Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/1986 World Snooker Championship/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ealdgyth via FACBot (talk) 6 September 2020 [1].

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1986 World Snooker Championship

Nominator(s): BennyOnTheLoose and Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:54, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

This article is about the 1986 edition of the World Snooker Championship. After Steve Davis lost the previous year's final on the final ball, the world number one reached the final in 1986 where hee played 500-1 outsider Joe Johnson. Johnson played some of the best snooker of his career to take Davis apart 18–12 and win his sole world championship. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:54, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

Comments Support by WA8MTWAYC

Great work, Benny and Lee. As someone who knows virtually nothing about this sport, I found it rather interesting and I've learned a lot of new things, such as a small bit of snooker history given in the "Overview" section. I've got a few comments, mostly to do with the links. WA8MTWAYC (talk) 11:37, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

• Thanks for your review, WA8MTWAYC. I've responded below, let us know if there is anything else. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 13:22, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
  • +1 thanks from me. Let me know if there is more to look at. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:48, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
    • Cheers, I'm happy to support now. Great job both of you. WA8MTWAYC (talk) 14:00, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
• Can be just me but "of the World Snooker Championship first held in 1927" reads a bit odd. Maybe better to include a punctuation mark between "Championship" and "first held" or to rewrite it to something like "Championship, which was first held in 1927".
  • Amended. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 13:22, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
• "The 1986 championship" > The 1986 Championship.
  • Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 13:22, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
• Link "world snooker rankings" in "the top players in the world snooker rankings and a pre-tournament".
  • Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 13:22, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
• Link "century break" in "Joe O'Boye recorded the first century break".
  • Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 13:22, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
• Better to link "black balls" in "despite the brown to black balls" instead of in "Higgins missed a black ball from".
  • Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 13:22, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
• Maybe also link "brown [ball]" in that part?
  • Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 13:22, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
• Link seed (sports) in "was one of three top-32 seeds" instead of in "Third seed Thorburn".
  • Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 13:22, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
• And "deciding frame" in "the final black in the deciding frame of their contest" rather than in "The match went to a deciding frame".
  • Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 13:22, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
• Link "The Times" in "The Times report of the match said that Thorne".
  • Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 13:22, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
• "took place between 1–3 May" > took place between 1 and 3 May.
  • Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 13:22, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
• Wogan > Wogan.
  • Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 13:22, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
• "than became dominant in the 1990s" > that became dominant in the 1990s.
  • Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 13:22, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
• Preston Guild Hall is overlinked in "Four rounds of qualification were played at the Preston Guild Hall in Preston".
  • Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 13:22, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

Image review

• Captions that are complete sentences should end in periods. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:27, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

Comments Support from The Squirrel Conspiracy

This is a QPQ review for Lee's review of Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of major Super Smash Bros. for Wii U tournaments/archive1. It's also my first review at FAC that wasn't just dropping in comment on images that I thought violated the NFCC.

Your work is of a high standard, and BennyOnTheLoose has already given the prose a deep scrub, so I'm left with very little to comment on.

• I am unconvinced that File:1986 World Snooker Championship programme.jpg meets WP:NFCC 8. While the community is generally willing to give a free pass to the infobox image, Featured Articles should be held to a higher standard. Can you please explain why the program booklet "significantly increase[s] readers' understanding of the article topic, and its omission would be detrimental to that understanding"?
  • I disagree. I did suggest a NFCC 8, which is similar to that of video game covers. I would have used a poster for the event, which has consensus for meeting this, but this was the closest I could find. I should note the image review picked up no such issue. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 08:00, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
• "Joe Davis won the first World Championship in 1927, the final match being held in Camkin's Hall, Birmingham, England." - I don't see what this adds to the article. Consider removing it.
  • This is an overview of the world championships, to state how old the tournament is, and that it hasn't always been held in Sheffield.| Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 08:00, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
• "The 32 competitors in the main tournament were selected using a combination of the top players in the world snooker rankings and a pre-tournament qualification stage." - Can you specify how many come from each of those two methods?
  • Sure, I've added. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 08:00, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
• The use of div col in the "Prize fund" section creates exceptionally weird formatting on wide screens. Consider removing div col, or forcing some sort of line break between Main Event and Qualifying.
  • I agree - we don't usually include the qualification money, so I've rearranged. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 08:00, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
• Consider standardizing the widths of the five tables in the Qualifying section. Right now, on wider screens, the ones on the right don't align.

