Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/1937–38 Gillingham F.C. season/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 16 January 2023 [1].

1937–38 Gillingham F.C. season

Nominator(s): ChrisTheDude (talk) 10:30, 6 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

After a brief excursion into the world of music, I'm back in my comfort zone with my 19th nomination of a season from the history of Gillingham F.C. At the end of this particular season, the club lost its place in the Football League, which is timely as the way things are going at the moment the same thing is going to happen at the end of the current season...... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 10:30, 6 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Wehwalt

You might want to say in background when the club had last been required to re-apply to the League.
"A week later, Gillingham lost again, being defeated 5–1 at home by Queens Park Rangers, the first time they had conceded as many goals during the season.[13]" Is "as many goals" correct? Probably ENGVAR but I'd say "that many goals".
What were Ipswich Town's qualifications? Had it done particularly well in its league that season?

That's it.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:42, 6 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Wehwalt: - many thanks for your review. Points 1 and 3 have been addressed. And re point 2, yes this is valid- see for example the sentence below the heading "What record has Mbappe matched?" in this source..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 20:54, 6 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support--Wehwalt (talk) 21:34, 6 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

File:Laurie_Fishlock_postcard.jpg: source link is dead. For UK status per the tag the image description needs to specify the work undertaken to attempt to identify the author, and what is the status in the US? Nikkimaria (talk) 02:46, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Nikkimaria: - unfortunately I don't have those answers, so I removed the image -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:41, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from HAL

won only three times --> "won only thrice" is more concise, but really an aesthetic choice, feel free not to.
highest attendance recorded at the club's home ground Might be a stupid question, but is that the highest attendance ever? Or just that season?
Pre-season Should that be "preseason" or is that British English?
There might be a bit too many semicolons under "Third Division South Cup".
In the key for the Players table, there appear to be some duplicate links for positions.
Could you archive the urls if possible.
The locations seem to be given for only some of the works cited.

Solid work. ~ HAL333 22:36, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@HAL333: - thanks for your review. All done bar "pre-season" - as you note, that is a valid usage in British English (see eg this) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:37, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Happy to support. ~ HAL333 08:41, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Source review by Z1720 - pass

"Brown, Tony (2003)" What makes this a high-quality source? I couldn't find information that it was published by Soccerdata, and Amazon states that it was published by the author (so self-published?) Is there a link to a reputable website that might have more information about this? If it is self-published, what makes it a high-quality source?
What makes "Joyce, Michael (2004)." a high-quality source? Specifically, why is Joyce or soccerdata high-quaity?
"Soar, Phil; Tyler, Martin (1983)" The publisher (Collins Willow) has a redirect from CollinsWillow to HarperCollins. Should this be wikilinked in the ref and changed to CollinsWillow?
Suggest archiving sites using IABot.

Those are my thoughts. Please ping when responses are given. Z1720 (talk) 21:40, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Z1720: Soccerdata is run by Tony Brown but has published a host of football reference works by many authors, including Jack Rollin, one of the most highly-regarded English football journalists. Brown is also the official statistician of The Football League, the statistician for the English National Football Archive, quoted by sources such as the BBC, noted as a "revered statto" by When Saturday Comes magazine, and thanked for providing the statistical content and/or cited as a source in this book and this book, both from major publishers, and even this doctoral thesis (as is Joyce in the latter case). Hope this helps -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:53, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the above ChrisTheDude. I am still struggling to find an entry that says Soccerdata published the Tony Brown source, as Google is showing me that it is self-published. Is there a link you can post that will show this? Z1720 (talk) 16:30, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Z1720: - does this help? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 19:04, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I believe it does. This source review is a pass. Z1720 (talk) 21:51, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support by Lee Vilenski

I'll begin a review of this article very soon! My reviews tend to focus on prose and MOS issues, especially on the lede, but I will also comment on anything that could be improved. I'll post up some comments below over the next couple days, which you should either respond to, or ask me questions on issues you are unsure of. I'll be claiming points towards the wikicup once this review is over.

