Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Fallout 4: Far Harbor/archive2
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The article was promoted by Sarastro1 via FACBot (talk) 20:49, 8 June 2017 [1].
- Nominator(s): Anarchyte (work | talk) 10:17, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
Hello, this is the second Featured Article nomination for this article. Since the previous nomination, the article has gone through a few small expansions, and been proof-read multiple times by a couple of editors. I think it's at the standard of an FA, though I'd love to hear the opinions of everyone else. If you've got any ideas for the article, please list them! Recently, I've received a bit of FAC mentoring from HJ Mitchell, who also helped with the final stretch. Anarchyte (work | talk) 10:17, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
- As mentioned, I've been helping Anarchyte with some of the preparation and advising on FAC. It's the first time I've "mentored" another nominator, so please let me know if I've missed something. I'll watchlist this review and offer input if I think it might be useful. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 10:54, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
- Also, support. I've been through this thoroughly looking for the sorts of thing I've seen hold up FACs before and and I left some detailed comments on the peer review. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 10:54, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
Comments from Aoba47
[edit]Addressed comments from Aoba47
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- Thank you for addressing my comments. I can definitely support this. I would greatly appreciate any comments for current FAC. Hope you have a wonderful rest of your day. Aoba47 (talk) 15:00, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
Misc. from Czar
[edit]- There is a lot of weight put on the setting/endings (if not the plot too)—it's longer than the other sourced sections... I can't imagine why it shouldn't be shorter. Also are there really no sources available for these unsourced parts? Plot doesn't need to be sourced, but it should be verifiable in text if it can. Even a player's guide for the endings, if one's available, would work.
czar 18:18, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
- @Czar: I've shortened both sections and added a few sources. IMO the length isn't undue, it only talks about what is necessary. Anarchyte (work | talk) 02:07, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
- Haven't read through (still deciding whether I want to spoil the ending) but sources like "Fallout 4: Far Harbor DLC – how to get the best ending" are exactly what I had in mind, so should be good. Those sources also make make the section a good example of how to source plot. A few other cursory points: I'd remove Game Rant (unreliable). Also from what I see at a glance, check the current WT:VG thread about FAC Reception writing re: removing some of the reviewer names, combining sentences & refs, etc. (I know I've gave comments last year, but it's a brave new FAC world) czar 02:57, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
- @Czar: I've removed the Game Rant source. As for the reception section, I based it off your FA Blast Corps, in a way. I'll read over the discussion you linked me and I'll attempt to make the section more stream-lined. Anarchyte (work | talk) 03:27, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
- @Czar: Okay, I've gone through and tried to streamline some of the contents. I've also bundled up the references to be at the end of the sentence if it mentions two different websites, unless there's a quotation. Opinion? Anarchyte (work | talk) 06:33, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
- The combinations look good but I'd go further and crunch the sentences to remove the reviewer names. However, it's fine to wait and see what other readers would think first. Even as someone familiar with games, I hate carrying the reviewer name in my head when the individual is not necessarily important to understanding the statement. The sentiment is more that one reliable reviewer made a claim, and perhaps that reviewer is associated with a publication (hence why the Blast Corps Reception is light on reviewer names—notice that Donkey Kong 64's Reception is even lighter). So I hesitate at giving a strong prescription on those points, but I do think it's easier to read the fog paragraph, for instance, when I'm not juggling reviewer names and am instead focusing on how it annoyed one reviewer, was complimented by another, and was deemed manageable by yet another. (It's also unclear whether "atmosphere" is referring to the game's ambiance or the literal foggy atmosphere, based on the paragraph.) czar 16:22, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
- @Czar: I see where you're coming from, but if we remove who said what doesn't it become an issue of "reviewers[who?] thought that x was good but y was bad"? I'll see what other's opinions are first. Cheers, Anarchyte (work | talk) 06:46, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
