Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/George Gosse/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ealdgyth via FACBot (talk) 7 July 2020 [1].

George Gosse

Nominator(s): Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:33, 22 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Nearing the end of my project to get all twelve South Australian Victoria and George Cross recipients to FA. Gosse is the only one from the Royal Australian Navy. He was a naval mine clearance specialist who served in the RAN in the interwar period and WWII. In April 1945 he was given command of a naval party responsible for mine clearance in the recently captured Bremen Harbour in Germany. He displayed courage in defusing three mines under very difficult conditions between 8 May and 19 May 1945, which resulted in him being awarded the George Cross, the highest award for heroism or courage, not in the face of the enemy, that could be awarded to a member of the Australian armed forces at the time. Have at it. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:33, 22 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Image review—pass

All images are free. b uidhe 10:55, 22 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Gog the Mild

Nb, I intend to use this review to claim points in the WikiCup.

"the RAN College" The abbreviation (I assume that it is an abbreviation) is not bracketed after first mention.
Is it worth linking "acting" to Acting (rank) for readers not militarily inclined?

These done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:04, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Is there any more detail about why failing the lieutenant's exam at first attempt ended his naval career?

No, but competition was fierce in the regular RAN between the wars, and his lack of application probably cruelled it for him. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:04, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Is there any information on why Gosse reenlisted when he did? More than a year after the start of the war, but before Pearl Harbour.

No. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:04, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"In February 1942, he had been promoted to provisional lieutenant" The change of tense jars. Is there any reason why this is not mentioned in chronological order?

No, fixed. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:04, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"the European port clearance diving base for the Royal Navy" Any chance of a, preferably, in line or, failing that, footnoted explanation of "clearance diving"?

added a source and a sentence explaining it. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:04, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"which had to be extracted about 18 inches (460 mm) down a 2-inch (51 mm) wide tube". Should there be 'from' after "extracted"?

Yes, fixed. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:04, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Is it known who recommended him for his George Cross and/or when?

Not in sources. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:04, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"substantively promoted" I'm not sure that this will mean much to an "average reader".

added link to Military rank#Types

Nice one. Gog the Mild (talk) 16:08, 26 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the review as always, Gog! Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:04, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No problem. Your articles, like this one, are usually easy to review, enjoyable to read and educational. Gog the Mild (talk) 10:00, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

CommentsSupport by CPA-5

Hmm, haven't I seen this man before? I think I did. What do you think?

and experience with the Royal Navy Add here British before Royal.
the 2nd South Australian Mounted Rifles in the Second Boer War Mention here that the war took place in South Africa.
for further training with the Royal Navy Add here British again.
acting lieutenant commander on 30 September 1945, and was demobilised on 20 March 1946 After he defused the last mine what happened in that almost-full year?
He brought a Japanese mine back with him to the UK Pipe Japan to the Empire of Japan.
to the success of a most difficult and important operation I don't know if this is part of the quote but there's an extra space here.
Gosse was part of an armed forces recruiting campaign Pretty odd sentence. Shouldn't it be "an armed force"?

No, it's a reference to the Australian armed forces, I've specified and added a link to ADF. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 04:32, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That's anything from me. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 19:48, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for taking a look, CPA-5. All done except the bit about what he did for the rest of 1945 and early 1946, presumably mine clearance and related duties, but sources (including his navy records) don't say. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 04:32, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Peacemaker67: That sounds a little bit sad to hear maybe in the near future we would know what he did at that moment. I don't have a reason to not support this and I'd say give yourself a pet on your back for your work. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 13:50, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from AustralianRupert

Support: G'day, PM, I only have a few minor comments/suggestions: AustralianRupert (talk) 22:50, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

in the infobox should the years of service be adjusted to 1958 when he retired from the RANVR?
in the lead, suggest starting a new paragraph at "In 1940, he joined..."
suggest starting a new paragraph here: "He was promoted to acting lieutenant commander on 30 September 1945"

Above done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:36, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

do we know when he returned to Australia?

