Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Peter Badcoe/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Laser brain via FACBot (talk) 14 January 2020 [1].

Peter Badcoe

Nominator(s): Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:38, 20 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The most recent instalment in my series on South Australian Victoria and George Cross recipients, Peter Badcoe was the most recent South Australian awarded the Victoria Cross for gallantry. Badcoe's VC was awarded following three separate acts of extreme bravery over a three month period during the Vietnam War, the last action costing him his life. He was the only commissioned officer to be awarded the VC in Vietnam. This went through Milhist ACR in July, so hopefully the rough edges have been knocked off of it. Have at it. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:38, 20 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Just noting I'll be largely incommunicado 8-17 December, but will address any comments as soon as I get back from holidays. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:37, 7 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

Don't use fixed px size

Victoria Cross image has two alts, while the others have none. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:47, 23 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Removed the double-up and the fixed px size. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 00:08, 25 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Suggest adding alt text to the other images. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:47, 1 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Source review - spotchecks not done

How are you deciding which awards are listed in the infobox?

Yes, I hadn't really applied any science to that, I've trimmed it to the highest award from each country. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:23, 3 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The award citation quote is quite long

Unavoidable given he was awarded the VC for three separate actions. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:23, 3 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Be consistent in when/whether you include states in publication locations; country name is not necessary when state is included

I think I got these. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:23, 3 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Newspaper formatting generally needs editing for consistency

Not sure what you mean here, can you give an example? Some are hard copy and some are online papers, which may explain the differences? Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:23, 3 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

For example, Canberra Times has location but not publisher, while Sydney Morning Herald has publisher but not location, and London Gazette has neither. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:27, 3 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed these now, I think. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:43, 3 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

McNeill & Ekins title should use endash

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:23, 3 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Canberra Times issue is 11,968, not 11 and 968

This space seems to be a glitch in the syntax. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:23, 3 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

For reports and news items, if the source provides a specific date that should be included here, rather than just year. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:47, 1 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I think I got all these that are available. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:23, 3 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for looking at this, Nikkimaria, let me know about the formatting issue and anything else I've missed? Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:23, 3 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

CommentsSupport by CPA-5

He was also awarded the United States Silver Star --> "He has also awarded the United States Silver Star"
That's not right. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:33, 18 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Badcoe was advising a RF company --> "Badcoe was advising an RF company"?
I always get these wrong. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:33, 18 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
A Swedish sub-machine gun, his favourite, hung over one shoulder --> "A Swedish submachine gun, his favourite, hungover one shoulder"
Definitely not, hungover refers to a person recovering from drinking too much alcohol. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:33, 18 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Oh is it? Didn't know that also don't drink so I'm not really in alcohol English.

Yep, definitely refers to someone recovering from being drunk. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 21:48, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

were advising a RF company operation in the Phu Thu district --> "were advising an RF company operation in the Phu Thu district"
Same as above. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:33, 18 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Question I now realise shouldn't district be capitalised?

Yes, now done for consistency throughout when part of a proper name. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:08, 22 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

that the enemy were dug-in along a small rise --> "that the enemy was dug-in along with a small rise"?
Enemy can be either singular or plural, in this case it is plural, so were is the correct plural past indicative.

Another British English plural form?

enemy can be both singular and plural. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:09, 22 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:33, 18 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

--> "killed by a burst of machine gunfire"
"machine gun" is the compound noun from which the fire (verb) comes, so it should remain separate from the verb. Alternative approaches to the addition of a verb to a compound noun might be machinegun fire or machine-gun fire, but I tend to render the weapon as "machine gun", and tend to use the hyphenated form only for the compound verb, ie "Bloggs machine-gunned the aircraft". Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:33, 18 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

That's anything from me. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 12:05, 8 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I'm afraid we are not on the same page with all of these review comments, CPA-5. Happy to discuss anything of course. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:33, 18 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

No worries I'm also a human so I'll make mistakes or didn't know those stuff. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 17:52, 21 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Supporting, hope you had a great Christmas? Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 10:56, 30 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments by Ian

Recusing from coord duties, I wasn't involved in the MilHist ACR so this is really the first time I'm seeing this...