I have made these standard (or the best I could!) - let me know your thoughts. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 08:25, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Please ping me when you need me to circle back. The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 02:50, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi The Squirrel Conspiracy - I've addressed the above. Thanks for taking a look! Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 08:25, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

@Lee Vilenski: Regarding the image: Video game and album covers are used to identify the game across several mediums (storefronts, reviews, etc.). Is the event brochure program similarly used? A google search of "1986 World Snooker Championship" shows a lot of images of players and tables, and none of the program. That's not the case when you search a game or album, where the cover appears frequently. Therefore, I don't agree that the program cover counts as a primary means of identification, which is the rationale that other works use for having a non-free image in the infobox. Had we a freely licensed image of Joe Johnson, that would make for a good lead image, but as it stands, I feel it'd be better to leave that field blank. Everything else is fine at this point; the image remains my final concern. The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 17:34, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

In that case The Squirrel Conspiracy, I'm happy to remove the image. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:35, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

@Lee Vilenski: Ping me when you do and I'll change my comment to a support. The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 17:41, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

- I thought I already had The Squirrel Conspiracy, apologies. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:45, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Changed to support. The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 18:19, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Coord note

I've added this to the urgents list for hopefully a review from someone outside the topic area. Also to the source reviews list for one. --Ealdgyth (talk) 14:38, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi @Ian Rose, Laser brain, and Ealdgyth:, this one is just missing a source review from the looks of it. Would there be any objection to firing up the next nom? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 07:45, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

Nope, that's fine. --Ealdgyth (talk) 22:43, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

Comments by Epicgenius

Here are my comments.

• Looking at 2019 World Snooker Championship#Background, another FA of yours, I was wondering if you could standardize that text.
  • E.g. "professional tournament" (this article) vs "annual cue sport tournament" (2019 article).
  • Also, I wonder if you can link stuff like Birmingham.
• A full breakdown of the prize money is shown below - any better way to phrase this?
• against former world snooker championship promoter Mike Watterson - in this instance, is the "world snooker championship" supposed to be lowercase?
• His wife Barbara Thorburn, gave birth to their second child in the couple's native Canada during the match. - I think you can get rid of the comma, or add another after "his wife"
• A condensed version of the final was showcased on BBC Two on 22 April 2020 in place of the 2020 World Snooker Championship which was postponed because of the coronavirus pandemic. - should it be "which had been postponed"?

These are the prose comments I had. epicgenius (talk) 15:40, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

• • I've made the above changes epicgenius Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:22, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
    • Support. I don't see any other prose issues. epicgenius (talk) 17:34, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Harrias

• In light of the recent RFC on table captions (closed back in May) and how FACs have to follow MOS:ACCESS, table captions should be included in all tables. This quote by PresN might apply to this list: "In the case that the table is the first thing in a section where the section header is essentially the same as what the caption would be, and therefore looks duplicative visually, you can make the caption screen reader-only with the {{sronly}} template, e.g. "|+ {{sronly|Example table caption}}" instead of "
  • Added Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 07:04, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
• The tables also need row and column headers to meet the requirements of MOS:ACCESS, as set out in MOS:DTT.
  • Done the scopes. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 07:21, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
• In the Qualifying section, it would be better to use {{flagathlete}} rather than {{flagicon}} as per MOS:FLAG.

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 22:32, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

• What does "w.o.-scr." mean? The first part is linked to walkover, that's fine, but the "scr."?

• I've added an entry to Glossary of cue sports terms and linked it. Hopefully this is clearer. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 13:19, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

• Why in the references is The Times listed as Times, The and Sunday Times, The? And yet, The Daily Telegraph is listed as so.

• Now amended. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:47, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

• There is also a location listed for The Times, but not for The Daily Telegraph.

• Now amended. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:47, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

• Also note that the location should not be italicised: move it out of the work parameter, into the location parameter, which will format it properly.

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:47, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

• More details are needed for "Downer, Chris (2012). Crucible Almanac." Who publishes it?
  • Is this Snooker Scene, BennyOnTheLoose? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 07:23, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
    • It's sold by Snooker Scene - I'm not sure who the publisher is. I've been trying to get hold of a copy. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:31, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

That's it from me at the moment. (Not that I have not looked at the prose.) Harrias ^talk 07:10, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Source review

• I admit, I am not at all familiar with this subject. So if I say something stupid, please say so.

