Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Carlos Castillo Armas/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Laser brain via FACBot (talk) 11 November 2019 [1].

Carlos Castillo Armas

Nominator(s): Vanamonde (Talk) 18:31, 20 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about a controversial character in Guatemalan history. Castillo Armas was a military officer exiled during the Guatemalan Revolution, who then led a rebel force armed and funded by the CIA to topple the Guatemalan government in 1954. He was President for three years before being assassinated. I've dug pretty deep into the sources on this subject over the years; this is the fourth article from this period on Guatemalan history that I have brought to FAC. This page benefited from a detailed GA review from Midnightblueowl, and a A-class review from the military history Wikiproject. All comments are welcome. Vanamonde (Talk) 18:31, 20 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

CommentsSupport by PM

I went through this article in detail at Milhist ACR, but I have a few comments from a another read through:

in the lead, suggest "US support tofor the rebels"
Done.
do we know the names of his parents?
I'm afraid not...I've looked quite a bit. I can't even find it in dodgy sources. Perhaps hard-copy records somewhere in Guatemala would have this information; perhaps not even there.
link President of Guatemala at first mention
Done.
"The agrarian reform law angered" this needs introduction. When was it introduced and by whom? Also, should this be in past tense? ie "The agrarian reform law introduced by Foo in 194X had angered the UFC" and "it had been granted further favours..." etc Then the agrarian reform is introduced. I think this para needs rewriting.
I looked at that whole section, and I was confused by it myself. I've reordered a lot of it, and added some context about Arbenz and agrarian reform. Take a look.
suggest "to see the Arévalo government as communist"
I think this is now less important, see reorganization
Árbenz isn't properly introduced as becoming president. Suggest adding this in at the appropriate point.
Per above.
"communist leaders in Guatemala" but were they really communist, or is that a misnomer
Yeah, it's a misnomer. That was the excuse, not the reason. Tweaked.
"the former lieutenant of Arana"
Done.
I think "Castillo Armas had eventually risen to the rank of lieutenant colonel" should be in the Early life and career section
Probably. Done.
"Armas had ~~been~~remained on the CIA payroll" as we have already been told he was paid a retainer
Done
"the rebels ~~attempted to~~ attacked the capital"
done.
who was Monzón Aguirre? is this the same guy as Colonel H. Elfego Monzón?
Same guy. The variation in how the sources deal with Spanish naming led to the confusion...I've now gone with just "Monzon" after first use.
"opposed to the reforms of the Guatemalan Revolution" what were these? The land reforms?
Not just the land reforms...pretty much everything; literacy, broad voting rights, land reform, communist legalization, unionization, minimum wage...etc. These were essentially the social and economic elite, whose power and influence Arevalo threatened. I think it's too much detail here; Guatemalan Revolution covers some of it.
link Guatemalan Party of Labour, which appears to be the Communist Party of Guatemala
That's the one. Linked.

That's all for now. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:00, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Peacemaker67: Thanks as always. I think I've got everything. Vanamonde (Talk) 04:29, 23 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Big improvement in the flow and background/context. Just one final thing, there are two citations to Gleijeses 1991, this should be 1992. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:10, 23 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Peacemaker67: Thanks, fixed. Vanamonde (Talk) 15:46, 23 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Great, supporting. Nice work on this. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 22:30, 23 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sources review

No spotchecks carried out
Links to sources checked & all working, per the checker tool
Formats

Ref 23 requires pp.
It isn't necessary to add retrieval dates for book sources, e.g. Lenz, McAllister, McCleary. Nor for the Life magazine either, since it links to the original. (I found that 1954 magazine absolutely fascinating, by the way, especially the adverts)

Quality/reliability: no issues - sources appear to meet all the necessary FA criteria.

Brianboulton (talk) 16:42, 27 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Ref 23 fixed; unnecessary accessdates removed. I've been using the google books reference generator, which has been sticking that in, and I didn't catch it...Vanamonde (Talk) 00:51, 29 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

CommentsSupport by CPA-5

over 70,000 people and added 10% of the population to a list of suspected communists Replace the symbol of per cent with "percent".
Done
I see a lot of howevers maybe trim seven of them.
Trimmed a few; I think the rest are necessary to the flow.
only candidate; he won the election with 99% of the vote --> "only candidate; he won the election with 99 percent of the vote"
Done
ulminating in the Guatemalan Civil War of 1960 to 1996 --> "ulminating in the Guatemalan Civil War from 1960 to 1996."
I think the current version flows better, and it isn't incorrect
with the aim of blowing up railways and cutting telegraph lines --> "to blow up railways and cut telegraph lines"
I disagree with this; I think the current version conveys the meaning more clearly
Castillo Armas gave corn import licences to some British licences.
Done
and soon afterwards declared a "state of siege" and seized British afterwards.
Done

That's anything from me. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 17:28, 1 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@CPA-5: Thanks for your comments; I've responded to each. Vanamonde (Talk) 17:42, 1 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It looks beter. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 18:06, 1 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinator notes