Lede

competed in the Football League Third Division South at the third tier - reword. They competed in the Third Division which is the third tier, not that they competed in this division at the third tier. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:26, 16 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
only three times in 19 - MOS:NUM suggests we should retain either numbers or letters. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:26, 16 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The application was rejected, and as a result the club lost its place in the Football League. - I think the lede could then suggest what they did in the next season. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:26, 16 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Prose

The sequence began on 6 November with a 4–0 defeat away to Cardiff City[22] and continued with a 2–0 defeat at home to Bournemouth & Boscombe Athletic,[23] after which Gillingham were bottom of the table. -nothing wrong with a simple sentence, I'd have a full stop after City. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:26, 16 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Whitelaw and Tug Wilson made the most; both played in 42 of the team's 45 competitive matches. Syd Hartley was the only other player to take part in 40 or more matches - I feel like if we haven't already introduced the players, we should probably give a vague idea of who they are, even if it's just "striker" or "defender". Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:26, 16 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The statistics table uses "apps", but doesn't have anywhere explaining this means "appearances". Perhaps use a Tooltip. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:26, 16 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Additional comments

Additionally, if you liked this review, or are looking for items to review, I have some at my nominations list. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:17, 13 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I've left some comments above, but I really was stretching for things to comment on. I'd like them checked, but I don't think it warrants anything less than a support. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:26, 16 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Lee Vilenski: - thanks for your review, all points addressed -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 15:31, 16 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support from Ceranthor

"The application was rejected and as a result the club lost its place in the Football League." - need a comma after rejected
"The club signed several new players" - it's implied, but I think you should explicitly state for this season or the year
"The veteran half-back was appointed team captain.[8]" - Is this Nichol? unclear to me, a lay reader
"Albert Taylor from Lincoln City, Cyril Walker from Watford, and Archie Young from Leicester City.[9] " - elsewhere you haven't used the serial comma so need to be consistent throughout
"Pre-season matches between Football League members were not permitted at the time and clubs instead generally prepared for the season with a public trial match between two teams chosen from within their own squad of players" - need a comma
"Nichol, Young, Smith, Walker, Taylor, and Dalton" - again, serial comma here but not elsewhere. Not going to go through all the instances here, but you should definitely double check that whichever style you go with is consistent for all lists of three or more throughout
"The club's first match of the season, on 28 August, was away to Bristol City; Nichol, Young, Smith, Walker, Taylor, and Dalton all made their debuts and Taylor scored Gillingham's first goal of the season, but his team lost 3–1; the correspondent for the Sunday Dispatch wrote that Gillingham "did not impress".[13][14]" - way too long. Need to split into two or three sentences
"It was the last game in a Gillingham shirt for both long-serving full-back Fred Lester and Walker," - tone is too informal here. Needs to be a bit more like an encyclopedia
"he team ended their winless run by defeating fellow strugglers Walsall " - similar tone issue here, would be better just to state Walsall's record at that point
"The sequence began on 6 November with a 4–0 defeat away to Cardiff City,[22] and continued with a 2–0 defeat at home to Bournemouth & Boscombe Athletic,[23] after which Gillingham were bottom of the table.[24] " - don't need the comma after Cardiff City
"goalkeeper, Dave Whitelaw, " - bit of a eats shoots and leaves issue here; I think Whitelaw is the goalkeeper but as written it sounds like he's a separate person. Fixed by removing the commas around his name
"Exeter City,[13] but stayed bottom of the table.[27]" - don't need comma
"made their Football League debuts against Exeter and Herbert scored Gillingham's second goal.[28]" - need comma after against Exeter
"Gillingham lost four of their five games in February, the second a 5–0 defeat away to Millwall which was the team's heaviest defeat of the season;[13] all the goals came in the second half." - why highlight just the second loss?
- Because it was their heaviest defeat of the whole season, as mentioned...... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:37, 14 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"but his team lost 4–3 and were eliminated from the competition.[39]" - odd to use "his" rather than "the"; would switch
"In front of an attendance reported as 2,000" - elsewhere you don't state the audience was "reported", so why start now?
"Gillingham would be elected back into the Football League when it increased its membership by four clubs in 1950.[3][49]" - increased by four clubs? I don't understand what that means.

Prose could use some tightening. ceranthor 21:50, 13 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Ceranthor: - many thanks for your review, all addressed bar one as noted -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:37, 14 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Nice work. I'll support now. ceranthor 04:12, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Ian Rose (talk) 16:35, 16 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.