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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was archived by Laser brain via FACBot (talk) 21 October 2019 [1].

Go Vacation

[edit]
Nominator(s): TheAwesomeHwyh 05:40, 17 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This is the third time I've nominated this article. The FAC immediately prior to this one failed mostly because of the need for a second copyedit, which the article has now gone through. TheAwesomeHwyh 05:40, 17 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Aoba47

[edit]
Resolved comments
  • Is there any particular reason for the citations in the infobox? I would imagine that all of the information regarding these release dates for different geographical areas and game systems should be included in the prose in the body of the article and cited there accordingly. Is there a reason why the body of the article does not address the game's release at all? I would also image the genre would be mentioned and sourced in the body of the article.
I would see if there is a way that you could more seamlessly incorporate that information into the section. The years in which the Wii and Switch versions were released should also be added, and I would clarify in the prose that the Switch version is a port. Aoba47 (talk) 02:32, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • For this sentence (Go Vacation[b] is a party video game that was developed and released by Namco Bandai Games for the Wii games console.), I would drop "that was" and "games console".
  • I think it may be better to just revise the lead sentence to say "a 2011 party video game" and remove this part (It was first released in North America on 11 October 2011) entirely.
  • For this part (Vehicles such as trolleys and bicycles can be piloted to access resorts), I would put "the" in front of "resorts".
  • For this part (Players can also customize their avatars and their virtual villas.), I am uncertain if "virtual" is needed since I would assume that it is clear from the context. I would also change it to "customize their avatars and villas".
  • This sentence (The game's Marine Resort was partly inspired by Hawaii, but it was not directly based on any real-world location.) seems slightly contradictory. The same goes for the sentence (No areas in the game were based on any real-world locations but parts of Marine Resort were inspired by Hawaii.) in the body of the article. It seems odd that it says a part of the game was based on Hawaii only to later say that none of the areas were based on any real-life locations.
  • A part of this sentence (The player first visits the Marine Resort, which contains many coves and beaches.) seems to repeat information from this earlier sentence (Players start the game in the Marine Resort and other locations are unlocked by completing a set number of minigames in the previous resorts.). It was already established that player start in Marine Resort so I do not think it needs to be repeated.
  • This part (The City Resort, which centers around extreme and leisure sports, the City Resort is the second and smallest resort) does not make sense. Maybe something was removed?
  • For this part (After playing twenty minigames, players gains access to their own virtual houses, called villas,), I would spell out "twenty" as "20" since the previous numbers are represented in numerals. The same comment applies for "ninety" in this part (Furniture is gained in sets, of which there are ninety.).
  • This image caption (A split screen view of four players having a water gun fight.) should not have a period because it is not a full sentence.
  • I do not understand why the "complete sense" quote is used twice.
  • This sentence ( To decide which activities to include in the game, the developers surveyed players in America, Europe, and Japan to ask them what they wanted in the game.) seems rather clunky. I would streamline it to (The developers conducted surveys in America, Europe, and Japan to determine what activities to include in the game.).
  • In the third paragraph of the "Reception" section, I would avoid starting two sentences in a row with (In his review of the X version).
  • I would wikilink "villas" in the body of the article if it is going to be linked in the lead.
  • These two sentences (Sterling criticized the NPCs for their design, calling them "faux anime characters" and "completely charmless". Reece also criticized the NPCs, writing, "even if you hop onto an ATV and plough into someone at full speed, they'll have very little to say for themselves when they get back on their feet".) are rather repetitive as they use a similar structure by repeating "criticized the NPCs".

