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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 21 October 2021 [1].

Dracophyllum fiordense

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Nominator(s): Dracophyllum

This article is about an obscure tree from New Zealand's South Island. It was first described in 1928 by the New Zealand botanist Walter Oliver. Genetic analysis more recently has revealed, though quite obviously morphologically speaking, that is is related to Dracophyllum traversii and Dracophyllum menziesii. Good work by botanists recently, a monograph from earlier this year for example, has made sourcing these Dracophyllum articles quite easy. The most important articles are paywalled however, so I can email them to you if you would like. I have chosen to nominate this article before my other GAs because it has no major issues or missing information – the only potential issue being the difficulty in avoiding too close paraphrasing in the description section... Thanks in advance for your comments. Dracophyllum 23:32, 21 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Cas Liber - Support

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Looking now...Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:21, 22 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It has tiny pink flowers.... - a size is more informative than "tiny"...ditto the fruit in the next sentence
Is mentioning they are 2 by 2 mm worth it for the lede? Dracophyllum > FAC 04:29, 24 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
2 mm diameter round(ish) fruit"? (not a dealbreaker anyway) Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 05:39, 24 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I've added this Dracophyllum 08:02, 19 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It is rarely branched but when it is, they grow upright and have greyish-brown bark on older sections, whilst newer growth is a yellow-brown. = this sentence switches subject between first and second clauses..aand then changes topic for third. Needs splitting otherwise (weirdly sounds line the colours only occur on branched specimens. How about something like, "It has a single or (uncommonly) two upright trunks. Then colours in separate sentence.
Agreed, @Casliber: how does this sound:

"Though the trunk is usually unbranched, upright-growing branches may sometimes form – particularly on plants in Westland. The bark on older sections is a greyish-brown colour, while newer growth is a yellow-brown."

Dracophyllum > FAC 05:02, 24 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds good Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 05:38, 24 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Why do you have Approximate distribution AND range in taxobox, why not just "Approximate distribution/range"?
I've opted for just "range" Dracophyllum > FAC 03:50, 24 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
link Fiordland, subgenus, endemic
Done Dracophyllum > FAC 04:19, 24 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
some of the imperial range conversions stay the same number, which looks weird.
Which ones in particular? Also, should I be using fractions? Dracophyllum > FAC 05:29, 24 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Looks good from comprehensiveness and prose POV otherwise ergo Support Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:33, 22 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Femke

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Article is looking good. I'm leaning support pending source review and comments below

