User talk:Zack212345

Welcome!

Hello, Zack212345, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions.

There's a page about creating articles you may want to read called Your first article. If you are stuck, and looking for help, please come to the New contributors' help page, where experienced Wikipedians can answer any queries you have! Or, you can just type {{help me}} on this page, and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Here are a few other good links for newcomers:

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October 2017

Please do not add or change content, as you did at Downers Grove, Illinois, without citing a reliable source. Please review the guidelines at Wikipedia:Citing sources and take this opportunity to add references to the article. Unless you have reliable secondary sources that discuss the importance of this non notable company to the local economy, leave it out. It appears quite promotional. John from Idegon (talk) 02:18, 10 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

You may be blocked from editing without further warning the next time you use Wikipedia for soapboxing, promotion or advertising, as you did at Downers Grove, Illinois. Unless you have reliable secondary sources that discuss the economic impact of this company, stop adding it. If you have a problem with that, you go to the article's talk page and seek consensus for inclusion. There is nothing implied in our motto "The Encyclopedia anyone can edit" that implies you can add whatever you want. John from Idegon (talk) 22:53, 10 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

You may be blocked from editing without further warning the next time you use Wikipedia for soapboxing, promotion or advertising, as you did at Downers Grove, Illinois. Magnolia677 (talk) 23:20, 10 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

You have been blocked indefinitely from editing for advertising or promotion. From your contributions, this seems to be your only purpose.

If you think there are good reasons for being unblocked, please read the guide to appealing blocks, then add the following text below the block notice on your talk page: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}. Alex Shih ^Talk 23:46, 10 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Zack212345 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

your reason here

Decline reason:

This edit appears overtly promotional. Yamla (talk) 00:19, 11 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

I request to be unblocked immediately. Nothing I posted had anything to do with advertising. I would suggest you block the people who blocked me. They are on Wikipedia only to ruin it not to improve it for other users like i am trying to do.Zack212345 (talk) 00:04, 11 October 2017 (UTC)Zack212345[reply]

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Zack212345 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

Your reason here I do not know what they are referring to when they say "this user vandalized my talk page". I would never knowingly mess with another users page. As a business professional and a resident of Downers Grove I was just trying to update the local economy to a business that had brought new customers into the downtown area. I would truly appreciate you looking at my block and unblocking my account so that I may continue to use Wikipedia to help enhance many pages. Thank you. Zack212345 (talk) 03:01, 11 October 2017 (UTC)Zack212345[reply]

Decline reason:

You appear to be completely oblivious to how your edits have damaged Wikipedia. Unless your next unblock request shows an awareness of the problems with your behaviour and a willingness to change it, you can expect to lose your access to this page as well. Yunshui ^雲 _水 08:01, 11 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

Yunshui, Could you please let me know how my edits have damaged Wikipedia. I don't understand and would like to know so I can correct my action in the future. Thank you. Zack212345 (talk) 22:24, 11 October 2017 (UTC)Zack212345[reply]

Your repeated addition of essentially the same material was disruptive. Once you were told it wasn't acceptable, your choices were to accept that and move on, or to start a discussion on the article's talk page and try to win consensus for your changes via civil reasoned discourse. Instead, you edit-warred, persisting even after your were warned repeatedly. The fact that you are here again, inquiring why your edits were damaging, rather than reading any of the numerous links you've been provided to try to determine why your edits were damaging on your own, is quite indicative of the fact that you simply don't get it. All of your edits were on the exact same subject. No-one would be reacting as harshly as we are if you had made many poor edits on different subjects. Your insistence on getting material in on a small inconsequential local company reeks of promotion. You are going to need to convince the administrators that A) You have no connection to that company, B)that none of your edits in the future will concern that company, C)that you understand Wikipedia's pillar policies, D) that you understand how content disputes should be handled (read WP:BRD) and lastly E) explain what you intend to do, specifically, if you are unblocked and how that will benefit Wikipedia. You have to understand that you made the choices that got you here. You can clear it up and continue on, or you can continue to be obstructive. Your choice. I'd suggest you remove the posting immediately above this. I doubt he was kidding when he said "Unless your next unblock request shows an awareness of the problems with your behaviour and a willingness to change it, you can expect to lose your access to this page as well." John from Idegon (talk) 23:20, 11 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

John from Idegon Thank you for your response. First off I have no connection to this company. I wouldn't really call it a "small local company" if they are in thousands of stores nation wide. Nothing I said had anything to do with promotion. I simply added information about a company in Downers Grove that didn't have any information about it. Can you explain how that seems like promotion to you. Zack212345 (talk) 23:27, 11 October 2017 (UTC)Zack212345[reply]

Because only you are saying it. We don't care what you know, we don't care what I know. It's all about sources, and you need a better one than the company you are writing about (and you have been told this too). How is it that some random guy who "just wants the world to be better informed" comes equipped with sales figures from a rather obscure company? This may be the first time you've done this, but it isn't the first time we've seen it. Stop writing and start reading please. You've all the resources you need to answer any and all of your questions in the links that have been posted to this page, but I doubt it matters. You seem to suffer from a great unwillingness to listen. I guess it is a good thing that you screwed up the unblock template you tried to submit above that I suggested you remove (and you haven't). If that is acted on, you are going to get your talk page access revoked. Anyone at all will more than glad to help you clarify what the various policies and guidelines mean, but it is up to you to become conversant enough with them to ask clarifying questions. John from Idegon (talk) 23:38, 11 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

