User talk:Whaledad/Archives2012/March

Talk:Jewish Defense League

Please read WP:Vandalism -good faith edits are never vandalism - also - please don't keep adding a titillating header - gassing the Arabs - its not what we need to be published all the time in a talkpage header - my edit is NPOV and your title has been kept but just not so its published for all users to see all the time - Users don't want to, or need to, read such racist comments so stop adding them to talkpage headers. Youreallycan 22:12, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

No good faith edit is vandalism. Please leave a neutral header, thanks - Youreallycan 22:39, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Rather than your continuing reverting - ask at WP:ANI for an opinion - Youreallycan 22:41, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Please stop changing My header. _W^\|/_haledad (Talk to me) 22:41, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Its not your header and you have no right to demand a header of your choice - keep it neutral and not titillating - no one wants to read that gassing stuff Youreallycan 22:43, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

As you seem to be unable to stop - Please take this as 3rr warning - Youreallycan 22:45, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

I know that nobody wants to read that stuff. Least of all the Palestinians on/near who's houses this was painted. It is still reality and a reality that cannot and may not be shoved under the carpet.

Please take this as the 4th warning to stop editing the header I placed above my comment on the JDL Talk Page. _W^\|/_haledad (Talk to me) 22:47, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

I am not interested in your personal issues - I just don't give a damn about what you are intense about, such as anonymous graffiti in Hebron - I give a damn about talkpage headers not being objectionable and mentioning gassing and suchlike - soapboxing in talkpage headers is not required - just keep it neutral - users and readers are not interested in such soapboxing - Final warning - wp:vandalism - no good faith edit is vandalism -please stop reinserting your disputed header - you do not own it - Youreallycan 22:52, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Whatever made you respond like this? I have no personal issues on this topic, nor did I indicate any. _W^\|/_haledad (Talk to me) 15:38, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Just an observation on this. It seems rather odd to me that the image has been removed from the JDL page, on the claim that it was not done by JDL and has now been removed from the settler violence page on the claim that it was done JDL. Dlv999 (talk) 10:08, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Almost as odd as it being included on both pages as this user had advocated. Surely it's an either or situation
Best Wishes AnkhMorpork (talk) 13:06, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

@Dlv999: Not as weird as you would think. It's all part of a "Camera-like" conserted effort to remove these pictures from Wikipedia anywhere in the world. _W^\|/_haledad (Talk to me) 15:18, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

@Ank, back to basic logic I am afraid. JDL and settlers are not mutually exclusive groups. JDL and not JDL are mutually exclusive groups. There is no logical contradiction in asserting that the graffiti was done by settlers and the JDL. Asserting that the graffiti was done by JDL and not done by JDL is absurd. Dlv999 (talk) 22:02, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Can you apply your basic logic and explain how the claim that "I've not yet found a good source stating for a fact that any of this racist / death-threat graffiti is left by JDL" denying JDL involvement is not contradictory to arguing the following:

• • 1. The picture is in itself a reliable source
    2. It's not disputed anywhere that this picture (or one of the many other similar pictures of similar graffiti signed JDL) is a true, unaltered depiction of graffiti sprayed in Hebron
    3. There are several pictures available on the web, showing similar expressions, so it's not a one-off
    4. This and similar pictures are regularly described and/or displayed by reliable source and even in official reports
    5. The graffiti itself is signed JDL, which (until and unless disputed OUTSIDE OF WIKIPEDIA, by reliable sources), means that the perpetrator claims to be part of and/or representing JDL
    6. Any claim here on Wikipedia that the graffiti was (take your pick) not likely, probably not, certainly not, absolutely not sprayed by or on behalf of JDL, without proper sourcing of such statement is original research and thus not a valid argument"
       Best Wishes AnkhMorpork (talk) 22:43, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Very simple, Ankh, items 1 through 6 make it highly likely (beyond reasonable doubt) that the graffiti was actually placed by either a member or a symphatizer of the JDL. But certain contributors demand hard, indisputable evidence that (A) the graffiti was left by such a person, and (B) that such a person was doing this with full permission/support by the JDL, can of course never be found. I was not denying any JDL involvement; quite to the contrary. I'm just tired of this whole game of: "we'll not place the image here, because we can't proof it was done by the JDL", "we won't place it there, because it was done by the JDL, not by the settlers" (which groups are of course not mutually exclusive; on the contrary). Combine this with efforts that certain contributors are doing to explain every act of violence by Israelis by a prior act of violence by Palestinians, while no such explanation is allowed when describing Palestinian acts of violence. The image this paints is very clear: in this conflict the Israelis are always innocent victims, and the Palestinians are always the aggressors. This sounds very much like certain contributors combating "propagandistic assaults on Israel . . . creating harmful misperceptions of Israel". Note that Wikipedia is the ONLY place where we have people denying the involvement of JDL, or even Israelis (or settlers) in this terrible graffiti.

