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The following discussion is an archived debate. Please do not modify it. To request review of this BRFA, please start a new section at Wikipedia:Bots/Noticeboard. The result of the discussion was  Approved.

BattyBot 61

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Operator: GoingBatty (talk · contribs · SUL · edit count · logs · page moves · block log · rights log · ANI search)

Time filed: 17:18, Tuesday, September 21, 2021 (UTC)

Function overview: In various person infoboxes, change values in the |nationality= field from country names to nationalities.

Automatic, Supervised, or Manual: Automatic

Programming language(s): AutoWikiBrowser

Source code available: AWB, User:BattyBot/Nationality

Links to relevant discussions (where appropriate): Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser/Tasks#Template:Infobox writer

Edit period(s): Monthly run

Estimated number of pages affected: Thousands initially

Namespace(s): Mainspace/Articles

Exclusion compliant (Yes/No): Yes

Function details: In various person infoboxes, change values in the |nationality= field from country names to nationalities (e.g. United Kingdom or [[United Kingdom]] → British, United States or [[United States]] → American). I created a list of infoboxes and countries/nationalities at User:BattyBot/Nationality. Also run AWB's general fixes when updating the field. GoingBatty (talk) 17:18, 21 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

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@ProcrastinatingReader: Advertised at Template talk:Infobox person, Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard, and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Biography, per your request. GoingBatty (talk) 19:39, 21 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
(editor from WikiProject Biography} I see that this would be a good candidate for a bot task, as it's defined find and replace rules essentially. No issues from me. Dreamy Jazz talk to me | my contributions 19:56, 21 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Not sure about updating a parameter that is usually mis-used per WP:INFONAT. It's usually redundant and should be removed. MB 20:27, 21 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
You raise a good point. I don't see that the bot task itself adds to the problem of the mis-using. Perhaps this bot task, another bot task or just an editor could go round and remove the nationality parameter if it's the same as the one listed in the birthplace? If this is run before this bot task, then it would significantly reduce the number of pages the bot edits where the nationality parameter is later removed. However, I don't see the issue of the parameter being mis-used as a major problem preventing this task from being good. I think this because I see this as a small and minor change, which only improves the page. Dreamy Jazz talk to me | my contributions 10:37, 22 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Just pointing this out to generate discussion. Nothing wrong per se with this proposal. But to remove the nationality, a bot would have to have the logic to determine, for example, |nationality=American can be removed if |birth_place=United States. It may be preferable to handle this with one bot as you suggested. Editors who are aware of this do remove nationality manually, and other editors sometimes put it back; there are probably tens of thousands of articles where it is there unnecessarily. A bot would help in this cleanup effort. Another minor point is UK/US/U.S are sometimes used; can those be added to the table? MB 16:26, 22 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@MB and Dreamy Jazz: Before a bot removes redundant |nationality= values, I suggest updating the various template instructions to specify not to add a value if it's redundant. I updated User:BattyBot/Nationality with variations of US & UK. GoingBatty (talk) 16:40, 22 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I had assumed that as INFONAT exists, the template documentation would follow the MoS. Re MB, thanks for raising it. It's good to have this discussed before the BRFA is over. Dreamy Jazz talk to me | my contributions 12:19, 23 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Just realised that {{Infobox person}} does say not to use nationality if it's the same as birth place. As such the template documentation is the same from my point of view. Dreamy Jazz talk to me | my contributions 12:28, 23 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Dreamy Jazz: Thanks for checking. MB and I added the same comment "<!-- use only when necessary per [[WP:INFONAT]] -->" to other person infoboxes. GoingBatty (talk) 15:32, 23 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Bagumba: I documented the list of infoboxes at User:BattyBot/Nationality. Thanks for asking! GoingBatty (talk) 14:49, 23 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I support changing the link as proposed. I do not support the side proposal above to remove |nationality=, as some of the ibx's besides {{Infobox person}} have convention to use nationality, e.g. sportspersons. It's a convention in some, for example, to list nationality as "American", while not duplicating "U.S." in birthplace.—Bagumba (talk) 01:38, 24 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Bagumba: Thank you for sharing this information. I'm happy to keep this bot task limited to changing the parameter as proposed. GoingBatty (talk) 02:23, 24 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Sports IBs shouldn't be following a "convention" that goes against the MOS. However, I do see that this is not the place to open that issue up. The bot could do this in the non-sports infoboxes where, as far as I am aware, there hasn't been any significant opposition. Or maybe a different task. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MB (talk • contribs) 17:33, 26 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
... goes against the MOS: The MOS addition was relatively recent. Plenty of bios already listed the nationality without simultaneously including the country in the birthplace, meaning there is no redundancy. Blindly removing the nationality parameter in those cases would leave no trace of their nationality in the infobox.—Bagumba (talk) 01:46, 8 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Bagumba: I am happy to restrict my task to the initial request: changing values from country names to nationalities (and not deleting). GoingBatty (talk) 02:02, 8 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Great. I had already expressed support for those limited changes. Regards.—Bagumba (talk) 02:06, 8 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Bagumba, You completely misunderstood me. I did not mean to blindly remove nationality in any cases. I was suggesting the bot could compare the country in the nationality field with that in the birth_place field, and then remove nationality if identical. But we can leave that for a future task. MB 19:10, 20 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@MB: No insult intended. I agree fine tuning can be an option, as long as the bot respects that some projects don't have country listed, while consciously choosing to use nationality. Cheers.—Bagumba (talk) 01:40, 22 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

{{BAG assistance needed}} GoingBatty (talk) 22:26, 6 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Approved for trial (50 edits). Please provide a link to the relevant contributions and/or diffs when the trial is complete. Primefac (talk) 07:23, 20 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Primefac: Trial complete. - see these 50 edits. I used a variety of countries in my testing. Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 14:26, 20 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I went through these 50 edits and found one one problem. {{infobox skier}} has |nationality= but displays it as Country. This is at root a problem with the template. For now, I think this task should skip articles using this template. See Jan Schmid for an example. MB 19:13, 20 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@MB: Thank you for noticing (and fixing) this issue! I have adjusted User:BattyBot/Nationality to exclude Template:Infobox skier. Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 01:57, 21 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

{{BAG assistance needed}} GoingBatty (talk) 13:58, 29 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

 Approved. Primefac (talk) 11:40, 11 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. To request review of this BRFA, please start a new section at Wikipedia:Bots/Noticeboard.
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