I have only done a quick read-through of the article, but I have noticed several areas that need improvement. The biggest issue is how the body of the article does not address the game's release at all (either the original Wii release or the Switch port). I am also uncertain about the quality of the prose, but I will provide more commentary on that once the above comments are addressed. Aoba47 (talk) 21:28, 18 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I'm taking a short break now, I will continue addressing these concerns either later tonight or tomorrow. TheAwesomeHwyh 02:58, 19 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I'm back- I will try to continue working on this now. TheAwesomeHwyh 17:41, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry about my second absence. I will definitely try to finish this tomorrow. TheAwesomeHwyh 03:03, 25 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Eek! Apologies again, I did not mean to start this late. Nevertheless, I intend to finish this tonight. TheAwesomeHwyh 03:15, 26 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
"I'm late! I'm late! For a very important date! No time to say hello, goodbye! I'm late! I'm late! I'm late!" TheAwesomeHwyh 03:15, 26 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for addressing everything. I have collapsed the comments that have been resolved and brought down the one remaining. I will look through the article again sometime in the near future. I have concerns about the quality of the prose, but hopefully, that can be ironed out during this FAC. 04:28, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

  • After looking at the source, I have a better understanding of what is meant. However, I do not think it is clear at all when looking at the sentence (Producer Kenya Kobayashi opted for the name Go Vacation to convey activity.) in isolation. I do not understand what is meant by "activity". Maybe something like the following would be better, (After realizing the word "vacation" is frequently associated with relaxation, producer Kenya Kobayashi named the game Go Vacation to clarify that it was more active.), or something to that effect.
  • I would also change these sentences, (The game's title was intended to convey that players would want to "stay [in] for a long time". According to producer Kenya Kobayashi, the production team believed the word "vacation" has no connotations of activity outside Japan, so the team added "Go" to the beginning of the name.), to something like, (The game was originally titled Vacation before being changed to Go Vacation since people outside Japan associated the word "vacation" with leisure and relaxation. Producer Kenya Kobayashi said "Go" was added to the title to clarify that the game was more active), or something along those lines. I hope that clears things up. Aoba47 (talk) 04:40, 26 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think these two sentences (Vehicles such as trolleys and bicycles can be piloted to access the resorts. Players can also customize their avatars and their villas.) can be combined to something like (Players can pilot vehicles, such as trolley and bicycles, to access different resorts, and customize their avatars and virtual houses known villas.).
  • For this sentence (The included minigames are based on surveys taken in America, Europe, and Japan; players voted on which sports or activities should be included.), I do not believe the first “included” is needed.
  • I looked at the reference for the Hawaii inspiration, and Masaya Kobayashi said the Marine Resort might be inspired by Hawaii. Here is the sentence from the source: (There’s no place in particular that we used as a reference, but for example the Marine Resort might be inspired by things you find in Hawaii). I do not believe this statement is strong enough to support the information in the article about the Hawaii/Marine Resort link. If it is kept, it should be qualified that Kobayashi said that player might associate the resort with Hawaii to avoid a misinterpretation that this was a conscious part of the game's development.
  • I do not think “Upon release” is necessary in the lead.
  • For this part (praised its multiplayer aspects and its creativity), I do not believe the second “its” is needed.
  • Can you point me to where this part (corrected problems with the original version of the game) is covered in the article? I cannot see where the Switch corrections is discussed, but I am probably just reading/looking over it. Aoba47 (talk) 04:59, 26 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have a few comments for this sentence (Players start the game in the Marine Resort and other locations are unlocked by completing a set number of minigames in the previous resorts.). I would replace “players” with they” to avoid repetition from the previous sentence. I would add a link to “minigames”, and a putt a comma after “Resort”. I would also remove “in the previous resorts” part as I do not believe it is necessary.
