20:29, 25 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Image review - pass

Only one image. US Navy photograph, taken before 1921 (probably about 1911). Properly licensed.

Hawkeye7 (discuss) 19:02, 6 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Hawkeye!

Support Comments from Iazyges

Claiming my spot. Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 09:59, 12 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Lede

Apart from one that was discarded in 1911, all boats suggest Although one was discarded in 1911, the remaining boats...

Re-worded. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:53, 1 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

during the World War II April 1941 Axis invasion of Yugoslavia, suggest during the April 1941 Axis invasion of Yugoslavia as a part of World War II...

Re-worded. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:53, 1 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Background

One of the innovations that supported the Jeune École school of thought was the development of the seems somewhat awkward to put (French) school and school back to back; perhaps One of the innovations that supported the Jeune École doctrine was the development of the

Good point, re-worded. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:53, 1 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Service history

On 23 August 1914, No. 26 was mined off Pola is it known if she hit one mine or multiple? If singular, suggest On 23 August 1914, No. 26 hit a mine off Pola ; if multiple, are there any guesses to the number of mines she hit from sources?

A single mine, clarified. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:53, 1 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

When the World War II Axis invasion of Yugoslavia commenced in April 1941 suggest When the Axis invaded Yugoslavia in April 1941 as a part of World War II

Re-worded. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:53, 1 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

That is all of my suggestions. A neat article. Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 22:22, 12 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks very much for taking a look, Iazyges. See what you think of my edits? Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:53, 1 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinator note

A heads up that this could do with more indications that a consensus to promote is forming by the three week mark if it is to avoid being archived. Gog the Mild (talk) 10:53, 29 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Gog. I’m away from the computer until Friday, but will crack on with this then and seek further reviews. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 11:20, 29 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments from Parsecboy

The 37 mm guns were the Hotchkiss gun if you want to link it - any idea if they were the revolver cannon or single-barrel guns?

Single-barrel guns AFAIK, haven't seen a source that says they were the revolver version. Linked. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:51, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It might be worth adding to the background section that the Whitehead torpedo was developed in Austria-Hungary.

Good idea, done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:51, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It may also be worth detailing the significant budgetary problems the Austro-Hungarian Navy had in securing funding for new capital ships after Tegetthoff died - that was one of the main reasons Pöck and then Sterneck opted to go for torpedo vessels.

Another good point. Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:51, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I'd make the point a bit more clearly, that the Austrian and Hungarian parliaments repeatedly rejected Pöck's request for new ironclads in the early 1880s, so he turned to cheaper torpedo vessels to counter Italy's growing strength (see Sondhaus pp 51-53, for instance). I'd probably also mention Sterneck by name, since he was the Marinekommandant who ordered this class. Parsecboy (talk) 21:59, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

OK, done Parsecboy. See what you think? Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 23:32, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Looks good, nice work. Parsecboy (talk) 09:30, 5 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Were any of the boats present during the Cattaro Mutiny in 1918?

While there is general mention of torpedo boats in the bay, and several boats of other classes are named in Freivogel, none of this class are mentioned by number. Given they were in secondary/local defence roles, that isn't terribly surprising, I suppose. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:51, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Think that's all from me. Parsecboy (talk) 01:19, 2 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for taking a look, Parsecboy! Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:51, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support by Pendright

Back soon! Pendright (talk) 05:11, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Greetings PM - I leave you with a few nitpickers? Pendright (talk) 03:46, 6 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Lead:

The class was one of the first torpedo boat classes built for the Austro-Hungarian Navy, and they were initially powered by steam from a single locomotive boiler, and armed with two 37 mm (1.5 in) guns and two 356 mm (14 in) torpedo tubes.

Drop the comma after boiler or add a subject to the last clause?

After the war, sixteen were allocated to Italy and four were allocated to the navy of the newly created Kingdom of the Serbs, Croats and Slovenes (later Yugoslavia).

Sixteen "what" was allocated?

After capture during the April 1941 Axis invasion of Yugoslavia of World War II, the remaining boat saw service with the Italians and then the Germans.

