User talk:Venndiagram8

Hello, Venndiagram8! Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions to this free encyclopedia. If you decide that you need help, check out Getting Help below, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking

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SOLVED!

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Excelencia in Education

Hi Venndiagram8. I recently deleted Excelencia in Education, an article you created, because it was solely promotional in tone and contained significant text that was copied from copyrighted sources. Please see the welcome message at the top of this page for more information on Wikipedia norms, and be sure to review WP:COI and WP:PAID to ensure that you are in compliance with the relevant policies. Feel free to reach out if you have any questions. Best, Kevin (aka L235 · t · c) 21:22, 4 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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Editing with a possible conflict of interest?

Hello Venn. I want to ask: do you have any sort of connection to Excelencia in Education. I will generate a COI template for you to look over below.

Hello, Venndiagram8. We welcome your contributions, but if you have an external relationship with the people, places or things you have written about on Wikipedia, you may have a conflict of interest (COI). Editors with a conflict of interest may be unduly influenced by their connection to the topic. See the conflict of interest guideline and FAQ for organizations for more information. We ask that you:

avoid editing or creating articles about yourself, your family, friends, company, organization or competitors;
propose changes on the talk pages of affected articles (see the {{request edit}} template);
disclose your conflict of interest when discussing affected articles (see WP:DISCLOSE);
avoid linking to your organization's website in other articles (see WP:SPAM);
do your best to comply with Wikipedia's content policies.

In addition, you must disclose your employer, client, and affiliation with respect to any contribution which forms all or part of work for which you receive, or expect to receive, compensation (see WP:PAID).

Also please note that editing for the purpose of advertising, publicising, or promoting anyone or anything is not permitted. Thank you.--SamHolt6 (talk) 06:32, 17 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Sam. I will follow all the guidelines. It may take me a few days. I will keep you posted. fyi this is a notable nonprofit - one of the most prominent Hispanic advocacy and civil rights groups. Not trying to "publicize" per se, just state the facts. I am not an employee or affiliate of the nonprofit. It was my idea to create the page for them; I am being compensated by their PR consultants for editing, which I will disclose. My question is, how do I do any of this? When I submitted it it disappeared from my sandbox. Thanks. VennDiagram8 User:Venndiagram8

@Venndiagram8: thank you for your cordiality. To begin, as an editor who is being paid to edit in some function, you must abide by both WP:COI and WP:PAID. To sum it it up, you must:

Disclose on your user-page (which is at User:Venndiagram8) who is employing you, who your client is, and which articles you have been paid to edit.
Disclose via edit summary, at Draft talk:Excelencia in Education, or on your user-page (I recommend this option as it intertwines with the point above) that you are editing for pay.
Refrain from directly editing an article with which you have a conflict of interest; for this reason, I highly recommend you finish Draft:Excelencia in Education (you can edit drafts without restriction) before submitting the article for review.

Assuming this is all done, you can submit the article for review at WP:AFC and it will likely be added to the main article space. Feel free to ask me if you have any questions.--SamHolt6 (talk) 04:25, 18 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hi again Sam, the problem is that I already submitted it for review after making all the recommended changes so now it is gone from my sandbox. I thought I could do the disclosure after that because I didn't know it disappeared from the sandbox. Is there another place I can find my draft? Is there a URL that will get me to Draft talk:Excelencia in Education? Meanwhile, if I understand correctly, I can make a note on my OWN user page disclosing that I suggested ExEd needed a Wikipedia page, so their marketing consultants paid me for my time creating it. Did I get that right? And I promise I will NEVER do that again :)

@Venndiagram8: hello again. Your draft can be found at Draft:Excelencia in Education; the accompanying talkpage is at Draft talk:Excelencia in Education, and this talkpage will be transfered to the main article space once the article is reviewed. I note that it has been submitted to WP:AFC so you are on track and the draft will soon be reviewed by a member of WP:AFC. This leaves disclosure as the last matter to be resolved; as before, you can disclose via your userpage or at Draft talk:Excelencia in Education. Note that regardless of which option you choose, you are required to list your employer and client on your user-page. Best, and ask me if you have any further questions.--SamHolt6 (talk) 00:09, 20 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@SamHolt6:

Hi Sam, Hope you had a nice Thanksgiving weekend. I disclosed on both my user page and on Draft talk:Excelencia in Education. If you have a second could you take a look and see if I am now compliant? Thanks!

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Your submission at Articles for creation: Excelencia in Education (December 9)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by HighKing was:

This submission's references do not show that the subject qualifies for a Wikipedia article—that is, they do not show significant coverage (not just passing mentions) about the subject in published, reliable, secondary sources that are independent of the subject (see the guidelines on the notability of organizations and companies). Before any resubmission, additional references meeting these criteria should be added (see technical help). If no additional references exist, the subject is not suitable for Wikipedia.

The comment the reviewer left was:

Despite 44 references, none appear to meet the criteria for establishing the notability of the organization itself. There are interviews with the organization's president (fails ORGIND) and mentions-in-passing whenever one of the organization's reports are quoted or their awards program, but there is no significant coverage of the actual organization.

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.