    • I've removed the bit about the previous resorts but have not linked to minigames- I am under the assumption that things in articles are only supposed to be linked to once. Not sure what you mean about the comma. TheAwesomeHwyh 05:33, 26 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • I do not see where minigames is linked in the body of the article, and this is the first time it is mentioned in the body of the article. Aoba47 (talk) 05:35, 26 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • I only recommended the comma because the sentence has two different ideas/thoughts so it would clearly separate them (Players start the game in the Marine Resort, and other locations are unlocked by completing a set number of minigames in the previous resorts.) Aoba47 (talk) 05:37, 26 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • For this sentence (The island can be navigated at leisure by walking or by riding on vehicles, the type of which depends on the resort.), I would say “at the player’s leisure”. Would it also be fair to replace “the type of which depends on the resort” with something like “which are unique to each resort”? I have not played the game so if the same vehicle type is used for multiple resorts, then my suggestion would not work. Saying “which varies depending on the resort” may be a good option as well.
    • I think that the vehicles are exclusive but I can't check right now- I had a problem with my Switch a few months back and had to erase all my save data. I haven't bothered to replay the game and I think I only have the Marine and maybe City resorts unlocked on this save. I have changed it to "at the players leisure". TheAwesomeHwyh 05:38, 26 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think these two sentences (The Snow Resort is the third resort the player visits; it focuses on winter sports, hosting games such as ski jumping, snow tubing, snowboarding, snowmobiling, and snowball fighting.) can be combined into something like this: (The third resort, Snow Resort, focuses on winter sports like ski jumping, snow tubing, snowboarding, snowmobiling, and snowball fighting.)
  • I have two comments for this part (which may be decorated with furniture or photographs that were taken during the game). I think “can” is a better fit than “may” and I would remove “that were” to just say “photographs taken during the game”.
  • For this part (Furniture can be found in the game's world or may be unlocked using "silver keys”), I would remove “may be”.
  • I would avoid starting two sentences in a row with “Furniture” if possible. If there is not a way to avoid this, then it is not a major issue.
  • I would move this sentence (Treasure chests containing outfits for the players' avatars are scattered around the resorts) to the preceding paragraph. The current one is all about the villas so the sentence does not really fit there, while the one directly before has information about the avatars so it seems like a more likely fit there. Aoba47 (talk) 05:28, 26 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • For this part "Go Vacation was revealed at the 2011 Electronic Entertainment Expo (E3)", I would use "announced" rather than "revealed".
  • I have a question about this part (Part of the game's development was outsourced to other companies). Doe we know what these other companies were or what parts of the game's development were outsourced?
    • Nope. And we might not ever- this game is so obscure that I'm pretty sure that the information on this page is literally all of the information known about the game, so I'm not hopeful in terms of finding a source that says what companies it is. I could check the game's credits, but I'm pretty sure that would run afoul of our WP:OR rule as a synthesis of sources. TheAwesomeHwyh 19:33, 2 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would remove this sentence (The game's title was intended to convey that players would want to "stay [in] for a long time".) since the same information is already present in the following sentence. I would also avoid using quotes that are from translated articles. I do not know if there is a Wikipedia policy about it, but unless you are a language expert (in Japanese in this case), I am uncertain if a translated quote would be appropriate.
  • I would revise this sentence (While not meant to be a direct copy of Hawaii, Kobayashi has stated that parts of the Marine Resort "might be" inspired by it.) to something like (The resorts were not directly based on any real-life locations, although Kobayashi said the Marine Resort "might be inspired by things you find in Hawaii".). I think putting the quote in full would be a better compromise between our interpretations of the text.
  • I would revise this sentence (Kobayashi has suggested that parts of the game "might be" inspired by Hawaii, but is not intended to be a direct copy of it.) to something like (Although the resorts were not directly based on real-life locations, Kobayashi said Hawaii was a possible influence for the Marine Resort.).
  • I would remove the "Hawaii" wikilink in the lead.
  • "Port" is wikilinked in the lead, but I would also do the same in the "Development" section.
  • I would put the paragraph on the game's release prior to the one on the soundtrack.
  • For these part (It released on 11 October) and (where it released on 27 December), it should be "it was released".

