User talk:Yintan/Archives/2013/October

Top Gear controversies

I just want you to know I by accidentally undid your edit to the Top Gear controversies. Sorry bout that. Didn't mean to do that. ///EuroCarGT 21:43, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

No problem, we all make mistakes. Just don't report me for vandalism Yintan  09:08, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Talk:Bradley Manning/October 2013 move request

Greetings. Because you participated in the August 2013 move request regarding this subject, you may be interested in participating in the current discussion. This notice is provided pursuant to Wikipedia:Canvassing#Appropriate notification. Cheers! bd2412 T 21:39, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

No, thanks. I'm not going anywhere near that Disaster Area again. It's political correctness gone mad. Yintan  22:56, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

changes to UNSW page and Sydney University Pages

Your info page for UNSW seem biased. Whenever you try to describe achievements to UNSW page you compare it with Sydney Uni pages and undo common knowledge that everyone know about UNSW in Australia. You data about Sydney University also shows nepotism towards that university. It seems to me that you are a graduate of Sydney Uni no wonder you make the edit to UNSW as biased. UNSW is a highly selective and prestigious university. If you look at ATAR cutoffs it most selective in NSW and the good university guide 2014 also says that it has more 5 stars than any other Australian University. With regard to Sydney uni you mostly use old data from times higher education to describe its achievement but if you look closely its ratings has fallen in ARWU rankings and even in the times higher education rankings. Please update the edit page and make wikipedia more fair from you constant malicious edits to UNSW page. If you don't know any info about UNSW try to ask someone like me or go to its website www.unsw.edu.au. Kind regards

Frank — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.167.29.43 (talk) 10:07, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

Are you referring to my reversal of your edit four months ago? That was because you removed sourced content without explanation. As I explained on your Talk page at the time. Yintan  10:58, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

reference for the future

I dont understand if i reference the article like saying UNSW is top for social sciences in NSW (http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/faculty-rankings/social-sciences-and-management/2013) is true i have provided the link. You also fail to provide clarification for changes to USYD pages. And if we can compare Usyd to UNSW in the pages why can't i compare Usyd to University of Melbourne, i fail to see your logic of editing things according to your whims and adding stuff to the page even when referenced. Kindly add the link to page as i did before and now provided link. I dont have so much time trying to argue with the likes of you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.190.2.98 (talk) 11:39, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

"The likes of me" are following Wikipedia guidelines and policies. So should you. And I've never reverted anything sourced in that article. You're probably talking to the wrong person. Yintan  12:22, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

Neutrality on Preston

As it stands, the current page is a whitewash, and fails to reflect the facts. Some mention must be made of the Tisdall episode. Perhaps it might be written: "there are those that feel Preston's credibility never recovered from...." etc.

Regards

Adam — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.186.207.8 (talk) 14:36, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

Better not. Phrases like "some people think" or "there are those that feel" are weasel words and to be avoided. Cheers, Yintan  15:10, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

E.T

Please don't do that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.113.227.117 (talk) 14:38, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

That's exactly what I'm thinking when I see your edits. I strongly suggest you familiarize yourself with Wikipedia guidelines before editing again. WP:HELP is a good place to start. Cheers, Yintan  15:12, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

Re: Difference between 'politician' and 'statesman'

pol·i·ti·cian \"pä-lə-'ti-shən\ n (1589) 1 : a person experienced in the art or science of government ; esp: one actively engaged in conducting the business of a government 2 a : a person engaged in party politics as a profession b : a person primarily interested in political office for selfish or other narrow usu. short-sighted reasons states·man \'stāts-mən\ n (1592) 1 : one versed in the principles or art of government ; esp: one actively engaged in conducting the business of a government or in shaping its policies 2 : one who exercises political leadership wisely and without narrow partisanship — states·man·like \-"līk\ adj — states·man·ly \-lē\ adj — states·man·ship \-"ship\ n Source: Merriam-Webster's Dictionary ;-)

Did you even read the original page? If you keep this up, I shall report you for vandalism! JLSperling1 (talk) 15:00, 5 October 2013 (UTC)JLSperling1

Go right ahead, that will be fun. But before you do that, consider two things: 1) we don't add dictionary definitions to articles so the editors who reverted your edits were correct. 2) You're about to break the WP:3RR rule, which could get you blocked. Kind regards, Yintan  15:05, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

1. Using the Royal "we" is not terribly helpful. 2. I stated that the original entry was in error and demonstrated it by citations. Please demonstrate how I was in error.JLSperling1 (talk) 16:26, 5 October 2013 (UTC)JLSperling1

