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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted 16:57, 28 June 2007.

Providence, Rhode Island

[edit]
previous FAC

This is an immediate renomination. Final feedback from people commenting hadn't been received, so I felt this was prematurely archived. I was told, given the circumstances, an exception to the "don't renominate immediately rule" would be made. Here it is. I believe all recommendations received have been worked into the article.--Loodog 02:15, 11 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose Needs the following fixes:
    • Referencing:
      • However, some fear that the new development will ruin the historic look of the city. Additional concerns include an equitable taxation policy for several of the new luxury highrises. No reference for these concerns. Where are such concerns published.
      • Nearly 30 percent of the city population lives below the poverty line. Where is this fact published?
      • The Pie Chart in the economy section needs a reference. Consider using the caption option in the image markup to put one in.
      • Vincent Cianci, Jr, who was often credited with Providence's 1990s renaissance, Credited by whom? If you credit someone, you should, you know, CREDIT them with a reference.
      • Between these schools the number of post-secondary students is approximately 44,000, or 25% the population of Providence Sometimes, a sentance can be overreferenced. Does this statement need SEVEN ref tags? If many references are needed, consider using a single ref tage with an explanatory footnote that explains how they all relate. This seems just gratuitous though.
      • The Providence Public School District serves about 26,000 students from pre-Kindergarten to grade 12. Funny. There are seven references for the post-secondary student population, and NO references for the K-12 population. Huh?
      • The animated television series Family Guy takes place in Quahog, a fictional suburb of Providence and prominently features the most pronounced segment of Providence's skyline several times an episode (the buildings are One Financial Plaza, 50 Kennedy Plaza, and the Bank of America Building respectively). The city and its name were used in the television series Providence, and Showtime's new series, Brotherhood, was also filmed and set in Providence. Needs some references to back up these claims.
      • Most baseball fans — along with the local media — tend to follow the Boston Red Sox. According to whom. Look, I believe you, but it needs a reference.
      • The references as a whole need some clean up, in terms of consistancy of style. Each reference needs full bibliographic info, if seeking to be a featured article: Author (if availible), Title, Work (if part of a larger work), publisher, date, url linked to title (for websites) and accessdate (for websites). As an option, the citation templates can help organize this information. Use them or don't use them, but the bibliographic info needs to be complete.
    • Organization issues:
      • The neighborhoods section has a confusing map which is in a bad place (it clashes with the bullets); plus the section should be part of, or at least next to, the Geography section. The map needs fixing; consider labeling each neighborhood. Its a useless map without labels. Plus, the entire section is merely a list. Consider prosifying the section with maybe a sentance or so describing the location and significance of each neighborhood. If worth mentioning in the article, it probably merits at leats a sentence.
      • Sister cities is droped in without context. This might be better at the end of the article as a small section on its own, rather than tacked on to the end of the Government section, which seems random. Plus it could benefit from explanatory text rather than just a bullet list.
      • The education section seems to need general clean up. Its choppy and poorly organized. Why are there not wikilinks for schools that probably have articles? Subsections would improve the article, (K-12, Post Secondary) and the list should be prosified.
      • The lead needs expansion. Several sections of the article are entirely unaddressed by the lead. This needs work. If the article has an entire section dedicated to it, it needs a summary in the lead. The lead should be a full summary of the entire article, and should be able to stand on its own as a mini-article. See WP:LEAD
Those fixes are all needed to make this FA, IMHO. Doable, considering it looks like the article is well cared for. --Jayron32|talk|contribs 03:09, 11 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Response
    • The pie chart has references on its image page. I'm not sure how I would add sources to it as an image.
    • The schools note needs seven reference tags because that 44,000 is the sum of each individual school's declared number of students. I can't really think of a way to streamline that.
      • Try this : <ref>This figure (44,000 students) is calculated as the sum of each individual school's declared number of students. See: {{cite web | first reference}} {{cite web | second reference}} etc. etc.</ref> That way, you can leave an explanatory note, and include all seven references without having seven footnotes.--Jayron32|talk|contribs 18:44, 13 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
        • Follow up Done.
    • The citation templates you speak of are use in every citation, though they need "publisher". I'm not sure what to put if there's no obvious publisher, though.
      • Cite #11, the CNN/Money Magazine Home Appreciation list is missing the following information which I have cut and pasted from the link itself: work = CNN/Money.com | publisher = Cable News Network LP, LLLP | date = 2007 | accessdate = 2007-06-13 . This information exists on nearly every reliable source as a website. If the website doesn't list publisher information like the copyright holder of the website or the date it was published, it probably isn't reliable. Looking through your list of refs, MOST look like they are formatted OK, and have all of the information needed, so I wouldn't go through and reformat each one, but check carefully to ensure that nothing is omitted like with cite #11.--Jayron32|talk|contribs 18:44, 13 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
      • Cite #96 is to a Providence Journal article with an author. Give him credit. Again, check your refs to ensure that full bibliographic info is included as appropriate.--Jayron32|talk|contribs 18:44, 13 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
        • Follow up Done.
    • I considered prosifying the neighborhood list, but I feared that would add needless length to the article.
      • Looked again. The map looks better with the neighborhood names. Maybe the list could be reformatted or the map resized to eliminate white space? Just an aesthetic thing, though. Not a huge deal.--Jayron32|talk|contribs 18:44, 13 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • I'm not sure what is meant by explanatory text in Sister cities. Among FA's, only Tulsa, Oklahoma seems to make any explanatory note, and that's about what Sister Cities are in general. Every U.S. FA city article just has a bulleted list here.