John from Idegon If your motto is "The encyclopedia anyone can edit" wouldn't that imply that any user can add facts that they know? Secondly I did not provide sales figures. A sales figure would be about the number of sales the company has or yearly revenue. Also as you can clearly tell from my asking help I am not unwilling to listen. And if "Anyone at all will more than glad to help you clarify what the various policies and guidelines mean" then why don't you help me out? Zack212345 (talk) 23:46, 11 October 2017 (UTC)Zack212345[reply]

@Marchjuly, please stop editing my talk page.This is my page not yours and I should be able to be in control of it. Not you. Thank you Zack212345 (talk) 00:48, 12 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

(Non-administrator comment) Declined unblock requests for a currently active block are not to be removed per WP:BLANKING. This allows other adminstrators to see why prevoius unblocked requests have been declined and decide whether the situation has changed any. Removing the declined requests is actually to your disadvantage and will make it more likely that your account will not be unblocked. Moreover, continuing to remove the declined request will likely lead to an administrator to take away your ability to edit this talk page. If you would like to appeal your block, please read WP:GAB and follow the suggestions given there. For what its worth, an indefinite block does not mean "forever", but continuing to ignore the instructions of administrators will not make any of them want to unblock you.

As for user talk pages, no we don't own them as explained in WP:UP#OWN. We are only borrowing them from Wikipedia per se, and we are required to use them in accordance with relevant policies and guidelines. You have quite a bit of lattitude when it comes to this user talk page, but you still need to follow WP:TPG and WP:UP.

FWIW, I am not trying to be adversarial, but am actually trying to help you avoid digging yourself into a hole that becomes too deep for you to get out of. You've just started editing, but unfortunately you've started out on the wrong foot. Mistakes are expected from new editors and even those who are blocked can be unblocked, so this does not have to be the end. Administrators are more than happy to unblock accounts when they feel there is no risk of any further disruption. You're best chance is to try and avoid WP:NOTTHEM and ask an adminsitrator what you need to do to have this account unblocked. In other words, you need to convince an adminstrator that you want to be WP:HERE and not WP:NOTHERE, and repeatedly removing declined unblocked requests (even after being advised not to do so) is not going to help you do that. -- Marchjuly (talk) 00:58, 12 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Marchjuly. My apologizes I did not mean to be confrontational in my last message to you. Thank you for the information I did not realize that I wasn't supposed to take that down. How does one go about convincing admin that I should be unblocked. I have stated my point of view multiple times but it seems what I say is not being taken into account. I even said that I wanted to fix what I did but they contuine to say I am "unwilling" to listen. Thanks for any advice you can offer. Zack212345 (talk) 02:26, 12 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The first thing I think you should do is try and understand that adminstrators have been chosen by the Wikipedia Community to take actions they deem necessary to prevent any disruption, so it helps to assume good faith when discussing things with them. Adminstrators tend to be very helpful and provide lots of good information if you give them the chance, but they're going to be less willing to help editors who keep refusing to listen. Blocks are intended to be preventive not punative and adminstrators only tend to block to prevent any further disruption. So, try to step outside of yourself and re-read some of the messages posted above by others. Assume that they are WP:HERE and look at the links they've included in their posts. I can try and explain why, but the information is already in those posts.

Once you've gotten a better understanding of why this account was blocked, you should be able to better request that it be unblocked per WP:GAB. Wikipedia is not really about winning and this can be something that takes time getting used to. Editors who are truly WP:HERE eventually realize that not every disagreement is going to go their way and that eventually it's time to move on to improving other articles.

So, my suggestion is to give things a day or so to cool down (repeating the same unblock request again and again just is going to tick adminstrators off) and then try and formulate a new unblock request which (1) shows you understand the reasons why you were blocked (2) indicates what you will do to prevent the same situation from happening again and (3) ask if there are any specific things you need to do to show the community that you want to be WP:HERE. If you can do that, you might get a more positive response from an admin. What I do not suggest you do is trying to evade the block by creating new accounts or IP editing, or posting comments that only further exacerbate things. -- Marchjuly (talk) 02:57, 12 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Marchjuly thank you for all of the information. I will do all of the suggested steps that you gave me and see where that gets me. Thanks again.Zack212345 (talk) 03:03, 12 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

FWIW, most experienced editors are only interested in making sure that Wikipedia articles are written in accordance with relevant policies and guidelines, and they will only revert/remove content when the feel there is no other option. If sometime in the future you're reverted again, try to follow WP:BRD instead of automatically reverting the revert because this will typically be seen as edit warring unless it necessary per WP:NOT3RR. Finally, take a look at WP:INDENT to learn more about how to properly format talk page posts. Also, WP:PING has information on how to "ping" other editors. The former will make discussion threads easier to follow, and the latter will help let others know that you would like them to comment. Good luck to you. -- Marchjuly (talk) 04:50, 12 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the info MarchjulyZack212345 (talk) 01:06, 16 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]