Sigh. 1) It's not the Royal "we", it's "we" as in "we, people who edit Wikipedia according to its policies and guidelines". 2) "We" don't add dictionary definitions to articles. 3) Discussions about errors in the article should take place on the article's Talk page, not in the article itself. This edit[1] of yours does not make any sense. I can't make it any clearer. Yintan  16:41, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

Sorry to see the "semi-retired" notice on your page

For some reason I thought of you today and checked your user page. I was startled to see the pages semi-blanked and with the semi-retired notices. I hope you are feeling OK. And that maybe whatever was frustrating you will blow over or you will reconsider and come back someday soon in a better frame of mind. You are a very valued asset to Wikipedia, and will be greatly missed if you stay away. All best wishes. Sincerely, Softlavender (talk) 05:14, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Dear Yintan, I'd like to second Softlavender's sentiment in the above paragraph. If you are unwell, then please follow your doctor's advice and get well soon. If you are taking a break from WP, then enjoy it and come back refreshed when you feel ready. In any case, please know that at least two of your friends were thinking of you today and are looking forward to your return. Until then, please keep happy and stay strong. With kind regards; Patrick. Pdebee (talk) 14:11, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Hi guys. Thanks for your messages. Thing is, I'm not sure what to do here anymore. Fighting vandalism (my main activity) is becoming utterly depressing. As long as Wikipedia allows anonymous editing (and as long as the registration process is a joke compared to any other forum/site), there will be an enormous amount of vandalism, always. If all vandal fighters would stop for a just a week, the wiki would be a complete mess. I feel like I'm trying to mop up the sea. An endless task. Now I can of course do something else, but then the question is what? My English isn't good enough to write articles (it's my 3rd language) and besides, I'm not much of a writer. I've been adding some photos to articles, little things like that, but that's not enough to keep me happy here. So I'm a little lost. Not sure what I can do, besides the (utterly frustrating) vandal hunt. Yintan  20:38, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Sorry to hear that anti-vandalism is wearing you down. Still, I think that all of our efforts help, in whatever capacity we serve, in making Wikipedia better. It's not perfect, but I enjoy contributing, making whatever part of it I engage with better. I personally don't think that the fact that WP is imperfect or that policies are inefficient should deter one beyond a simple philosophical laugh at the human condition. Your AV efforts have been appreciated and praised by many. We need all the help we can get! But if you wanted to switch, I have to comment that not only is your English not remiss, it's quite brilliant and eloquent. If you don't like writing that's another thing, but don't say your English is in any way lacking. Anyway, I hear what you're saying. Personally, I think we all go through phases of being sick of things here. Perhaps this is one such phase on your part, or perhaps it's something else. Hey have you ever considered becoming an admin? You have good judgment and a sense of fairness and detachment and humor, and you know Wikipedia policies well -- all qualities that make a good admin. Anyway, I wish you well, and hope you know that you are greatly appreciated on Wikipedia. Softlavender (talk) 20:58, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Dear Yintan; it's a great relief to know that your 'semi-retirement' isn't caused by ill-health. I can quite understand why anti-vandalism can be dispiriting (I am not sure I would want to do it myself for very long either!) As our friend Softlavender said so eloquently above, there are still many other types of contribution you could make; for example, the guidance you so generously extended to me just a few short weeks ago was so encouraging that it helped me significantly in learning how to do the right thing in a new and unfamiliar environment; I knew what I wanted to do, but I didn't really have a clue about how to do it within the WP philosophy until you intervened. Your approach was a very balanced combination of gentle firmness and empowerment: you peppered your messages to me with links to the MOS etc. and that set me on a journey of discovery about the whole ethos and methods of the encyclopedia. You may not realize this, but you are a natural *mentor*, and maybe this is a task that you might enjoy more than fighting AV; please consider focusing more on welcoming newbies and guiding them the same way you guided me. In any case, I can only speak for myself, based on my own experience, but I wouldn't be exaggerating when I say that all I am able to do, here at WP, I owe it to you and to your firm but helpful approach during my first steps as a contributor; I always knew you were on my side and I found it tremendously motivating. And I would never have guessed English wasn't your first language, by the way. So, please kindly reflect on the above and consider that helping and encouraging newbies proceed in the right direction might well contribute to counter-balancing the toxic and deleterious effect of the vandals. Thank you for your time in reading this message, and I hope you will keep in touch. With kind regards for now and thank you once again, dear Yintan, for everything I have learned thanks to you. Your WP friend; Patrick. ;-) Pdebee (talk) 21:37, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Very good call, Pdebee. There are many ways to serve here and YinTan has so many talents, not the least of which are interpersonal and mentoring skills. Also, it's good to remember that Wikipedia is a community, and we feel sad when a valued and loved member of the community leaves or disappears or retires. I hope YT can find many other outlets for his skills here. We really need more people like him here! Softlavender (talk) 21:43, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Dear Softlavender; Thank you for taking the time to post your response above. I agree with you fully on all your points, particularly your hope that our friend Yintan will find an activity here at the encyclopedia that will bring him enjoyment as well as the simple reward of a job well done. Wikipedia is all the richer for having him on board and, like you, I am saddened by his recent decision to semi-retire. Thanks once again for being here when he needed us! With kind regards; @}-- Patrick. Pdebee (talk) 12:56, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