  • Lede says 1.5-5m, but I think the body says are only 50 cm in alpine regions
I basically just followed what the monograph (Venter 2021) said in the description, I'm assuming that the 50 cm example is an extreme / outlier... Dracophyllum > FAC 02:30, 28 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Its range occurs in -> Its range covers?
done Dracophyllum > FAC 04:21, 28 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Maybe wiktionary link tuft in lede
I chose tuft because I thought it would be easy for most people to understand – is this not the case? Dracophyllum > FAC 21:56, 26 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
As a non-native speaker, I may not be representative, but I've never heard of the word. FemkeMilene (talk) 08:12, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • sheathed in 60–87 by 30–43 mm (2.4–3.4 by 1.2–1.7 in) leathery, grooved sheaths -> are situated in, or are covered by?
Having read some definitions of a leaf sheath: "the lower part of a leaf when surrounding the stem" and "a structure, typically at the base that fully or partially clasps the stem above the node, where the latter is attached," I'm not really sure if it's right to say the the leaf is "sheathed" by the sheaths, because in this case the leaf sheath is just the bottom of the leaf which wraps around the stem. I could clarify that somehow I think... Dracophyllum > FAC 04:38, 28 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I've reworded it to, "and are attached to the stem by ...." Dracophyllum > FAC 07:46, 28 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Flowering occurs from January to March, producing an inflorescence (flower spike) that is an axillary panicle, which is one that is many-branched and arises far below the leaves, between the stem the leaf. -> split sentence in two
Changed to: "Flowering occurs from January to March, producing an inflorescence (flower spike) that is an axillary panicle. This is one that is many-branched and arises far below the leaves, between the branch the ,leaf." Dracophyllum > FAC 09:02, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I think the construction with the word one is awkward. Try... ... axillary pinacle: the inflorescense is many-branched and arises...
done Dracophyllum > FAC 19:41, 28 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Alts seem to be missing for pictures.
done Dracophyllum > FAC 09:02, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • The third pararaph of the description section is very jargonny. I see you have explained some words, but still difficult to understand. Maybe reread and tweak further. I know at some point prose quality declines with too much explaining. Don't have specific recommendations.
I've explained a little more. A diagram would help but this close ups of flowers are hard to come by and all the botanical drawings are copyrighted... Dracophyllum 08:32, 19 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"caducous" keeps hanging me up there... Eewilson (talk) 08:45, 19 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
possibly change "obtuse apices (tips)" to just "obtuse tips" and remove "apices" along with removing the wikilink for it; it's not used anywhere else in the article, so one less thing for the reader to have to learn Eewilson (talk) 08:48, 19 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Yes it is, as apex. Sorry about that. ignore. -Eewilson
caducous is gone Dracophyllum 09:02, 19 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • The corolla also has reflexed and oblong-shaped lobes, that are alone a similar size to the corolla tube at 1.5–2.0 by 1.3–1.5 mm (0.06–0.08 by 0.05–0.06 in) that are alone?
removed Dracophyllum > FAC 04:40, 28 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Though he noted that because the 2010 study was based on plastid sequence data and did not attain some species with strong enough evidence, the subgenera are instead based on morphological characteristics -> Can "Though he noted that" may be omitted for an easier sentence structure
I wanted to imply that it wasn't my own original research, but if it doesn't sound like it was my inference without the noted bit, then it can go. Dracophyllum > FAC 09:10, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I think it's clear from context, but for clarity you can make the last bit of the sentence active case (he instead based the subgenera on ..). FemkeMilene (talk) 11:50, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Done Dracophyllum > FAC 04:02, 28 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Done Dracophyllum > FAC 03:52, 28 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Nominator note

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I'll be gone for the next few days for a short wikibreak, feel free to leave comments, though I wont be able to respond to them right away. Thanks, Dracophyllum > FAC 20:33, 30 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Eewilson

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In no particular order:

  • Alts: I think the alts need some adjustment. See MOS:ALT. For example, the speciesbox image alt currently reads Dracophyllum fiordense in Fiordland on the Milford Track, on the flanks of Mount Balloon. The alt could instead read something like this: "Mountainside covered with green plants with D. fiordense in the center" and add a caption similar to one of these: "D. fiordense, Milford Track, Fiordland National Park" OR "Milford Track, Fiordland National Park" OR "D. fiordense in Fiordland National Park". As a bonus, you could edit the long description of the photo on Commons to include the entire description you have currently used as the alt.
I'm not sure what the <nowiki> will do in the alt for the photo in the Etymology section, but I would remove it, remove the Wiki markup from it (MOS:ALT says no code or markup in the alt), and change it to be similar to the one I described previously. You could also expand the caption a bit to include the location, if you wish.
I've reworked the alts a little, though don't wish to get hold up on them. Dracophyllum 09:26, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Check. Looks good. Eewilson (talk) 23:39, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sections: I think the Description section could have subsections for Leaves, Flowers, and Fruit to break up the long text. I also think Distribution and habitat ought to have Distribution and Habitat as subsections. You may need to do a bit of rearranging there.
I'll work on reworking the Distribution and Habitat section... Dracophyllum 06:25, 8 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I've added some subsections – I feel like having them in the description section inflates it too much. Dracophyllum 03:26, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Check. Eewilson (talk) 23:39, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Punctuation: The sentence He hypothesised that this change in range was due either to: misidentification as D. traversii; simply not having being found earlier; or more recent movement of the species further north... should not have the colon. The subcolons are okay, but could also be replaced with commas (and perhaps should) since there are no commas embedded within each of the items.
ehh, the rules for this sort of thing are quite open – i'll change it if it impedes understanding. Dracophyllum 09:34, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, whatever. :) Check. Eewilson (talk) 23:39, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redundant text: Oliver claimed it had been known by others for some years before he collected it in March 1927 on Wilmot saddle and Mount Barber.[5] The type specimen was collected on Wilmot saddle on the Wilmot pass.... First part of second sentence duplicates last part of first sentence.
I don't know why I thought this was a problem, but on second read, it's fine, so forget about this. Eewilson (talk) 04:02, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Subsection order: I'd put Phylogeny before Etymology, but not required I guess.
I like it in that order :) Dracophyllum 09:39, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Check. Seeing it again, I kinda do, too. I may change a couple of the ones I've been working on. Eewilson (talk) 23:39, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Conservation section: In the Lead you have Its conservation status was assessed in 2017 as "Declining." This is not in the body, nor is there a Conservation section. I think it should be added to the body with detail as to why it's declining within a section for Conservation that comes after Distribution and habitat.
It's in the habitat section at the bottom, no information is given as to why it is declinig sry. Dracophyllum 09:29, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Check. If more information ever comes up, it may be worth a Conservation section. Eewilson (talk) 23:39, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Venter: There's reference to "Venter" by surname in the Description before the text about who he is and his full name, which doesn't occur until Phylogeny.
not sure when I removed it or if it was ever there but rn this issue is resolved. Dracophyllum 03:22, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Check. Eewilson (talk) 03:49, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Units of measurement: First instance of any measurement should be spelled out (metres, feet) (see MOS:UNITNAMES), so turn abbr=off there. Under description, mm (millimetres) and in (inches), cm (centimetres), etc.
done, can't seem to make in into inches Dracophyllum 09:37, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Check. I'll try, but if it doesn't work, no big deal on inches, I guess. Eewilson (talk) 23:39, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hypen needed: pyramid shaped should be "pyramid-shaped" as an adjective
done Dracophyllum 23:31, 7 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Check. Eewilson (talk) 03:49, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Date format mismatch: Reference beginning with Norton, David A. (2018-10-02). needs to be changed to have dd mmmm yyyy format in the date = parameter.
Check. Eewilson (talk) 04:02, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hatnotes: I would add the following templates at the top below Short description since the article is already following these conventions: Use dmy dates, Use shortened footnotes, and Use New Zealand English
Added Dracophyllum > FAC 08:50, 5 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Check. You should add those to all the Dracophyllum articles you are creating! :) Eewilson (talk) 03:49, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • access-date: All sources with url = set should have access-date = set (per something I read recently).
k, done Dracophyllum 09:43, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Check. Eewilson (talk) 23:39, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • References order: References should be in alphabetical order by author surnames followed by publication date.
done Dracophyllum 09:51, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Check. Eewilson (talk) 23:39, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Footnotes section: Personally, I like "Citations" for the name of that section rather than Footnotes because Footnotes is too close to Notes and because they actually are citations.
Check. Eewilson (talk) 04:02, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ecology: There is no Ecology section. I think there is some ecology information in the article that could be rearranged/moved to one, and perhaps you can find more. See WP:PLANTS § Ecology.
@Eewilson: I've pulled together some scraps – it's a bit rough though. Dracophyllum 03:32, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I'll study it and get back with you. Eewilson (talk) 03:57, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The bird picture is a nice touch! I'll read that more in depth soon. The second paragraph in the Description subsection that begins "Venter recorded in his 2009 thesis and 2021 revision of the genus that plants from the southern population..." can be a part of ecology because it is about the species' interaction with the environment. Very good information for Ecology. Eewilson (talk) 04:21, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, distribution/habitat and ecology sections often have a rough overlap (plant associations for example)... Dracophyllum 04:35, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Type specimen: Can you elaborate as to why there is a lectotype rather than a holotype? Is an image to the lectotype online? If so, perhaps a link to it in either a note or a citation, depending on how you use it if you find it.