I've had this on the Urgents list for a while but with no activity in over a month, it doesn't look to have the legs right now. I'll give it a couple more days, but then it will need to be archived. --Laser brain (talk) 00:31, 5 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

File:Carlos_Castillo_Armas_(Anti-Communist_Speech).png: "Unknown U.S. official " is not exactly what the source says - what leads you to believe the current tagging is correct?
Sigh. Valid point. I had forgotten that I had had a lengthy email exchange with the folks running footage farm, in which they insisted that the video was in the public domain because it was from the National Archives, but refused to provide me any way of verifying that (including refusing to provide call numbers, etc, from the archive). I have removed the image. I see no other available image that doesn't have these problems.
File:Un-guatemala.png: possible to provide a specific link or source citation? Nikkimaria (talk) 03:16, 5 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Took me a while, but yes, done. Back for the other one tomorrow. Vanamonde (Talk) 07:18, 5 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from AustralianRupert

Support: G'day, I note the request above for more reviewers. I will take a look at this presently. Should hopefully post some comments tonight. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 07:57, 8 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I have the following suggestions: AustralianRupert (talk) 09:04, 8 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@AustralianRupert: Responded to all but the translations, which I'm working on. Thanks for the review. Vanamonde (Talk) 01:21, 10 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

suggest linking junta, scorched earth, lieutenant colonel, colonel
Done.
Sandoval persuaded Francisco Javier Arana: suggest adding Arana's rank here as it appears to be mentioned in the lead
There's uncertainty over what Arana's rank was at this time; he eventually became a colonel, but it's unclear if he was when he was persuaded.
No worries, that's fair enough. AustralianRupert (talk) 05:03, 10 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Castillo Armas had encountered the US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA): move the full name of the Central Intelligence Agency to the paragraph above this where it is first mentioned
Done
described him as "a quiet, soft-spoken officer who does not seem to be given to exaggeration" --> "described him as "a quiet, soft-spoken officer who...[did]...not seem to be given to exaggeration"
Done
Castillo Armas had led an assault against Matamoros along with a handful of supporters.[10] The attack had failed --> "Castillo Armas led an assault against Matamoros along with a handful of supporters.[10] The attack failed..."
That's better, yes. Done.
retained by the CIA by paying him $3,000 a week --> "retained by the CIA who paid him $3,000 a week"
Done.
leader from the perspective of the CIA --> "leader from the CIA's perspective"?
Done.
Bogged down by supplies and a lack of transportation --> "Bogged down by limited supplies and a lack of transportation"?
I was about to make this change, but decided to check the source, and it's a good thing I did; source is saying they were encumbered by supplies, while being on foot. Rephrased for clarity.
That change looks good to me. AustralianRupert (talk) 05:03, 10 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
junta with Colonel H. Elfego Monzón: adjust the link here so that it only covers the name, not the rank
Fixed.
force of 122 men targeting Zacapa were --> " force of 122 men targeting Zacapa was"?
Good spot. Fixed.
not sure if this has been discussed already -- sorry if it has -- but is there an image of the individual himself that might be used for the article?
Ugh. Yes, it's been discussed. There's a bunch of images, with no explicit documentation. Often they are from websites run by alumni of the army academy, and such things. I have tried very hard over the years to find images with explicit license information (see below exchange with Nikkimaria); this has been going on for years, since I started writing about this general area in 2014. If this is something that is a deal-breaker then so be it, but I don't think it's a problem that's fixable without someone digging around in the national archives either in Guatemala City or Washington DC.
Not a deal breaker for me -- sounds frustrating. Hopefully, one day, a suitable image will eventually become available, but it sounds to me like you've done your best in this regard, which is good enough from my perspective given we are all just volunteers. AustralianRupert (talk) 05:03, 10 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Castillo Armas, in contrast, was described...: perhaps say who described him this way
It's Cullather. Added.
In August, the government: might be best to add the year here to clarify
Still 1954. Added.
Footnote b probably needs a full stop
Fixed.
Though crimes against civilians were committed by both sides, 93 percent of such atrocities were committed by the US-backed military.[106][108][109][110] -- is it necessary for four citations here? I understand it is controversial, but potentially this isn't really necesary
It shouldn't be, but it was the subject of a disagreement on a related page. I'd prefer to keep them in unless you feel really strongly.
Not a major concern from my perspective; if it is in response to earlier concerns then it is probably best to keep them all. AustralianRupert (talk) 05:03, 10 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
in the Bibliography, "p. 237" isn't necessary for the McLeary entry
Done.
in the Bibliography, suggest adding the translation for the title of the Castaneda source, and others that are not in English. The |trans-title= parameter in the cite book template supports this presentation
I'll work on it. I don't trust google scholar, nor my mediocre Spanish, in this respect.
No worries, you might be able to find someone with the appropriate language skills here: Wikipedia:Translators available. Thanks for your efforts. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 05:03, 10 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. --Laser brain (talk) 12:51, 11 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.