If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Excelencia in Education and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
If you now believe the draft cannot meet Wikipedia's standards or do not wish to progress it further, you may request deletion. Please go to Draft:Excelencia in Education, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window, add "{{db-self}}" at the top of the draft text and click the blue "publish changes" button to save this edit.
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You can also use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

HighKing⁺⁺ 21:08, 9 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, Venndiagram8! Having an article declined at Articles for Creation can be disappointing. If you are wondering why your article submission was declined, please post a question at the Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the Teahouse, a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! HighKing⁺⁺ 21:08, 9 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I would like to respectfully appeal this decision. This is an advocacy group for an underserved minority. The fact that the minority in question - Hispanic Americans - needs advocacy goes hand in hand with the fact that it is underserved, and - in fact - under represented by the US Press. References include not only the LATimes The WashPo, Forbes, and many other top publications but many extremely prominent Educational journals and organizations, all of which speak to the respect with which the organization is held in Education and policy worlds. Saying they don't have significant coverage would be like saying a prominent medical researcher doesn't have significant coverage because they are only cited in the AMA journal and not Fox News. The fact that this has been rejected as "not notable" makes me wonder if it is perhaps considered "not notable" because the demographic it advocates for is considered as not "notable" to the reviewer. I very much hope that is not the case. Please consider the references carefully and reconsider the rejection - which the organization is not Time Magazine's "person of the year" they are highly respected by - and significant to - universities, policy makers, and educational organizations. Perhaps you could have it reviewed by one of your editors who is an education specialist.

Okay WHOA there! Making accusations and insinuations like that are not going to endear anyone to your case. Please tone it down and remember to assume good faith.

First off, I'll be up-front and clear that I'm simply applying what I see are our policies and guidelines to each draft that I review. I am not picking and choosing topics I like or don't like. That should also be interpreted to mean I don't really care if the topic concerns an advocacy group for an underserved minority or a lawn tennis association for rich folk or a hedge fund that buys mortgages and evicts tenants or a beer-producing monastery. The policies/guidelines are the same.

Now, you've stated that there are good references in the LATimes, WashPo, Forbes and many other "top" publications. Let's look at the ones you've named and I'll clearly point out why those references fail the criteria for establishing notability. The criteria are contained in WP:NCORP.

There are two LATimes reference. The second is a blog, a self-published source and therefore fails as a reliable source and is not considered for the purposes of establishing notability (nor is it regarded as reliable to support and facts/data within your article). The first reference entitled "Most Latino students spurn college loans" relies on a quotation and data provided from Deborah Santiago, VP for policy and research. This fails WP:ORGIND as it is not "intellectually independent". It also fails WP:CORPDEPTH as there is no in-depth information provided about the company (the topic of this draft article).

This Washington Post reference relies entirely on a report published by the company and the topic of the article is based on the content of the report. There is no in-depth information or discussion of the company itself and therefore fails WP:ORGIND.

The Forbes reference is excluded from consideration as it is on the "sites" part of the website - that is the part of the site that will "accept public contributions" and doesn't "provide meaningful editorial oversight of the submitted content". If you click the little "i" beside the word "Contributor" after the article author's name, a little pop-up states "Opinions expressed by Forbes Contributors are their own". The Forbes site is mentioned specificall in section 2.3.1 of WP:ORGIND. Even if that wasn't the case, the article itself only mentions the company in passing and would fail WP:CORPDEPTH.

Hopefully, you will find the breakdown of those three references helpful. I encourage you to read WP:NCORP (especially WP:CORPDEPTH and WP:ORGIND) so that you will get a better understanding of the criteria applied to references to establish notability. HighKing⁺⁺ 19:00, 18 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, HighKing, but still don't understand why the mentions in educational journals and by colleges and universities aren't substantial. And I don't see how the references in this wikipedia entry for instance (the first 3 of which are from their own website) are substantially better: https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/UNCF

Excelencia in Education is an advocacy group for a demographic that needs advocacy precisely because it is under-reported: From WP:Orgind - The word "multiple" is not a set number and depends on the type of organization or product. Editors should recognize certain biases, such as recentism (greater availability of recent sources) when assessing historical companies or systemic bias (greater availability of English and Western sources) when discussing organizations in the developing world.

I would respectfully suggest that the references you mention where the directors are quoted speak to the respect this organization commands, particularly in Washington and California, hence the Post doesn't feel it HAS to qualify the organization when it cites it. Ditto the fact that so many colleges and college presidents rely on its research and participate in its Presidents' initiative. And that the fact that it is not regularly featured in "major media" comes from systemic bias.

While my initial draft had multiple problems, I have worked hard to fix it and believe it is valid and as notable and referenced as hundreds of articles I've seen on Wikipedia. If you are looking at this one particularly harshly because I was initially compensated, please know that that was months ago and I know longer have any contact with the organization. I am pursuing it on principle: it IS a notable nonprofit run by highly respected educators, and while it isn't known by most of the general non-Hispanic America public (outside of education experts), that is because it represents a minority that NEEDS great advocacy. I urge you to reconsider.

HighKing- did you see the above message? Thanks

Your draft article, Draft:Excelencia in Education

Hello, Venndiagram8. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "Excelencia in Education".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply edit the submission and remove the {{db-afc}}, {{db-draft}}, or {{db-g13}} code.

If your submission has already been deleted by the time you get there, and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion by following the instructions at this link. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:37, 29 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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