Suggest replacing the second "of" wi in World War II

She was lost in German hands sometime after September 1943.

Suggest adding "while" in German hands?

All done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:36, 7 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Background:

During the 1880s, the Austro-Hungarian Navy became aligned with the French Jeune École (Young School) of naval strategy, which [advocated], among other things, ~~advocated the use of~~ [using] small but powerfully-armed ships to defeat ~~the~~ larger capital ships of [an] ~~the~~ enemy.

See what you think?

Design:

The Schichau-class boats were flush-decked and had a raised bridge, with a short stepped foremast positioned just forward of the bridge.

While ofter referred to as "flush-deckers",I believe they were properly identified as flush-ceck destroyers or of a flush-deck design?

All done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:36, 7 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Service:

Nos. 21, 24, 32 and 39 formed the 13th Torpedo Boat Group of the 7th Torpedo Division at Pola on the southern tip of the Istrian peninsula in the northern Adriatic, with Nos. 27, 30, 33–34, 37 and 40 forming part of the local minesweeping flotilla.

Think about changing "in" to "of"

Didn't do this. I think it is usual to describe a port as being "in" rather than "of" the relevant sea. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:36, 7 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"local" -> could this be more specfic?

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:36, 7 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Her captain Linienschiffsleutnant Josef Konic and six crew were rescued, but one officer and ten crew were lost.[15]

Think about adding "of the" between six & crew, and

adding members after the last crew?

Both done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:36, 7 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

None of the torpedo boats suffered any damage.

Should "damage" be plural?

I don't think so. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:36, 7 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Finished - @Peacemaker67: Pendright (talk) 03:46, 6 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for taking a look, Pendright. Your eagle eyes always improve my grammar! See what you think of my responses? Regards, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:36, 7 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Peacemaker67: All good, supporting. Regards, and thanks for your kind words. BTW, do you have a favorite Australian dictionary? Pendright (talk) 18:14, 7 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Well, the Macquarie is really the Australian standard. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 22:32, 7 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

CommentsSupport from Z1720

Non-expert prose review.

"at 10 kn (19 km/h; 12 mph)." Does kn refer to knots? As a non-boat expert, I am unsure about this. Perhaps introduce this abbreviation the first time knots is introduced earlier in this paragraph?

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:52, 7 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Any information about why they started numbering at 19 when they were redesignated numbers the boats?

It actually isn't very clear in the sources, which focus in boats used in WWI. They started off numbering when the first ever torpedo boat was commissioned by the A-H Navy, and at the time of WWI there was the Cobra class still in commission with Nos. 13 to 16 (but they were actually constructed after these (I know, confusing)), and two stand-alones, No. 17 and No. 18. Presumably the earlier numbers had been decommissioned before WWI? Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:52, 7 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

If there is information in the sources that can explain this, then add it in. If not, don't worry about it as we can only include what can be verified. Z1720 (talk) 00:27, 8 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I will have another look, but I haven't seen a source explaining this comprehensively enough for me to be confident in adding anything. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 00:32, 8 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Why is Italy not included as an operator in the infobox, when five of this class of boats was used as customs vessels by this country?

Good point. Fixed. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:52, 7 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Is Seearsenal Pola notable enough to be wikilinked (even if it's red at the moment)?

Probably. Linked. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:52, 7 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Those are my thoughts. I checked the infobox and the lede as well to ensure their information is sourced in the article. Z1720 (talk) 00:06, 6 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for taking a look at another of my noms, Z1720! See what you think of my responses? Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:52, 7 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I specifically reviewed this article because of the numerous FAC reviews you have completed in the past. I hope editors continue reviewing to help reduce this FAC backlog. I responded to a point above, but regardless of how that resolves I can support. Z1720 (talk) 00:27, 8 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

G'day @FAC coordinators: this now has four supports (one non-Milhist), source and image reviews. Could I have dispensation to get another started please? Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 00:36, 8 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yup. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 00:57, 8 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Gog the Mild (talk) 18:37, 9 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.