Spot check

• "official" does not appear in the Matchroom Sport and even if it did how does a "promotions company" qualify as a reliable source to verify such a claim

• Matchroom Sport owns a controlling share of World Snooker. (As mentioned here here). BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 14:03, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

• OK, but you are not claiming that the World Snooker Championship is the "official" snooker championship of the WPBSA, you are claiming that it is "official world championship of the game of snooker". This I think requires an independent source. What makes it "official"? Perhaps, the best solution is a reorganization. Start with the founding of the sport in the late 19th century. Then use this source p. 278 to describe how in 1969 the WPBSA created the world championship for the sport. Mentioning the World Professional Billiards and Snooker Association makes stating "official" unnecessary and superfluous. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 19:25, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

• After a deeper reading, it appears the WPBSA has whitewashed the history just a tad to give the championship a longer history. This championship in its current existence appears to have been founded in 1969 and should be delineated from the "World Snooker Championship" of the earlier era. At least, that should be noted in passing. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 19:37, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
  • Again books offer a solution, use p. 277 and p. 278 linked above. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 19:58, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
  • Indeed, you'd be close to the money. The event is strictly speaking a different event (as in it is now run by the WPBSA rather than that before 1969), but they do refer to winners of the previous events as being in the same lineage (albeit with the "modern era" referring to these events). The article currently comments on the full lineage in 1927 (which even the WPBSA refer to as the first event). I do think this could be reworded slightly - give me a minute. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:34, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
    • I've reworded slightly to what is closer to the truth. Might need a slight rejig to make it transparent. I'll get Benny to take a look. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:46, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
      • We should find a source for "Billiards Association and Control Council". --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 21:01, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
• this or this would be much better sources than Ref #2

• Amended, to use the Williams book. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 14:03, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

• considering the above two sources and other published books, is Ref #3 really the best source for historical info?

• Amended. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 14:03, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

• "Since 1977" – wouldn't this be a much better source

• Replaced both the former refs with this suggested one. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 14:03, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

• "globalsnookercentre.co.uk" – why is this self-published source considered reliable

• Pending.

• • Looks like Benny has already removed this. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:34, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
• "Robby Foldvari, who had won the World Billiards Championship in March 1986" – I could not verify any of this in the sources cited. Foldvari is not mentioned in either source

• The references for Davis and Foldvari's records were transposed. I've also added a source after each match to confirm the results, which aren't in the sources about their world titles. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 14:03, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

• "Like John Spencer in 1978, Terry Griffiths in 1980, Cliff Thorburn in 1981, and Steve Davis in 1982" – if you going to mention the years, you should cite each source[2][3][4][5]

• Would this be OK rather than using several sources? BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 14:21, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

I am afraid not. While it confirms that they won the previous year, it does not note that they competed in the year after becoming champion. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 19:25, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

I'm sure we can add the individual references here. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:34, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

Citations

• "worldsnooker.com" – that is no longer the URL of the website; in any case the website has a name: "WST" or "World Snooker"
  • Ah yes, the world snooker rebranding. That brings its own issues (The World Snooker Tour organising events on the World Snooker Tour!)
• "globalsnookercentre.co.uk" – the name of the website is Global Snooker Centre
  • Irrelevant now. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:34, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
• "Danny Fowler | World Championship Results" → "Danny Fowler Player Profile"

Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 14:03, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

• "13". Snooker's World Champions: Masters of the Baize. — Do you mean "13. Joe Johnson: Ordinary Joe", the name of the chapter

• Yes. As the Google books link didn't direct to the right place, I've amended the ref based on my physical copy of the book. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 14:03, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

• "Kastner, Hugo" – add |page=2, move May 2011 to |date=, delete "update"

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 15:10, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

• For all The Times references, can we add page numbers

• (NewsBank doesn't include page numbers so I checked on The Times Digital Archive. Done with two exceptions. The Sunday Times is not on The Times Digital Archive, and the source from 13 May is on NewsBank (I checked again) but I couldn't find it in the digitised Times archive so I've left these as is (i.e. NewsBank links, no page number.) Presumably because of different editions, 3 and 6 May have different headlines in the different sources, so I've used the details from The Times archive instead and removed the NewsBank link. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 15:13, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

Thank you. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 19:25, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

I will have to come back for another look. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 06:08, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

• "pp. –2" appears to be an error.--- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 19:25, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
  • Good catch Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:51, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
• move Nauright and Zipp to |editor-last= and |editor-last2= and add Luke J. Harris as author. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 19:58, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
  • Done. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:51, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
• "Everton, Clive (2012)" – add some form of "Malmesbury, Wiltshire" to |location=--- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 20:04, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
  • Added - I didn't link the book mind. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:59, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
• "John Spencer | World Championship Results" → "John Spencer Player Profile"
• "Stephen Hendry | World Championship Results" → "Stephen Hendry Player Profile" --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 21:15, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

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Lee Vilenski and BennyOnTheLoose, my only remaining concern is finding a source for "Billiards Association and Control Council". --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 21:44, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

No worries. There's a few offline sources that I know of, just checking with Benny if he might have access to them. Shouldn't be too long. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:47, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for taking on the review and for your observations, Coffeeandcrumbs. I've added a source for the BA&CC, let us know whether that looks OK. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 22:02, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

Thank you. I have no further concerns. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 22:15, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

• Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through.

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.