Hello Yintan! It's sad to see the Semi-Retired template on top of your page, your humor and anti-vandalism work has delighted us in many ways. It's sad to see you depressed with your contributions here, I know how feels like, I also do anti-vandalism work and sometimes feel depressed from the activity, me sitting in front of my computer for hours clicking that red button on Huggle everyday. I just want to have a break and play videos games all day, however with no anti-vandal users like you, this site would be a complete mess and ClueBotNG would be "massively out of control" reverting every minute. I was in a situation like you before, months ago I was highly active on Yahoo Answers a site where you could get questions and answers from a community, I got lots of points, was Top Contributor for months and a Top Answerer for a section, however I was bored and depressed as you are now and now I left the site 3 months ago before going on vacation, I still visit the website to get answers however I don't feel like participating anymore cause it's tiring, boring and I felt like I wasted many hours of my life spending on that site. However I realized I left a community behind, I left many people clueless and many people had questions waiting to be answered, in your case leaving the Wikipedia community is something to look at, leaving a community with wonderful people like you is the key point, we are "one soldier down". For me content creation is not my forte here as if I created an article, the article would probably get tagged with deletion tags. I wished Wikipedia would be cleaned up, their are lots of problems here, say WP:AIV is backlogged everyday and needs serious help, I wished some highly-active trusted users would be given temporary mop so things could be fixed and persistent vandalizers would be blocked, another example would be discussions, many discussions are out of control such as noticeboards, people are fighting about which user did what and so on. Back then (years 2006 and below), this site was calm and with not too much vandalism, WP:RfA was a civil and calm page, you just add yourself and state why you should be admin and with a few support, you'll be granted the mop now today users are fighting about whether a user should not be admin because they lack of skill in some way, even way before in 2003, ie: Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Tim Starling, a user would say "I want to be admin" and within a few hours to days a bureaucrat would say your admin! For my recommendation is I would try being active over at Wikimedia Commons, photography may not be your strength by take photos of your favourite things and upload them there continue it and you'll love it, less vandalism and lots of fun. Photography could be your passion and doesn't require writing articles and using lots of English! As many users stated above users like you is what helps this site and what makes this site one of the top 10 most visited sites in the world. Your skills is what make you notable towards the community. It's your boy... ///EuroCarGT 18:22, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

No more praise, guys, I'll start blushing . Seriously, thanks for your encouraging messages. It's good to read your points of view and think them over. Softlavender and EuroCar, I don't think adminship is an option for me, for the simple reason that I'll never pass RfA as it currently stands. The bar for becoming an admin has been raised to ridiculous standards (which is why we're slowly running out of them), and over the years the RfA process itself has become a hoop-jumping circus that I'm not willing to subject myself to. A big overhaul of that process is much needed, I believe. Pdebee's remarks about being a "natural mentor" gave me an idea. Maybe I should become a Teahouse host or something like that, and concentrate more on helping other editors. I'll look into that, maybe there's something there. Again, thanks for your encouragement. Cheers, Yintan  09:37, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Dear Yintan; Wonderful to read your latest update; it sounds like you might be turning the corner and I wish you well for the swift completion of that short journey . I'll come and visit your user page again from time to time, as I am hopeful you'll soon be back in another guise (although I quite liked your previous incarnation as a trapeze artist too!) I am sure there will be good and rewarding work for you to accomplish in the positive spirit of our wonderful encyclopedia and if the idea of teahouse hosting grabs you, then go for it. And now, I must go and find out what a 'teahouse' is... (See? I told you: you always help me with new knowledge!) Please keep well and joyful, Yintan, and thank you for keeping in touch. With kind regards for now; Patrick. Pdebee (talk) 09:59, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