I invite you to read these article and then think again:

• [1]: "The settlers set fire to a car that was parked in the entrance of the village and scribbled anti-Palestinian graffiti. "

• [2]: "Settlers have sprayed graffiti, including "Death to Arabs," on the shuttered stores."

• [3]: "The same day, other settlers wrote hostile words against Arabs on walls in the village of Jet, in the south of the Nablus District. The graffiti included statements such as “Death to Arabs” and “Go from our land”. "

• [4]: "Confused, the settlers began to draw new racist graffiti and each time they called on the Israeli soldiers to stand at the entrance of the military base and check Palestinians in the area."

• [5]: "The following day, the settlers returned to Oush Grab to mark the buildings with Jewish and racist graffiti and to hang their flags. They told the media their plans were to return in the coming week in order to prepare the site for Jewish residents." (This one also illustrates that the graffiti is part of a strategy for colonial expansion.)

• [6]: "In the middle of the night on 17th June, six settlers from Kiryat Arba forced entry into three shops in the centre of Hebron, damaging the doors and contents and graffiting anti-Arab slogans on the shop walls. These shops all belong to the Jaber family. An eyewitness, Kaed Da'na descried how "armed settlers came.., forced the doors of the shops and left after two hours of vandalism"." and " In the afternoon of 24th June, tens of settlers from numerous settlements and outposts in the city engaged in marches and demonstrations in the city centre. During the demonstration they forced the residents to leave the streets and threw stones at shops and houses. They chanted and graffitied a number of offensive slogans, such as "death to Arabs". This all happened under the protection of soldiers."

In short: I deplore the atrocities that have been and are being committed by Palestinians and other Arabs, but I also deplore terrorist and racist acts committed by Israelis and I will continue to resist a Wikipedia that has a lot of room for the first and none for the latter. _W^\|/_haledad (Talk to me) 23:09, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikipedia!

W e l c o m e Cookies to welcome you! Hello, Whaledad! Thank you for your contributions. My name's Airplaneman and I just wanted to say hi and Welcome to Wikipedia! You may benefit from following some of the links below, which will help you get the most out of the world's largest encyclopædia. If you have any questions, feel free to ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. I love to help new users, so don't be afraid to leave a message! Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking or by typing four tildes "~~~~"; this will automatically produce your name, the date and the time. You'll soon learn to appreciate people using helpful edit summaries, so please contribute by filling in that box (just above Save Page) every time you edit. If you are already loving Wikipedia, you might want to consider being "adopted" by a more experienced editor or joining aWikiProject to collaborate with others in creating and improving articles of your interest. (There's a comprehensiveDirectory of WikiProjects, and you'll find many article talk pages have banners from a relevant project.) Again, welcome, and happy editing! Airplaneman ✈ 20:43, 3 May 2010 (UTC) Some useful links to learn more about Wikipedia: Getting Started Wikipedia Tutorial • The five pillars of Wikipedia How to: edit a page • upload an image Getting Help Frequently Asked Questions Where to ask questions or make comments Request administrator attention Policies and Guidelines Neutral point of view • Reliable sources Verifiability • Citing sources • No original research What Wikipedia is not • Biographies of living persons Manual of Style • Three-revert rule • Sock puppetry Copyrights • Policy for non-free content • Image use policy External links • Spam • Vandalism Deletion policy • Conflict of interest • Notability The Community Community Portal • Adopt-a-user program Assume good faith • Civility • Etiquette No personal attacks • Resolving disputes Build consensus • Village pump Signpost • IRC channels • Mailing lists Things to do Be bold in editing • Help develop an article Pages needing attention • Peer review Join a WikiProject • Translating articles Cleaning up: General • Spam • Vandalism Miscellaneous Categories • Disambiguity • Stubs User pages • Talk pages Useful templates • Tools • User scripts