- Sounds good. To answer the question, not necessarily. If the answer is to replace reviewers with two surnames that mean nothing to the reader, it both doesn't illuminate new information while simultaneously making the prose worse (heat without light, etc.) And if "reviewers" is too summative or creates bias, "some reviewers thought" or a variation is an alternative. It's easy to tell which from the references. The point is to explain the game's reception when no source sums it up for us, not necessarily to give an accounting of who thought what. czar 06:56, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
- @Czar: I see where you're coming from, but if we remove who said what doesn't it become an issue of "reviewers[who?] thought that x was good but y was bad"? I'll see what other's opinions are first. Cheers, Anarchyte (work | talk) 06:46, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
- The combinations look good but I'd go further and crunch the sentences to remove the reviewer names. However, it's fine to wait and see what other readers would think first. Even as someone familiar with games, I hate carrying the reviewer name in my head when the individual is not necessarily important to understanding the statement. The sentiment is more that one reliable reviewer made a claim, and perhaps that reviewer is associated with a publication (hence why the Blast Corps Reception is light on reviewer names—notice that Donkey Kong 64's Reception is even lighter). So I hesitate at giving a strong prescription on those points, but I do think it's easier to read the fog paragraph, for instance, when I'm not juggling reviewer names and am instead focusing on how it annoyed one reviewer, was complimented by another, and was deemed manageable by yet another. (It's also unclear whether "atmosphere" is referring to the game's ambiance or the literal foggy atmosphere, based on the paragraph.) czar 16:22, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
- Haven't read through (still deciding whether I want to spoil the ending) but sources like "Fallout 4: Far Harbor DLC – how to get the best ending" are exactly what I had in mind, so should be good. Those sources also make make the section a good example of how to source plot. A few other cursory points: I'd remove Game Rant (unreliable). Also from what I see at a glance, check the current WT:VG thread about FAC Reception writing re: removing some of the reviewer names, combining sentences & refs, etc. (I know I've gave comments last year, but it's a brave new FAC world) czar 02:57, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
- @Czar: I've shortened both sections and added a few sources. IMO the length isn't undue, it only talks about what is necessary. Anarchyte (work | talk) 02:07, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
Comments by Famous Hobo
[edit]Addressed comments from Famous Hobo
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Lead
Gameplay
Synopsis
Development
Reception
That should be a good first read through. Looks promising so far. The article seems to be in better condition then when it was first nominated, and I think it's almost there. Famous Hobo (talk) 17:58, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
Alright, good work so far. Here's another batch of comments.
@Famous Hobo: Cheers for the new points. I've left replies above. Anarchyte (work | talk) 07:45, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
Alright, we're getting really close, just a few more things I need to bring up.
Once those points are addressed, I'll support. BTW, you can check alt text with the handy dandy altviewer. Famous Hobo (talk) 06:47, 30 April 2017 (UTC)
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I'll stop pestering you about the screenshot, as it does it's job. Since all of my comments have been addressed, I'll Support. Good job, and I hope everything goes well from here on out. I know the struggle of working on an FAC. Famous Hobo (talk) 07:48, 30 April 2017 (UTC)
@FAC coordinators: Well, it's been open for a while and it hasn't received any more comments, opinions? Anarchyte (work | talk) 06:21, 5 May 2017 (UTC)
- FAC is a bit of a waiting game. A month to six weeks is not unusual but I doubt the FAC coordinators would consider this to have had sufficient input yet. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:27, 5 May 2017 (UTC)
Comments from Jaguar
[edit]Addressed comments from Jaguar
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Those were all of the minor nitpicks I could find during my first read through this article. Overall it is comprehensive, well written and engaging. I noticed a couple of refs are missing publishers but that's minor. Once all of the above are out of the way then I'll take another look at this and will most likely support! JAGUAR 10:48, 9 May 2017 (UTC)
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Thanks for addressing them! I'll happily lend my support now. Quite impressed with the reception section too—it reads as cohesive prose rather than a list of reviewers themselves. Definitely preferable for a FA in my opinion. JAGUAR 14:28, 9 May 2017 (UTC)
Coordinator comment: I was looking at this with a view to promotion but hit a few issues in the lead. I think I'd like a few more eyes on the prose before we promote this.