That should cover everything up to the "Reception" section. Let me know if you have any questions. Apologies again for all of the comments. Just trying to help as much as possible. Have a great rest of your day and/or night! Aoba47 (talk) 23:31, 26 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Whoops, I completely forgot to log on yesterday! It's getting pretty late here so I'm not sure if I can finish all of this today, but I'll try. TheAwesomeHwyh 04:41, 28 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
One moment- I'm having some issues with the visual editor. It wont let me replace text. TheAwesomeHwyh 04:55, 28 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Not sure why this is happening. I'm probably not going to be able to work on this for now but I am going to troubleshoot this and will inform you once I figure this out. TheAwesomeHwyh 05:05, 28 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
No worries, take as much time as you need. The visual editor was acting up for me a few days. I am not sure if there is an issue with the system, but it somehow got better for me after a day. Hopefully, it works out for you on your end. Aoba47 (talk) 01:49, 29 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, my visual editor is still acting very strangely too. I wonder what is causing it. Aoba47 (talk) 22:35, 30 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I think I'm just going to use the source editor for now. Will continue in a bit. TheAwesomeHwyh 19:25, 2 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I'm almost done, but do you think you could put all of your next comments in a separate heading? It's getting a bit hard to read and edit this page. TheAwesomeHwyh 19:55, 2 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I do no think it is encouraged to have subsections/separate headings for an FAC, but I am not entirely sure tbh. Aoba47 (talk) 18:36, 3 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would combine these two sentences (The Marine Resort contains many coves and beaches. It is largely themed around watersports such as beach volleyball, surfing, water gun battles, and Marine bike races.) to something like (The Marine Resort, which contains coves and beaches, is themed around watersports, including beach volleyball, surfing, water gun battles, and Marine bike races.).
  • The following parts "shortly after We Ski & Snowboard was released because the developers felt they had not given players a "complete sense" of winter in the previous game." and "When discussing ways to address this, the developers decided winter alone was not enough; they wanted to depict other seasons" to be somewhat awkwardly phrased. I would revisit the prose here, and try to think of different ways of phrasing these parts.
    • I agree. However, I spent over 30 minutes trying to address this and honestly couldn't figure out how. I tried tons of different ways to structure the sentence but each time it just ended up being just as bad, or worse than it was before. Sorry, but I don't think I can fix this one. TheAwesomeHwyh 04:07, 17 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • For this part (it was the first time for Namco Bandai Games, whose staff had worked on the Ridge Racer series.), I am confused on what "the first time" is referencing. Could you clarify this for me?
  • I am uncertain about this sentence (The Switch version also included some new features; the ability to take photographs of animals, fish, and find boxes with rewards in them.). A part of this is already mentioned in the "Gameplay" section, so I would move any of the new information (i.e. "and find boxes with rewards in them") to there instead and remove the sentence from here.
  • The lead mentions that problems were fixed in the Switch port, but the body of the article only discusses the features that were added for the Switch port.

I have moved down the comments that have not been addressed yet, and put the ones that have been resolved in the collapsible box to hopefully make this easier to navigate. Apologies for the trouble. Aoba47 (talk) 21:06, 3 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • I am a little confused on why an IGN citation is added on to this sentence "Mark Reece of Nintendo Life said the minigames were not fun to play due to "a poorly conceived or unintuitive control scheme".".
  • Something about "the game's roller skates" sounds odd in this sentence "Reviewing the Switch version, Alessandra Borgonovo of IGN Italia praised the game's roller skates, saying that they were fun to use.". I would look it over again. Also, I would make it clearer how this fits in a paragraph about the controls.
  • Remember to italicize IGN for each instance.
  • I would move this sentence "Daan Koopman of Nintendo World Report noted that the controls are one of the "biggest improvements over the original"." before the IGN one as it is a more natural transition into talking about the Switch port.
  • I have a few comments about this part "Others also criticized the minigames for an apparent lack of quality,". It should be a separate sentence so that comma at the end should be a period.←I am also a little uncertain if this sentence is needed at all as it does introduce several issues like who is being referenced with "Others" and there should be a citation with this part to avoid people thinking it is original research.
  • For this part "In reviewing the game's soundtrack album", I do not think "album" is needed.
  • For this part "Craddock, in his review of the Switch version, compared them to the house customization mechanics of the Animal Crossing series.", I am confused on why the IGN España is used.
  • I do not think the "According to Drake" sentence structure works for this: "According to Drake, the game's island is "where everyone but yourself is actually a robot", referring to a lack of interaction with NPCs.". Aoba47 (talk) 21:17, 3 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I am sorry this took me so long, I will address these today. TheAwesomeHwyh 17:10, 13 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
No worries, take as much time as you need. Aoba47 (talk) 12:09, 14 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, I didn't get to finish it that day but I'm hoping I'll be able to do it tonight. TheAwesomeHwyh 02:57, 16 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I'm almost done. I think I'll be able to finish this tomorrow. TheAwesomeHwyh 04:14, 16 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. Aoba47 (talk) 23:36, 16 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
​Alright, everything has been done. I couldn't find a solution to a few of them, but I think I've adequately addressed the bulk of your concerns. TheAwesomeHwyh 04:11, 17 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Looks like I missed one, but I've done it now. TheAwesomeHwyh 04:14, 17 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for addressing my comments. I have a few suggestions, which I will leave below:

  • I do not believe this part, "Some reviewers, however, praised the customizable villas", is supported by a citation. The specific mention of multiple reviewers praising the villas does not appear to cited as there is only a single citation (for the Nintendo Life).
  • I am uncertain about the use of the Nintendo Life citation in the paragraph about the villas. The following is the quote from the source on the villas: "This, in turn, presents you with cosmetic rewards such as different clothing styles for your Mii, or even keys that can be used to unlock furniture for your own little villa that can be accessorised Animal Crossing-style." I do not believe this type of information belongs in the reception section as the source is not really providing critical commentary on the villas. From my understanding, the citation is providing a comparison to help readers better understand the basic concept of the villas. It may be better to move this Animal Crossing comparison to the villa-focused paragraph in the "Gameplay" section instead.
  • It may be helpful to add a topic sentence to the final paragraph of the reception section and the paragraph on the critical response to the soundtrack/music. I am not saying you have to, but it is a point to think about in the future.
  • I am uncertain about this part, "Reviewing the Wii version, Chris Watters, a writer for GameSpot, was mostly positive about the minigames, saying that "most are decent", but that some had succumbed to "an awkward camera" or "unresponsive controls". because I do not GameSpot has a "mostly positive" response to the minigames given these quotes from the review being cited: "most of the minigames are too shallow and simplistic to inspire repeat play" and "it becomes clear that it's all very shallow and simplistic because Go Vacation's minigames don't reach the enjoyable heights of their forebears". If anything, I think GameSpot had a mostly negative reaction to the minigames.
  • The word "conversely" does not make sense in this part: "Conversely, Nintendo Life's Ryan Craddock felt that they are "an undercooked version of things we've seen countless times before." "Conversely" is typically used to suggestion a juxtaposition of a previous idea, and that does not appear to be the case here.
  • I am uncertain about this sentence "Critics were mixed on the game's minigames." because a majority of the reviews cited in the paragraph are more negative than positive from what I can see.
  • I would encourage you to revisit the paragraph on the reception to the controls. It kind of jumps around a lot, and I would try seeing if the information could flow more into a cohesive narrative. For instance, it may be helpful to move this part: "Alessandra Borgonovo of IGN Italia praised the controls for the roller skates, saying that they were fun to use." behind the Audrey Drake review as they are both praising the controls for traveling around the resorts.

Unfortunately, I am currently taking a short wikibreak (for at least a month) to focus on some off-Wikipedia work. I am in the process of applying for jobs and debating on going back to school so I will not have the time or energy to adequately complete this review.

