Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Architecture
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This is a collection of discussions on the deletion of articles related to Architecture, buildings, construction, city planning and public spaces. It is one of many deletion lists coordinated by WikiProject Deletion sorting. Anyone can help maintain the list on this page.
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Architecture
[edit]- Clark Patterson Lee (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Notability. Very limited news coverage, mostly mentioned in passing or in a list of other firms. SSR07 (talk) 15:28, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Businesspeople, and Architecture. SSR07 (talk) 15:28, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Companies and New York. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 15:56, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
Delete. Most news mentions are hiring and promotion announcements. Most of the remainder are passing mentions as the architecture firm for some project. I found no significant coverage. - Donald Albury 20:11, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
- Marlinspike Hall (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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This article was tagged for speedy deletion four years ago (by User:Piotrus). The original rationale still applies:
The coverage (references, external links, etc.) does not seem sufficient to justify this article passing Wikipedia:General notability guideline and the more detailed Wikipedia:Notability (fiction) requirement. WP:BEFORE did not reveal any significant coverage on Gnews, Gbooks or Gscholar. If you disagree and deprod this, please explain how it meets them on the talk page here in the form of "This article meets criteria A and B because..." and ping me back through WP:ECHO or by leaving a note at User talk:Piotrus. Thank you.
The tag was removed without addressing any of the issues. Despite the request for discussion, I could not find one.
I agree with the rationale for deletion. WP:BEFORE only shows official Tin Tin materials and other licensed sources. Jontesta (talk) 21:22, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
- Keep. I oppose the proposal for deletion. Tin Tin has been a notable figure in international popular culture over a very extended period and Marlinspike has provided a comprehensive character development and event framework for much of this time. Several of the Tin Tin "adventures" are set predominantly or entirely in this environment. Wikipedia page view, edit and page watcher statistics appear substantive for a short but well written and attractively illustrated article. Citations and source references are adequate for a fictional subject. Removal would frankly appear to be a pointless and potentially unpopular exercise. If however the consensus is for deletion then the alternative of merger should be given serious consideration. Buistr (talk) 02:24, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. Jontesta (talk) 21:22, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Comics and animation-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 04:43, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- Keep. First, about the speedy; a fictional location is not included among the valid speedy deletion candidate categories, so that was never the correct approach. As for notability, "Moulinsart" or "Chateau de Moulinsart" are among the most notable fictional locations in Belgium and France, instantly recognisable to millions. We have whole books like this, "The daily life at Marlinspike", which talks about Tintin in general, but also at length about both the village of Marlinspike and the castle. If there is a good merge target perhaps this can be merged, but deletion is not warranted. Fram (talk) 06:59, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- Comment currently, I am leaning towards a Redirect to List of The Adventures of Tintin locations. All of the sources discussing Marlinspike are official guidebooks, at least from what I can see here. However, I do not know if the nom or anyone else has partaken in a source search in French sources. I would not know where to start unfortunately, but a search through there may prove more fruitful than an English search given Tintin's ubiquity in Belgium. I won't be changing my vote unless something is found, but I do feel there may be promise that hasn't been uncovered yet. Has one ever considered Magneton? Pokelego999 (talk) 17:21, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
- Keep: Very notable topic, has been covered (directly and in depth) in reliable sources.....as any basic search with the French name can confirm -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 09:47, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Architecture, History, Belgium, and France. -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 10:19, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This article has significantly changed since its AfD nomination. -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 18:29, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
- Keep: I think the French sources demonstrate the importance of the location in the collective imagination, and count towards notability. Toughpigs (talk) 18:45, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
- Adam Fox Building (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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It does not meet presumed notability under WP:NBUILD and while it might mean something in the local community, it's just a run of the mill old building that doesn't warrant an encyclopedia article and the sources don't meet the threshold of independent significant coverage needed for for GNG. This appears to be a part of the broader walled garden on Carmel-by-the-Sea, CA buildings/subject matter. Graywalls (talk) 22:43, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: History, United States of America, and California. Graywalls (talk) 22:43, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- Delete. Of the two book sources, the first falls under WP:ARCADIA and consists only of a photo and its caption. The second is some hyperlocal press (possibly the same as Paper Vision Press / Western Tanager Press?) and has only two passing mentions. This level of coverage is not significant and not enough for WP:GNG, even setting aside the Carmel-related issues. —David Eppstein (talk) 00:46, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Architecture-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 06:06, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: Of the four sources available, we've got two primary source government documents and two books from unreliable publishers. Left guide (talk) 07:14, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: The comments above are the valid default criticisms of the Carmelopedia. Axad12 (talk) 08:03, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