Thanks.--Loodog 04:14, 11 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comments
    • Article is much improved, with the neighborhood map adding a lot. Though, the neighborhood section seems like a good fit to go in the Geography section, maybe as a subsection?
    • The government section seems short, but I don't know what if anything might be missing. Also, some more cites are needed (e.g. "making him the first openly gay mayor of an American state capital.")
    • Something else missing... what's the level of crime in Providence? Crime trends? --Aude (talk) 14:54, 11 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
      • Good idea. I've added a brief crime section, moved neighborhoods to geography, and made the citation on Cicilline more explicit. Don't know what to add to the government section, though.--Loodog 16:17, 11 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - Education section lists only postsecondary schools. I think some reference to other schools, maybe just the name of the school district or districts and maybe number of schools might be in order. John Carter 00:23, 12 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Reply Maybe you were looking at just the first subsection. Classical, Nathanael Green, and the private schools are all listed. Though, mentioning of districts is a good idea.--Loodog 00:50, 12 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
A vote
Since no one's responded in the last two days and I've tried to address every comment made, I'd appreciate a vote if no one has anything further.
  • Comments A few more minor issues... More copyediting is needed, such as in the history section where the paragraph says "Revival began in the 1970s." In the crime section, and possibly elsewhere, there is a reference that is misplaced. References should go after the punctuation. The "See also" link in the culture section should go at the top of the section, per WP:LAYOUT. --Aude (talk) 20:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Followup. Done. I'd actually already fixed all the refs, but somebody snuck in that little bit about the Mayors Against Illegal Guns Commission without proper referencing. I assure you the rest of the article, the ref placement is sound. Good?--Loodog 04:18, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I can't think of any other suggestions or comments. The article is much improved since it was nominated. Good work. --Aude (talk) 18:23, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]


Thanks, everyone for the feedback and support. I think we have concensus. If there's an admin around, feel free to close this up.--Loodog 21:10, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That's not quite how it works. The Featured Article Director will make the determination on consensus. I also wouldn't mind if some more reviewers looked at the article. But don't have anything else to add or suggest myself, and think you have done a good job with the article. --Aude (talk) 21:14, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, ok.--Loodog 21:35, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - some available publishing dates of web sources are either missing or incorrect. Epbr123 23:22, 22 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Some points and concerns:
    • "Providence thrived postwar, waves of immigrants and land annexations brought the population from 54,595 in 1865 to 175,597 by 1900." sounds awkward and I don't think it is a proper paragraph. The Crime section also has two stubby paragraphs.
    • That "Matt Hyson" paragraph is the Sports section really comes out of nowhere. Why is that important to the city and justify a one-sentence paragraph?
    • The article doesn't mention anything about utilities. Where does the city get it drinking water from and sewage go to (I assume this is a service the city provides)? electricity, natural gas, anything?
    • Good Cityscape section. --maclean 01:08, 24 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
      • Follow up Done. Let me know if it's better.--Loodog 17:56, 25 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
        • Support. Those are minor concerns, nothing that should stop this from being featured. This is very well written article. You can place the info on drinking water and sewage disposal in the Geography section. Here is some info on sewage (pdf) --maclean 19:17, 25 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
          • Thanks Maclean, though I didn't see any info in there on present sewer utilities. So far as I read, it's a report from the 80s on the efforts to clean up the water, which did really need it. Unless you see something I didn't.--Loodog 04:53, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
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