I think you are selling yourself short in terms of adminship. Personally I think you'd be a shoo-in. You've annoyed a lot of vandals, but you've been noticed favorably by anyone with any credibility. You've worked here long and hard and always tried to be fair and you've done so with a sense of humor. Anyway, if you'd rather do the Teahouse thing, good luck and have fun. (Personally I found it a bit boring and mickey mouse ... maybe I didn't give it enough of a chance, but it seemed when I was there to be over-encouraging to the wrong kind of editors. That's just my personal slant from way back, so don't take it too seriously.) I personally think that maybe you are better at adopting editors, so that you can work closely with them in several areas and in several steps. Anyway, just shooting my mouth off here -- I'm sure your intuition will guide you as to your next steps on Wikipedia. Fair winds and following seas, as they say. :) Softlavender (talk) 10:09, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Adopting, hm, there's a thought. Anyways, I'm not sure what to do yet, I'm checking out some things, as yet undecided. Yintan  13:39, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Dear Yintan; I hope our friend Softlavender won't mind if I join in on her conversation with you. To me, "adopting" and "mentoring" are similar aspects of the same quality: taking someone under your wing and guiding him/her to achieve the overall goal of contributing quality updates to the encyclopedia. In short: you'll be very good at it, because ... you already are! You could also engage that quality by participating on the HELP desk, for example, where I imagine you could select the type of help you feel you can extend to others (in a fulfilling way for yourself), whether they'd be newbies or not. On a personal level, I think I am pretty much done now, with the Andy Irvine article. I have also made good progress with the *structure* of my latest venture and I am now focusing on the really interesting phase: writing the prose that will fill the gaps and underpin it all with the all-important citations, of course! . And I am also learning quite a lot simply by finding ways of personalizing my user page. All in all, I am having a really good time and I hope that you will feel the same again before too long. Until then, please keep well while you ponder on whatever role(s) you'll enjoy fulfilling when you return. With kind regards; Patrick. Pdebee (talk) 19:39, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

... And how do you like my new signature? : Patrick ツ Pdebee. (talk) 20:37, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Hi Patrick. I like your signature and I must admit I'm really pleased you're having a good time here. Who would have thought all that could come out of an edit reversal? Of course you're your own man and what you do here is your achievement and nobody else's, but I do like to think I helped you along and that feels good. Happy editing! Yintan  22:07, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

After being away from the internet for a few days, I too am surprised to come back and see such a sad notice at the top of your user page. You are one of a small band of marginalised and unpoliticized editors who actually do most of the hard and boring work here. I don't think you realise how valued you are, or what a massive effect you have - you are probably counteracting about 10 or 20 vandals at any one time when using Huggle, and you have made 1139 edits to WP:AIV. (1139 is pretty incredible - that puts you at about #35 in terms of edits to the page. I thought my 200+ was good.) I will happily nominate you for adminship, and I'm sure several others would, if you were to consent. I think your English is great - your user page is fantastic - and you could easily write articles if you wanted. I would recommend you at least try, as fighting vandals is uninteresting and soul-destroying at the best of times. Getting something to GA status does make you realise what a fantastic and worthwhile project this is. The only thing you lack is a bit of confidence in your own abilities, and what other people think of you. The comments would certainly suggest to me that you are held in deep respect by a number of people, myself included. And if you haven't, I would commend to you The Observations. Nothing in particular, just a more philosophical take on some aspects of Wikipedia in general. My best regards. James^x12345 14:16, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

Correction - you have got articles to GA. I don't see what more an RFA could ask for. James^x12345 14:41, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

Hi James. Thanks for your message. I'm still on the fence but it's good to read the supportive messages people have left me here. And yes, perhaps I should concentrate more on writing articles and helping others. As far as RfA is concerned, right now I'm not that interested for the reasons explained above. Thanks for the trust though, it's appreciated. I wasn't aware of The Observations but they're a pretty good read. Cheers, Yintan  22:07, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

Greetings all. Hi James, thanks for The Observations. That was brill, and heartening. All best wishes to everyone, Softlavender (talk) 11:02, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

Dear Yintan; What's this I see before my own eyes?! Your user page is being re-populated with its earlier content, and your image looks fiercer than ever before!!! I note that you're still supposed to be considered 'semi-retired', but it's really good to witness the first glimpse of your return! Looking forward to seeing you complete the journey before too long. Thank you for your nice words after my latest update above (17 October); yes, who'd have thought that it's all due to that initial edit reversal; but you see, this demonstrates once again that it was your entire approach that made all the difference: what another (perhaps less skilled) 'patroller' might have communicated as a simple 'put-down' turned into a really constructive experience for me, thanks to your own method of approach. Take care for now, Yintan, and come back soon! With kind regards; Patrick. ツ Pdebee. (talk) 15:10, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