To do

Translate into English:

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[[Bestand:Johannes Wtenbogaert by Rembrandt van Rijn.jpg|thumb|Johannes Wtenbogaert door Rembrandt van Rijn (1633)]] Johannes Wtenbogaert, ook wel geschreven als Johannes Uytenbogaert, (Utrecht, 1557 - Den Haag, 1644) was eenNederlandse predikant en prozaschrijver uit de Gouden Eeuw. Wtenbogaert werd geboren als zoon van August Wtenbogaert. Hij werd in 1584 predikant in Utrecht en in 1591 in Den Haag. Wtenbogaert was een belangrijke figuur in de Nederlandse kerkgeschiedenis van de Gouden Eeuw. Niet alleen was hij de hofprediker van prins Maurits, ook was hij een leider bij het indienen van de Remonstrantie van 1610. Eén van de punten uit het proteststuk dat werd neergelegd bij de Staten-Generaal was dat er verscheidenheid in religieuze opvatting mogelijk moest zijn. Tijdens de wapenstilstand in de Tachtigjarige Oorlog raakte hij in conflict met de orthodoxe prins Maurits en hij viel in ongenade bij de stadhouder. Na de gevangenneming van Johan van Oldenbarnevelt vluchtte hij het land uit. In 1626, na de dood van prins Maurits, keerde hij weer terug naar Nederland, waar hij ook weer predikant werd. Hij was de beschermheer van Jan Lievens, die hem ook schilderde. Hij overleed op 87-jarige leeftijd in Den Haag. Rembrandt schilderde zijn portret in 1633. Dit portret is te zien in het Rijksmuseum in Amsterdam. Werken Ses de laetste Predicatiën, 1639 Kerkelicke Historie, 1646 {{DEFAULTSORT:Wtenbogaert, Johannes}} [[Categorie:Nederlands kerkhistoricus]] [[Categorie:Persoon in de Tachtigjarige Oorlog]] [[Categorie:Remonstrants predikant]]

Voor onze grote vriend

Leuke link: Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring

Wel eerst waarschuwen wanneer "hij" de 3RR-regel overtreedt. Eddylandzaat (talk) 03:52, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