- Kaveri–Vaigai Link Canal (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Lack of notability Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 03:57, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Architecture and Tamil Nadu. CptViraj (talk) 05:32, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
- delete as clear case of WP:CRYSTAL. We don't make articles on projects that are merely "envisioned". Mangoe (talk) 13:52, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
- List of windmills in Friesland (T–V) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Unclear why we would need such a detailed list of a type of building, most of which are not individually notable and no longer existing. Replicating other, highly specialised databases here is not really the purpose of Wikipedia. There are or were more than 20,000 windmills in the Netherlands, and many more in other countries. Fram (talk) 15:20, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Architecture, History, Lists, and Netherlands. Fram (talk) 15:20, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- Also nominated for deletion are:
- List of windmills in Friesland (A–C)
- List of windmills in Friesland (D)
- List of windmills in Friesland (E–G)
- List of windmills in Friesland (H–I)
- List of windmills in Friesland (J–K)
- List of windmills in Friesland (L–M)
- List of windmills in Friesland (N–P)
- List of windmills in Friesland (R–S)
- Keep All - per WP:NLIST - the individual windmills do not need to be notable. As the editor doing the majority of work on the various lists of windmills, I've been using my discretion to include all windmills which can be verified to have existed. That the Friesland list has had to be split into several sub-lists is determined by the amount of templates that can be included before the limit size is exceeded. There are over 100 lists of windmills, many of which include all mills. Are we to delete those too? Mjroots (talk) 15:28, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- The individual entries don't need to be notable if the group is notable, and even then "editors may, at their discretion, choose to limit large lists by only including entries for independently notable items or those with Wikipedia articles." A list which needs to be split in 9 separate pages is a large list, and a discussion whether this isn't overkill (assuming the group is notable) is perfectly acceptable, independent of whether we have other lists of windmills or not (I note that many of these other lists seem to be limited to still existing windmills, not including the often shortlived ones from the past). Fram (talk) 15:37, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- The majority of the UK windmills lists cover all known windmills. Mjroots (talk) 15:52, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- And articles like List of windmills in North Brabant cover only the existing ones, no idea what your point is or how this is relevant for this AfD discussion. Fram (talk) 16:08, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- The intention is for all Netherlands windmills lists to cover all mills. Also Belgium as their mills are also well documented. It is easier to verify mills standing than those not standing, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to cover those lost. We've both said our piece, now let's let other editors have their say. Mjroots (talk) 16:12, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- And articles like List of windmills in North Brabant cover only the existing ones, no idea what your point is or how this is relevant for this AfD discussion. Fram (talk) 16:08, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- The majority of the UK windmills lists cover all known windmills. Mjroots (talk) 15:52, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- The individual entries don't need to be notable if the group is notable, and even then "editors may, at their discretion, choose to limit large lists by only including entries for independently notable items or those with Wikipedia articles." A list which needs to be split in 9 separate pages is a large list, and a discussion whether this isn't overkill (assuming the group is notable) is perfectly acceptable, independent of whether we have other lists of windmills or not (I note that many of these other lists seem to be limited to still existing windmills, not including the often shortlived ones from the past). Fram (talk) 15:37, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- Condense down to a single list of the entries that have their own articles, as a reasonable navigation aid (as much as I think that gets overused, it's actually pretty appropriate here). Otherwise, this is just a massive database dump. It may or may not even be reasonable to combine all the separate province lists into a single list for the whole country, but I'll remain ambivalent on that one. 35.139.154.158 (talk) 16:19, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- Bank of Carmel (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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extra hyper-local run of the mill buildings that does not fall under WP:GEOFEAT because it's not protected under national status. Trivial coverage in an Oakland newspaper and SF Chronicle, lots of snippet coverages based on ultra hyper-local Carmel-Pinecone weekly tabloid. This appears to be part of the ongoing construction of Carmel-by-the-Sea related walled garden by one creator. Graywalls (talk) 16:10, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Architecture, History, Business, Companies, and California. Graywalls (talk) 16:10, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
- Keep - The Bank of Carmel is connected with artist Paul Whitman who constructed two bas reliefs for the front of the Bank of Carmel building. The bank article links to Thomas Albert Work, Charles O. Goold, and Barnet J. Segal , who were important directors for the building. The Art Deco style of the building is a significant historical aspect. The city of Carmel has recognized the building as an important historical site in there Downtown Conservation District Historic Property Survey. Secondary sources by Kent Seavey and Sharron Lee Hale (see edit request) show WP:SIGCOV and WP:NBUILDING. The building is notable as a result of its historic, social, and architectural importance. Greg Henderson (talk) 16:44, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
- Regarding Seavey, how significant is the coverage? The citation in the article is to a single page, and the link provided shows that this page is just a photo & caption in a book of photos. Axad12 (talk) 16:54, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
- It is not about size of coverage but about what is significant. The Kent Seavey book gives a good overview of Bank of Carmel, how it looked before it has been turned into a retail store, its relationship to Barnet J. Segal and artist Paul Whitman. It is an important source to show the historical important of the building. I've added a second source in an edit request on the talk page. Greg Henderson (talk) 17:02, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
- So, just to be clear, when you say "good overview" you mean a single photo and caption?