Unclear. His records indicate he was TOS HMAS Torrens (naval depot in Adelaide) in March 1946 just prior to demobilisation, so perhaps not long before that. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:36, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No worries, thanks for looking. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 03:55, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

His work was mostly "unspectacular" -- suggest attributing this opinion in the body of the article

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:36, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

do we know what is official occupation was when he enlisted in 1940, and again in the post war period?

Again, unclear, pre-war ADB says he "knocked around" and resisted serious employment, and I added "designer" for post-war, as his ADB entry uses that. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:36, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

in the References, "Up Top: the Royal Australian Navy and Southeast Asian conflicts, 1955–1972" --> "Up Top: The Royal Australian Navy and Southeast Asian Conflicts, 1955–1972"

Fixed. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:36, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for taking a look, AR! Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:36, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No worries, added my support above. Thanks for your efforts. AustralianRupert (talk) 03:55, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Source review – pass

"Ashcroft, Michael (2012)" is listed in the sources, but not used in the footnotes. The ISBN listed here does not match the one in the Google books version linked to.

Caught me adding material after this source was brought to my attention by Dumelow. Fixed the ISBN to match the ecopy I now have and dropped the url. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:40, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Why is one newspaper source ("Recruiting Speaker Collapses". The Border Watch.) listed in the references with a short link in the footnotes, while another ("No. 37549". The London Gazette.) is included in full in the footnotes?

Bloody good question. Fixed. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:40, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I think you'll need to remove the comma from the year in the issue number for ""Recruiting Speaker Collapses". The Border Watch.", for some reason it is adding a blank space after the comma which makes it unclear what the number is.

Neither is really suitable or per MOS (I'll raise it with the template wonks), but I think it is more MOS-compliant with the comma and space for now. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:40, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The MOS does not require grouping, only consistency. My issue with it as it appears is that it look like two numbers. I had to go into the wiki code to see what it was meant to be telling me. Harrias ^talk 09:53, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
On the subject of consistency, removing the comma would match "No. 37549" from the London Gazette, so I don't see how it would be a problem. Harrias ^talk 09:55, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

OK, done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 10:00, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

In "Turner, John Frayn (2010)." the hyphen in the year range in the title needs to become an endash. Also, why is "Casemate" listed as the publisher, rather than Pen & Sword?

First one fixed, but the Google Books link goes to the Casemate one with that ISBN, so I'm not sure what you are getting at? Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:40, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The Google summary does say Casemate, but from what I can see, the book itself only lists Pen & Sword, and I would trust the book over a Google summary. Harrias ^talk 09:53, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I checked Worldcat, it says all editions by Pen & Sword, so I've changed it. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 10:00, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Navy Divers, by Gregor Salmon has an interesting nugget claiming that Gosse wasn't even aware of being awarded the medal immediately after, though it doesn't look the highest quality source.

Actually that's not bad, also published by Ebury and Random House, so have included it and some detail from it, nice find! Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:40, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I know there's only so many ways of saying plain facts, but I'm not keen on the similarity below:
- Source: "On 21 October 1940 he enlisted as an ordinary seaman in the Royal Australian Naval Volunteer Reserve."
- Article: "On 21 October 1940, Gosse enlisted as an ordinary seaman in the Royal Australian Naval Volunteer Reserve."
  - Not sure much can be done about that, I've put the date at the end and added a word. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:40, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I would attribute the view that he was a "law unto himself" to Crawford.
- Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:40, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That's it from me. Harrias ^talk 08:08, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the source review, Harrias, a couple of queries/quibbles above. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:40, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Peacemaker67: Replied back. Harrias ^talk 09:53, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed both, Harrias. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 10:00, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm happy to pass the source review now. The article uses a consistent referencing format, is sourced to high-quality reliable sources, does not appear to omit any major research of coverage of the subject, and spotchecks reveal no significant copyvio or close para-phrasing other than the minor point noted and resolved. NB: I will claim WikiCup points for this review. Harrias ^talk 10:03, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks again! Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 10:06, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@FAC coordinators: this is travelling well, can I have a dispensation for a fresh nom please? Thanks, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 10:06, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through.

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.