Copyedited so pls let me know any concerns. Aside from what I've done directly, I think you should consider attributing inline some of the praise, e.g.
- "Enthusiasm, courage and audacity were his hallmarks, and those around him were often infected by his optimism."
- "he was an inspirational leader who had saved the lives of his comrades and turned defeat into victory on many occasions"

Attributed both to Ian McNeill. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 21:46, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Tks PM. That works fine for the first instance, just wondering about the second that has three citations at the end. I didn't want to over-complicate things but the way it is now it looks like we have three sources saying McNeill thought this and I'm guessing that's not the case...? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 06:02, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hi PM, I don't think this has been addressed... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 12:54, 3 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the ping, Ian. It's not the case, you're right. I'm not clear on how the citations to McNeill's ADB entry and Macklin got there, but despite the fact I don't have The Team to hand, it must have come from there, because it is not in Macklin and I've checked the ADB. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 22:54, 5 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Re. the image captions:
- How did we verify that the Singapore picture was dated 1962? I can see it's so in Commons but the source image at AWM appears to be undated unless I missed something...
  It is an educated guess, based on his deployment to Malaya in that year. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 21:46, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Neither the Commons file nor the source USIA image seems to clearly identify the Vietnamese soldiers as South Vietnamese Regional Force so how are we certain of that?
  Pretty certain based on the date of the pic, their apparent age and length of recruit training, which was the same as the ARVN. PF training was shorter, and the PF were banned from recruiting in the 17-30 bracket in 1966. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 21:46, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Fine work overall as usual. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 04:47, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the c/e and review, Ian. Let me know if you think either of the captions need tweaking as a result of the above responses. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 21:46, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, look I agree that all this is perfectly plausible but I think if we're making educated guesses or reading into things based on what we see in a picture then we're getting into OR territory. I don't think it harms the first pic to lose the date, the main thing is it illustrates the subject and says where he is, so I suggest we trim the caption accordingly (and ideally remove the date from the Commons file too). The second pic presents a bit more of a challenge but I'd like to think we could reword to remove the RF reference. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 06:02, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Dropped date from the first, and changed RF to TF. They are clearly not ARVN. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:58, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Ian Rose: Should I expect further commentary from you? How are you feeling about the condition of the article? --Laser brain (talk) 13:40, 14 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Tks for the ping Andy -- yes, all good now I think. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 13:43, 14 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

All images appropriately licensed.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 00:10, 29 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support by JennyOz

Hi PM, I looked at this during Milhist ACR and cannot find much else to comment on...

Badcoe entered the Officer Cadet School, Portsea, on 12 July 1952 - was Badcock at this time ie not yet changed name but you are using Badcoe intentionally here?
- Thanks Jenny, I thought of this myself when reading the article but forgot to mention it in my comments. Since we have a specific year when he changed his name, I'd have thought it reasonable to use his birth name until we reach that point in the narrative. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 12:52, 3 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - Yes, not sure how I missed that. Fixed. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:12, 5 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
he wore horn-rimmed spectacles - maybe wlink Horn-rimmed glasses

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:12, 5 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

He returned to the 1st Field Regiment ... at Ingleburn, New South Wales. - not clear when he actually returned to Australia

"He returned to the 1st Field Regiment in November 1962"? Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:12, 5 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

last sentence, "In late 2019, a 60-bed residential aged care facility..." doesn't seem to have opened as yet (and not in Newcastle newspaper which you'd expect if there'd been an opening ceremony/dedication?). Change to 2020 or otherwise reword so it doesn't appear out of date?

Fixed. I've emailed them to ask when it is expected to open, but I think 2020 is reasonable for now. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:12, 5 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

None of the above is a concern so I am already happy to support promotion. Best wishes, JennyOz (talk) 06:36, 3 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for taking a look, Jenny. Let me know if I've misunderstood your query about when he came back to Australia? Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:12, 5 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No problems PM, just my ignorance of military matters:) So a 'Regiment' refers to home-base? JennyOz (talk) 11:28, 7 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, the regiment was still in Australia, only the battery (a sub-unit) went to Malaysia, Jenny. Do you think I need to tweak this bit to make it clearer? Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 23:51, 7 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support by Cas Liber

Taking a look now....

Promoted to temporary captain in 1958,[1] and substantive captain in June 1960,[4] from 1958 until 1961 he was a junior staff officer in the Directorate of Military Operations and Plans at Australian Army Headquarters. - this sentence parses oddly in this order. To me it'd be more natural to flow like, " A junior staff officer in the Directorate of Military Operations and Plans at Australian Army Headquarters from 1958 until 1961, he was promoted to temporary captain in 1958,[1] and substantive captain in June 1960,[4]."

~~During his short visit to South Vietnam~~ ~~- I'd omit "short" as you've established how long the trip was. In fact I'd also leave out "South Vietnam" here too as redundant.~~

~~Otherwise~~ looks in good shape comprehensiveness and prose-wise. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:13, 9 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Thanks Cas Liber! Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 23:19, 9 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@FAC coordinators: this is progressing well, can I have a dispensation for a fresh nom please? Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:47, 10 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That's fine. --Laser brain (talk) 17:43, 12 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. --Laser brain (talk) 14:11, 14 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.