To be translated: Brigade M

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Whaledad/Archives2012/March Website website Brigade M is een Nederlandse rechtsnationalistische Rock Against Communism-band uit Sassenheim in deBollenstreek. De drijvende kracht achter Brigade M is steeds Tim Mudde geweest. De band ontstond in 1995 uit de resten van de Sassenheimse hardcoreformatie Opel Kadeath. Aanvankelijk was het repertoire van de band beperkt en het aantal concerten miniem. Pas enkele jaren na de oprichting begint de band aan een opmars in deextreemrechtse subculturen vanEuropa. Onder de naam 'Dirk' repeteerde Brigade M een tijdlang in het Muziekhuis in Leiden. Hierop werd gereageerd door verschillende buurtbewoners en links getinte verenigingen. Wethouder Pechtold, die bevoegd was voor deze aangelegenheden, besloot om de band verder te laten repeteren omdat hij er wettelijk niets aan kon doen. Als "dank" componeerde Brigade M het liedje Pechtold Houzee!. thumb|right|150px|Tim Mudde in 2004 In 2003 onderging de band een grondige wijziging. De twee leden met het meest extremistische gedachtegoed werden door Tim Mudde aan de deur gezet en vervolgens sloeg Brigade M een meer gematigde rechtse koers in. Zo werd het nationaalsocialisme naar de prullenbak verwezen en werdenstrasserisme, metapolitiek, volksnationalisme, taalpurismen, Europese eenheid en conservatieve maatschappijkritiek de fundamenten van de band. Ook begon de band aandacht te besteden aan vegetarisme,drankmisbruik en ongezonde voeding. Brigade M heeft ook aandacht voor de Arabisch-Israëlisch conflict, waarbij zij partij kiezen voor Palestina. De teksten van Brigade M worden door de leden zelf omschreven als "radicaal en nationalistisch". De controversiële nummers hebben titels als Schande voor ons ras, Trouw aan rood, wit en blauw, Pechtold Houzee en Nederlands voor de Nederlanders. In het nummer 50.000 helden brengt de band een ode aan de Nederlandse leden van de Waffen-SS die aan het oostfront vochten. Zij zouden eerherstel moeten krijgen. En in het nummer Lui, laf en lelijk beschimpt de bandantifascisten. In weer een ander nummer zingt Mudde dat "het Turkse tuig in Nederland niets anders doet dan stelen", dat "voorstanders van multicultuur eindigen tegen de muur" en "Volkert is een mietje, een laffe pisnicht, Volkert moet dood'. De band ging in 2005 uiteen, nadat ze hun laatste cd Nationaal Revolutionair uitgebracht hadden. De reden die te lezen is op hun website is dat de nationaal-revolutionaire ideeën van de band weinig of geen gehoor vonden bij de nationalistische subculturen in Europa omdat de meeste nationalisten té chauvinistisch zijn. Discografie 'Promo' Holland (MCD) Boykot McDood (7") Pechtold Houzee! / Volkert is een Mietje (MP3 Download) Diets-Deutsche Kameraden (cd, split met Stromschlag en Schutt und Asche) Trouw aan Rood, Wit, Blauw (cd) Ode aan de kazerne (7") Dutch Hungarian brotherhood (cd, split met Fehér Törvény) Het vrije woord wordt vermoord!(MP3 Download) Nationaal-Revolutionair (cd) Nationalrevolutionär (cd) National Revolutionary (cd) Eigen volk eerst (MP3 Download) 50000 helden (MP3 Download) De Brigade M Bloes (MP3 Download) Turkiyemspor (MP3 Download) Richard Houzee! (MP3 Download) Schande voor ons ras (MP3 Download) Bron http://www.nationaalrevolutionair.com/. {{cite web}}: Cite has empty unknown parameters: |uitgever=, |auteur=, and |datum= (help); Missing or empty |title= (help); Unknown parameter |bezochtdatum= ignored (help); Unknown parameter |taal= ignored (help); Unknown parameter |titel= ignored (|title= suggested) (help) (in English) Brigade M op Discogs Translated and created See: Brigade M SpeakFree (talk) 15:30, 14 March 2011 (UTC) Dank je! Ik heb echt veel te wenig tijd tegenwoordig. --Whaledad (talk) 20:15, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Obsidian123

My apologies.... no offence was intended (and I have no problem with the reversion). My line of thinking was simply that this user's comments were off-topic and irrelevant. They were not about trying to improve the article but were a tu quoque instead. In spite of this, I tried to reply to their post politely, but I admit to wrongly getting frustrated - I got "carried away" and wrongly removed their comments.

The other thing was - although it's not an "offense", this user posted his/her comments in one large unwieldy block. That probably didn't help my frame of mind (although it's not an excuse...... ) —Preceding unsigned comment added byObsidian123 (talk • contribs) 07:45, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

No problem. There are different ways to deal with this. Ignoring is one. "Collapsing" is another (no time to lookup the code for that now. PS: always end your comments with ~~~~ to insert your signature. --Whaledad (talk) 12:19, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Ok - thanks for your comments! I'll have to remember the four-tilde signature thing too.... :)

Obsidian123 (talk) 08:37, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Istochleukzonnaam/Archive

I have reverted your edits on Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Istochleukzonnaam/Archive, please go to WP:SPI which will have specific instructions to help you. -- DQ (t) (e) 18:54, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

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