—Eewilson (talk) 23:15, 30 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I have included a picture of it as well as explained why it is a lectotype and not a holotype, I have reservations about linking stuff (to external websites) in the article, so I guess I could put it in an external links section... Dracophyllum 03:57, 8 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
What I have done is (perhaps) say where it is stored either in the prose or in an efn, then have a citation that has the external link. See Symphyotrichum lateriflorum for any of the specimen images, and Symphyotrichum lateriflorum#Variety flagellare and Symphyotrichum lateriflorum#Variety tenuipes (or search for the word "stored") for sample prose and citations to go with them. —Eewilson (talk) 04:21, 8 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I'll study what you've changed on this and get back with you. Eewilson (talk) 03:57, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Check. Explanation is good. Anything else will come up in source review. Eewilson (talk) 04:26, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Punctuation: Its range covers two main groups, one in Fiordland National Park, and one in the Mount Cook and Westland National Parks. That first comma after two main groups should be a colon or an em-dash.
done Dracophyllum 04:37, 8 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Check. Eewilson (talk) 03:57, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Date next to author citation: Botanical author citations do not have dates next to them like zoological ones do, so that should be removed from the Speciesbox.
Deleted Dracophyllum > FAC 07:33, 5 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Check. Eewilson (talk) 03:49, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Speciesbox source citations: There should be a source citation for the Binomial and one for the Range map. You can put each of them on the end of the authority = and range_map_caption = parameters, respectively.
done Dracophyllum 06:27, 8 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Check. Eewilson (talk) 03:49, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Grammar: simply not having being found earlier is really not correct — maybe "simply not being found earlier".
done, Dracophyllum 09:52, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Check. Eewilson (talk) 23:39, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • References subsections: I think you could replace === Websites ===, === Books ===, and === Journals === with ;Websites, ;Books, and ;Journals, respectively. No need in having them in the TOC.
done Dracophyllum 03:19, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Check. Eewilson (talk) 03:49, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Probably more later. —Eewilson (talk) 23:46, 30 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Conversions: With respect to the conversions, so many of the measurements are so small that conversion to Imperial is meaningless. I would opt for eliminating all of your conversions and just using metric, which I'm pretty sure is acceptable given the location of the species and that this is a scientific article. You will need to place either a nbsp between each number and unit or wrap each in nowrap. I think this will also make the Description secion read much cleaner. Another option would be to use fractions, but you would end up with 0.55–0.60 millimetres (1⁄50–1⁄40 inch) or 0.55–0.60 millimetres (1⁄50–3⁄125 inch) or 0.55–0.60 millimetres (1⁄50–7⁄300 inch) for the smallest one, depending on the precision you choose. I don't think that's useful in this case.

—Eewilson (talk) 08:34, 1 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I've removed the tiny ones. Dracophyllum 08:50, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I have access to all the paywalled articles and could send them to you if you would like. Dracophyllum 03:19, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Dracophyllum: That would be great. Do you have my email address from the GA you did for me? If not, message me through here and we can go from there. Eewilson (talk) 03:49, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Okay! It's looking good. I have the source review to do. Another read-through. I'm also working on a GA review and am in the source review for it, so I'll likely bounce back and forth between it and this. Good work! Eewilson (talk) 23:39, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

More prose review, reference formatting, plant article contents

After a full read, I have made corrections in the article and have the following for you to address:

  • Does there exist information on the phytochemistry and chromosome analysis of the species or genus? Description needs this if it does.
  • Root structure is missing from the description.
None is given anywhere Dracophyllum 03:09, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Check. Eewilson (talk) 05:24, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is there a fragrance?
None given Dracophyllum 03:09, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Check. Eewilson (talk) 05:24, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Presume it is evergreen? Winter or drought deciduous? If so, add that, or add whatever applies.
Can't find anything about that Dracophyllum 03:33, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Check. Eewilson (talk) 05:24, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • What is "straight-triangular" and is there a clearer way to describe that?
  • "It has an almost globe-shaped ovary, which is 0.9–1.0 by 1.3–1.5 mm (0.035–0.039 by 0.051–0.059 in), hairless, and has a round apex." What is "It"?
the flower/s Dracophyllum 03:09, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Check. I changed it. Eewilson (talk) 05:24, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Because the 2010 study was based on plastid sequence data and did not attain some species with strong enough evidence, he instead based the subgenera on morphological characteristics." Did not "contain"? Did not "include"?
It's "attain" Dracophyllum 03:09, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Check. Eewilson (talk) 05:24, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • mountain flax (Phormium cookianum), Which species is it? Also, Wikilink the species name rather than the common name per plants project instructions. I did that on all but this one because of the confusion.
It's a synonym, the one in the brackets is the more common one in nz Dracophyllum 03:09, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Check. I dealt with it. Eewilson (talk) 05:24, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Don't ital or bold punctuation such as parentheses, periods, commas, etc., unless it's a direct quote (I fixed). Put them outside of the formatting.
k Dracophyllum 03:33, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Be consistent with space endash space or emdash and no space when used in a sentence. I changed to space endash space because it was what was in the earliest part of the article.
k Dracophyllum 03:33, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ital the genus name in the journal article titles; sentence case in journal article names; title case in book names; I actually don't know about thesis names, but you have one of each so you may want to find out and see if they should be consistently one or the other
  • All taxa above genus are not italicized. I fixed, but keep this in mind.

Many of the things I have listed during my review here should have been caught in or prior to GA review.

—Eewilson (talk) 02:33, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Source review

[edit]
  • Description
    • Paragraph 1: Sort out your two citations at the end of the paragraph within the prose so that the reader will know what came from which. If the same information came from both, use the secondary source (https://www.nzpcn.org.nz/flora/species/dracophyllum-fiordense/).
    • Paragraph 2: Has no source citations.
    • Paragraph 3: Same issue as Paragraph 1.
  • Distribution
    • Paragraph 2: The sentence "The northern population, in Westland, typically has many branched stems and much smaller fruit and shorter leaves." Should that be with one of Venter's sources or with Norton's?
  • Ecology
    • Paragraph 1: There is a reference to Gray's 1977 thesis in the prose with no citation, then information from and a citation to Lentini et al. 2018, p. 158, then more information from Gray 1977 with a citation to it. Sort out the mismatch.

If you will clear those items up, then I'll be able to continue. Thanks! Eewilson (talk) 18:12, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

these issues have been fixed, thanks Dracophyllum 23:14, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oops @Dracophyllum: I forgot these two things that you didn't answer. I still Support, but can you let me know if you've looked into them?

  • Does there exist information on the phytochemistry and chromosome analysis of the species or genus? Description needs this if it does.
Usually these are listed on NZPCN, a search on google scholar turns up nothing. So no, unfortunarely. Dracophyllum 06:44, 12 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
That's a bummer. Okay. Eewilson (talk) 06:46, 12 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • What is "straight-triangular" and is there a clearer way to describe that?
source says the leaves are "linear–triangular" so basically its a rectangle than becomes shorter, kinda like a triangle. Dracophyllum 06:44, 12 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I still don't get it, but don't worry about it. :) Eewilson (talk) 06:46, 12 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

—Eewilson (talk) 06:15, 12 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I've changed it to "and are shaped like a head of a lance; narrowing to their ends in a triangular form." which I hope makes a little more sense? It's hard to describe... Dracophyllum 08:26, 19 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It actually does! Thanks. Eewilson (talk) 08:39, 19 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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