User talk:Utkun

January 2011

Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia, you are reminded not to attack other editors, as you did on User talk:Walter Görlitz. Please comment on the contributions and not the contributors. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. You are welcome to rephrase your comment as a civil criticism of the article. Thank you. I made no comments on your talk or your anonymous talk page that you should 1) threaten to sue (that's a personal attack) 2) that you should use profanity towards me. If you want to see what other Turkish nationals have achieved please see Talk:Mesut Özil. It has been decided that no nationality will be displayed to Mesut Özil because, despite having been born in Germany and being recognized as a German by FIFA. He carried dual citizenship until recently. It's all outlined clearly on Talk:Mesut Özil. Walter Görlitz (talk) 18:37, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Contrary to what I just read on my talk page, my actions were not racist or even racially motivated. Please see the discussion which was just moved to the message archives. Your statement Turkish-German footballer) is incorrect since he's a German footballer of Turkish heritage. He held a Turkish passport but gave it up. It's all in the archive. You're also mistaken that there's nothing in the article about his Turkish heritage. There is material about this in the Personal life section. This is in keeping with the guidelines around biographies on Wikipedia. I don't know if it was me who removed these inaccuracies since I don't know your IP address, and you have only made one change to the article using this account, and it was removed by another editor.

What you wrote about the German pronunciation of his Turkish name on my talk page makes no sense. All it does is confirm that he's a German of Turkish origin. The pronunciation of his name uses the most common English pronunciation, not the German one (which is quite different), not the Spanish one (where he currently plays), and not the Turkish one. That's not racist, it's a reflection of how his name is said in English.

I never asked for any reference of his Turkish origin. It's well-documented. There's no documentation of his mother being Kurdish though.

As for the Turkish constitution indicating the nationality of an individual by heritage, that's great and is common across many other nations of the world. The constitution doesn't make him Turkish, it just makes it so that he can be considered Turkish and hold a Turkish passport (provided that the country which he chooses to live in allows its citizens to hold a Turkish passport). However, he has chosen to renounce his Turkish citizenship, or at least give up the passport, at least temporarily, but that's not important since he's a football player and his nationality and heritage are not what the article is focusing on.

According to Wikipedia:No personal attacks you are once again mistaken about threatening to sue not being a personal attack. A thread of legal action is considered a personal attack.

Consensus has already been reached on the article and the discussion around that is recorded in the message archives. If you want to start a new discussion, please do so on the article's talk page and follow the policies and guidelines on Wikipedia for doing achieving a new consensus. Any further changes against the current consensus on the article will be considered vandalism and treated as such. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 18:28, 31 January 2011 (UTC)