- Do we assume therefore that, in your opinion, every property with a photograph in that book satisfies WP:NBUILDING? Or, indeed, every property that has ever appeared in a captioned photograph in any book? Axad12 (talk) 17:07, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
- It is more than a photo and a caption. Under the photo is a full, multi-sentence description with names, dates, and info on the bank. WP:GNG's "significant coverage" does not require a volume of words. It can also mean the quality of the words. Greg Henderson (talk) 17:13, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
- It is a captioned photo in a local picture book. However, I do agree with you when you say that to you that qualifies as WP:SIGCOV. Axad12 (talk) 17:19, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
- Oh, you changed your comment - you deleted the bit that said "To me that is WP:SIGCOV". Why did you delete that bit? Axad12 (talk) 17:22, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
- Greg, please, multiple editors have explained to you multiple times that a photograph or a photo caption does not count as SIGCOV nor contributes to notability criteria. It might be ok to use to back up a fact, but that's it. Do you not remember reading or hearing this advice in the past? Netherzone (talk) 17:37, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
- Editors are allowed to make changes. The topic of WP:GNG is important in relation to WP:SIGCOV. Greg Henderson (talk) 17:47, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
- So, you still say Seavey counts as SIGCOV? Axad12 (talk) 17:56, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
- The correct way (meaning best practices) to make changes at AfDs is to strike out the text that is no longer applicable or changed, then add the new text. That is so other editors can have a comprehensive understanding of the points being made. Netherzone (talk) 02:36, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- Oh, you changed your comment - you deleted the bit that said "To me that is WP:SIGCOV". Why did you delete that bit? Axad12 (talk) 17:22, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
- It is a captioned photo in a local picture book. However, I do agree with you when you say that to you that qualifies as WP:SIGCOV. Axad12 (talk) 17:19, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
- It is more than a photo and a caption. Under the photo is a full, multi-sentence description with names, dates, and info on the bank. WP:GNG's "significant coverage" does not require a volume of words. It can also mean the quality of the words. Greg Henderson (talk) 17:13, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
- It is not about size of coverage but about what is significant. The Kent Seavey book gives a good overview of Bank of Carmel, how it looked before it has been turned into a retail store, its relationship to Barnet J. Segal and artist Paul Whitman. It is an important source to show the historical important of the building. I've added a second source in an edit request on the talk page. Greg Henderson (talk) 17:02, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
- @Greghenderson2006:, all of those names are biography articles in your walled garden in Carmel/Pebble Beach/Monterey/California topic area. Graywalls (talk) 17:37, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
- I had the exact same thought earlier this morning - yet another walled garden. Probably many of these articles can be merged or redirected, but this is yet another big clean up project. It may be best waiting a week or two, and tackling it in an organized way, identifying key articles are indisputably notable that might be appropriate merge/redirect targets. Thoughts? Netherzone (talk) 17:42, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
- To above comments: Please read the follwoing two articles:
- I think they are key here as it covers the topic of deleting articles in Wikipedia, excessive rule-making, edit warring, and uneven policy application. Greg Henderson (talk) 17:44, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, if only there wasn't so much excessive rule-making, e.g. UPE, COI, GNG, SIGCOV, etc., etc. Axad12 (talk) 17:47, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
- WP:NOTINHERITED. Full stop. Ravenswing 22:56, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- Regarding Seavey, how significant is the coverage? The citation in the article is to a single page, and the link provided shows that this page is just a photo & caption in a book of photos. Axad12 (talk) 16:54, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
- Comment - I haven't yet looked into all of the sources, but at least half of the current ones are press releases, they are not even "trivial coverage", they are press-release based PR announcements placed in newspapers, not SIGCOV. See Wikipedia:Independent_sources#Press_releases for more information. Netherzone (talk) 16:48, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
- What you call press releases are actually important pieces of primary source information that tells a story and is part of the history! For example, "Carmel Notes". Oakland Tribune. Oakland, California. 14 Oct 1923. p. 25. Retrieved 2022-05-24, says "Carmel's new bank was the first and only one the city has had." This indicates it was the first bank in Carmel-by-the-Sea, California, which is significant. Greg Henderson (talk) 17:08, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
- No, they are press releases. Netherzone (talk) 22:32, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