I hope that my comments have helped, and apologies for not seeing this through until completion. Good luck with the nomination, and I hope that it attracts more reviewers. It may be helpful to reach out to the WikiProjects or to editors experienced in video game FACs. I would recommend pinging some of the past reviewers from the previous FACs as a start. Apologies again, but if I am unable to put my full attention on the review, then I feel like I would be doing you (and all of the work you have put into this article) a real disservice. Have a great rest of your week! Aoba47 (talk) 05:01, 17 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for everything! Your comments have helped immensely! TheAwesomeHwyh 05:28, 17 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Anytime. I have enjoyed working with you, and I look forward to your future projects on here. Hopefully, we can work together again in the future. Aoba47 (talk) 05:39, 17 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Pinging everyone who participated in previous GAC's and FAC's: @J Milburn:, @SchroCat:, @JDC808:, @Lee Vilenski:, @Nikkimaria:, and @Namcokid47:. TheAwesomeHwyh 19:38, 17 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from JM

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I'm sorry you've not had much of a response at this (or the previous) FAC. I'll only speak for myself: I wasn't going to comment, as I worry that this is still not really where I'd expect a video game article to be for FA status. I didn't want to turn up and "sink" the nomination. In case you're interested, an excellent FA about a video game, in my view, is Limbo (video game) - a nice example, too, as that's far from a triple-A. Infinity Blade is also good, and perhaps of a more comparable length to this article.

  • I'm not convinced that the lead really summarises the article. It doesn't really have enough about the gameplay; I know about resorts, but I only know about minigames (which are basically the whole game, no?) because of a mention of surveys. Meanwhile, there's some relatively unimportant material - the reason for the name, Hawaii as an influence...
  • The writing is better, but things perhaps aren't structured as well as they could be. For example: "More than 50 activities are available on the island, including bungee jumping, ice fishing, scuba diving, miniature golf, tennis, off-road racing, and snowman building.[3] Winning some minigames unlocks more challenging modes.[5]" I know the "activities" are the minigames, but it feels like you're telling me about a relatively minor issue (difficulties unlocked by completing minigames) before you've told me what the minigames are, what their role in the game is, how you play them, even what it means to "win" them. Another example: Para 2 of development feels like bullet points... It just doesn't really flow. (And: "At one point in its development, Go Vacation had over 10,000 bugs.[19]" Is this significant?)
  • The development section feels very light. It's only really the first two paragraphs that contain (underdeveloped!) production information; the announcement and release details belong in the article (and perhaps the section) but they're not really the same thing. The music discussion, on the other hand, is a little mystifying. The first sentence ("The soundtrack of Go Vacation consists of instrumental and vocal tracks from composers, musicians, and vocal artists, including Taku Inoue, Norihiko Hibino, Aubrey Ashburn, and Jody Whitesides.") is very vague. The rest of it seems to be basically irrelevant. Even if the album contains tracks from Go Vacation (which isn't explictly mentioned) it probably doesn't warrant extensive discussion in this article. Compare it to development sections in other video gaming FAs, like the ones I mentioned above.
    • This is my second time writing this response. The first time around, I had a massive wall of text going over why I didn't think I could possibly get any more info out of the existing interviews, but I honestly think I wasn't being optimistic enough. I'm going to try to re-read both interviews within a few days and see what extra information I can find in them. I'll also try to make the music section less vague. TheAwesomeHwyh 04:42, 20 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • There may be more sources to find (there are lots of video game magazines out there...), or it may be that there just isn't much content in the public domain. If the latter, then I worry that this might be an article that it's going to be very difficult to get to FA level. Josh Milburn (talk) 07:16, 20 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry to be the voice of doom and gloom. This makes a decent GA, but I'm worried that it's going to take a push to get to FA, which may be very tricky. Josh Milburn (talk) 16:18, 19 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinator comment - This has been open for over a month, and doesn't seem to be heading in the right direction at present. Therefore, I will be archiving it shortly and it may be re-nominated after the customary two-week waiting period. In the mean time, please action feedback as appropriate. --Laser brain (talk) 11:43, 21 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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