Addressed comments from Sarastro1
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Nothing major, but I'd like someone to take another look just to be sure. Sarastro1 (talk) 22:03, 12 May 2017 (UTC) |
- @Sarastro1: Cheers for the pointers. I've tried to fix them up. What's your opinion now? Anarchyte (work | talk) 01:11, 13 May 2017 (UTC)
- @Sarastro1: In case you forgot. Anarchyte (work | talk) 12:46, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
- I didn't forget, but I was looking for further comment on this rather than doing so myself, for it needs further review. I'd rather not give further examples for the moment or I'd have to recuse as coordinator. Sarastro1 (talk) 21:53, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
Comments from Moisejp
[edit]Addressed comments from Moisejp
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Lead:
Gameplay:
More comments to follow. Moisejp (talk) 01:51, 26 May 2017 (UTC)
Development and release:
Reception:
Similarities with Autumn Leaves:
That's all my comments for now, thanks. Moisejp (talk) 06:39, 26 May 2017 (UTC)
I'm staisfied with all of your above changes and replies, thank you. Remaining minor comments:
Thank you for the review, Moisejp. I've responded to the new comments above. Anarchyte (work | talk) 05:16, 28 May 2017 (UTC) |
OK, I'm ready to support now. You've addressed all of my concerns, and I feel the article is much better shape. I've also made several copy-edits myself during the review. Nice work on the article. Moisejp (talk) 05:42, 28 May 2017 (UTC)
- Thanks! Anarchyte (work | talk) 09:32, 28 May 2017 (UTC)
Coord notes
[edit]Hi, unless I've missed them, we'll need the following checks before considering promotion:
- Image licensing review
- Source review for formatting and reliability
- Spotcheck of sources for accurate use and avoidance of plagiarism or close paraphrasing (an extra hoop to jump through as I believe this would be the nominator's first FA if successful)
All of these can be requested at the top of WT:FAC. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 14:46, 29 May 2017 (UTC)
- Images are in order. Three non-free images is maybe more than normal for an article of this size, but all are used to illustrate vital concepts for which text alone wouldn't be adequate and all have appropriate fair-use rationales. The remaining image is freely licensed via Flickr. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:00, 29 May 2017 (UTC)
Source review from Jaguar
[edit]As requested, I'll comb through the article's sources to see if they're all reliable and formatted correctly:
Addressed source review from Jaguar
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All of the sources are listed at WP:VG/S and are therefore reliable. I've spent some time checking the sources to make sure they back up what is mentioned in the article and everything checks out, just like I thought it would. The above points are minor nitpicks so with that aside I'll be more than happy to support on the sourcing side of things. JAGUAR 11:47, 2 June 2017 (UTC)
- @Jaguar: Thank you for the source review. I've gone ahead and fixed up everything you mentioned
. Anarchyte (work | talk) 12:02, 2 June 2017 (UTC)
Coordinator comments: A fairly minor couple of points, but still seeing little issues. First, the link for Nuka-Cola redirects to the List of fictional beverages but this does not include Nuka-Cola. Also, Nuka-Cola is named in the lead but not in the main body. Sarastro1 (talk) 18:32, 2 June 2017 (UTC)
- "The way the player completes the quests depends on how much investigating they do": Also, I'm not too sure what this means. Sarastro1 (talk) 18:34, 2 June 2017 (UTC)
- @Sarastro1: Thanks. I've fixed them both. Anarchyte (work | talk) 02:42, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
Comments by Mike Christie
[edit]Addressed comments from Mike Christie
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I've copyedited; please revert anything I messed up. I got rid of the spelling error in the quote from Veer; per Wikipedia:Quotations#Formatting it's OK to correct trivial spelling errors where they don't affect the meaning. A couple of remaining points:
-- Otherwise this looks in pretty good shape; I expect to support once these points are fixed. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 21:08, 4 June 2017 (UTC)
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Support. The points I raised have been addressed. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 08:55, 8 June 2017 (UTC)
- Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Sarastro1 (talk) 20:49, 8 June 2017 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.