- What you call press releases are actually important pieces of primary source information that tells a story and is part of the history! For example, "Carmel Notes". Oakland Tribune. Oakland, California. 14 Oct 1923. p. 25. Retrieved 2022-05-24, says "Carmel's new bank was the first and only one the city has had." This indicates it was the first bank in Carmel-by-the-Sea, California, which is significant. Greg Henderson (talk) 17:08, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
- Delete. I can't tell if the article is supposed to be about the short-lived bank or the building. If it's about the bank, it fails the WP:NCORP test of WP:SIGCOV in WP:SIRS, and if it's about the building, which is not on any historic registers that carry presumed notability, it fails WP:NBUILD, which calls for "significant in-depth coverage." What's offered here is a series of primary sources, trivial local newspaper mentions, and unreliable sources like Arcadia. Dclemens1971 (talk) 20:57, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
- Delete - I agree with the nom that this is part of the Carmel WP:Walled garden, yet another run of the mill local building that is not on the NRHP, thus failing WP:BUILD. I am also in agreement with Dclemens1971 that as a bank it does not meet WP:NCORP criteria for SIRS & SIGCOV. The creator still does not seem to understand that notability is not inherited from allegedly "notable" people associated with the structure. What we have in terms of sourcing is: 1) a nomination form by the Parks & Recreation (primary source); 2) a press-release printed in a newspaper (primary source); 3) another press release (primary source), 4) another press release (primary source); 5) a photo and photo caption in a tourist-trade book published by a marginal publisher (Arcadia) whose reliability is questionable (not SIGCOV and low-quality source); 6) a short piece without a by-line in the hyper-local weekly tabloid, The Pine Cone; 7) a meeting agenda (primary source, really wondering why this is even included?); 8) a 404 dead link in The Pine Cone (hyper local weekly tabloid); 9) an advertisement in The Pine Cone (WTF?); 10) a photo and caption in a report by the City of Carmel (primary source). None of this contributes to the notability of the bank as a business nor the building, therefore also fails WP:GNG. Netherzone (talk) 22:53, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
- Comment - Looks like Netherzone and Graywalls always come to the plate to delete good articles that have plenty of sources, including primary and secondary ones. This Deletionists mentality is a reason why many have criticism of Wikipedia. An enclypodia should free to write on many topics both of local and national interest. Based on WP:GNG, the article has significant coverage in reliable sources. More sources have been included in the edit request. Instead of trying to delte articles we should be encouraging fellow Wikipedians to add additional sources if needed. I feel that some people are to quick to judge and just delete articles they don't like. That shouldn't be how an enclypodia works to educate them on topics like the first bank in Carmel! Greg Henderson (talk) 23:43, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: Part of a campaign to get every last ditch of Carmel-by-the-Sea related stuff into Wikipedia, even if they are not notable and there is little to no reliable sourcing, which includes this article. Most of the article's sources are not independent of the subject or are press releases. HarukaAmaranth 01:28, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- Please also see edit request sources. BTW, the Carmel Bank was a pretty notable bank in its day. It was the first bank in that city. Greg Henderson (talk) 01:47, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- The various superlatives of first, biggest, richest, largest, oldest in a local villages and townships are not a cause for creating an encyclopedia article. Graywalls (talk) 03:08, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- Please also see edit request sources. BTW, the Carmel Bank was a pretty notable bank in its day. It was the first bank in that city. Greg Henderson (talk) 01:47, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- Delete For the reasons outlined by Dclemens1971 and Netherzone Axad12 (talk) 09:39, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- Delete – Netherzone's thorough source-by-source analysis is spot-on as usual, and Dclemens1971 also provides an accurate summary of the available coverage and how it squares up to notability guidelines. Left guide (talk) 11:29, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- Delete WP is not a platform for local tourism projects, we have guidelines for establishing notability which requires a certain standard from sources, none of which are met here. HighKing++ 14:58, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- I disagree. This is certainly not tourism! It about the history of bank, which was the 1st bank in the village of Carmel-by-the-Sea. Greg Henderson (talk) 20:30, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: Fails WP:GNG and part of a Carmel-by-the-Sea walled garden of non notable entities 🇺🇦 FiddleTimtrent FaddleTalk to me 🇺🇦 22:13, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: Honestly, it's looking like WP:CreatedbyGregHenderson is going to wind up as one of the tacit reasons to advocate deletion. An obvious GNG fail to anyone not GH, and if he wants to continue to promote Carmel following his community block at ANI, he can do so on his own website, and best of luck to him. Ravenswing 22:55, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
Architecture Proposed deletions
[edit]- CCG Profiles (via WP:PROD on 7 September 2023)
Categories
[edit]Requested moves
[edit]See also
[edit]Transcluded pages
[edit]The following pages are transcluded here following from relationships among WikiProjects
- Deletion sorting: Visual Arts (WP:Visual arts is a descendant of WP:Arts)