I'll have a go. With a slow start . Thanks, Patrick. Yintan  12:29, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Yippeee! Welcome back, Yintan!! Patrick. ツ Pdebee. (talk) 11:10, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

Zaid HAmid

Hi i made a edit on the article Zaid Hamid as there is no reference for the Pashtun category that has been used in the article. I think some body mistakenly added the Pashtun category thinking about Zahid Hamid Khan i.e [[2]]. There is no mention Regarding Pashtun any where , he is born in karachi and all the articles here dont mention anything whether he is punjabi, pathan, sindhi or baloch. I would appreciate of you could look into the article and see if you can find a source link to the pashtun category that has been used here. this information is just misleading. I would appreciate if you could look into it. Thankyou. Even his own website hasnt mentioned any thing about it here [[3]] or [[4]] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Saladin1987 (talk • contribs) 13:21, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

Looking at your Talk page, I think it's best if you discuss that change first. That's why I tagged it 'unexplained removal'. Also, I don't see you anywhere in the article's history. You edited as an IP? Kind regards, Yintan  12:28, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Yes mate i edited it before i signed in so i think you might have seen my ip. but its just i thought if there is unsourced material it should be removed . Also thats why i posted the change. Also regarding my talk page i had some issues with another guy but we were both given warnings so everything is sorted out now. Shall i post on the articles talk page 60.240.206.221 (talk) 06:30, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

Barnstar of Awesome

	Barnstar of Awesome
	You are hereby awarded the Barnstar of Awesome for your amazing work alpha-testing The Wikipedia Adventure. Over 180 bugs were identified and 143 of them have been fixed already! (The rest are catalogued as known bugs). You. Are. Awesome. Check out your name in the game credits here: WP:TWA/About. Thank you again :) --User:Ocaasi 17:34, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

How you can help even more!

(and for which there may or may not be a super secret second extreme helper barnstar)

• Start over fresh with a new account: Like User:OcaasiTWA17 (these are legitimate alternate testing accounts and are not considered sockpuppets)
• Finish the game: Give some attention to missions 5-7 (which have been tested much less)
• Try a different browser: If you used Safari, try Firefox (or Chrome, Internet Explorer, Opera...)
• Show the game to a friend or family member to see how they like it and if they get stuck anywhere

Cheers! Ocaasi ^{t | c} 14:37, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

Userpage

What's with the Google note on your userpage now? Couldn't you add the hidden message __NOINDEX__ and mostly remove your userpage from Google search engines? Softlavender (talk) 02:44, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

I'm just playing around. My userpage is the first result in a Google 'Yintan' search, and right now I like to see "Fuck off, Google" at the top of their results. Yintan  09:27, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

Umm ... Okaaaay .... *steps away slowly* Softlavender (talk) 11:18, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

But apart from that, I don't have any strange hobbies and am mostly harmless. Yintan  11:47, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

MicroStrategy

Hi there, Yintan. This week, I came across your edits to MicroStrategy and, having seen the Help Desk discussion of same, I wanted to clarify the situation for you. (I'll be leaving a similar message with A Quest For Knowledge and have also left a quick note on the article's Talk.) The article was written by me, while I was working on behalf of MicroStrategy, and I disclosed this COI on the article's Talk page as well as elsewhere on Wikipedia at the time. At no point did I edit the page directly. When I began work on the page, MicroStrategy employees had previously made direct edits themselves, but after I explained that this was not best practice, they stopped doing this. As far as I know, they have not edited the MicroStrategy article or any others since.

Regarding the article itself, I understand that you disagree with certain wording and felt that edits were needed. That's fine by me, and I think that's part of the article's natural evolution over time. I'd just like to make clear that the draft I wrote was reviewed by a few independent editors, and that it was approved by these editors, one of whom then moved it live. I see that A Quest For Knowledge felt that some of the wording wasn't supported by sourcing. I don't agree on this and will discuss with them. Cheers, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 21:53, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

Hi. As you said, articles evolve over time and not all editors have the same opinions. I think the editors who approved your draft should have been a little stricter when it comes to the article's tone. As A Quest For Knowledge already stated "The article reads likes an advertisement with heavy usage of marketing language". I fully agree, which is why I replaced "scalable core analytics platform for business intelligence" with "software", for example. I obviously don't want to go back to the first ever version of the article[5], but I feel the current version needs a lot of work. Yintan  22:08, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks

For dealing with the vandal that hit my userpage. — Gwalla | Talk 16:51, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

My pleasure. Yintan  19:20, 30 October 2013 (UTC)