User talk:Tuckerresearch/Talk Archive 2018

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BoringHistoryGuy (talk) 14:46, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

Texas flag talk (Just an Interesting Tidbit.)

Zavala Flag speculative

Zavala Flag speculative

Pernambucan Revolt Flag

The first congress of Texas was convened under the Lone Star and Stripes. --Thegunkid (talk) 06:54, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

I've always suspected that the lone star and stripes was the de facto flag of the Republic. TuckerResearch (talk) 13:01, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

I believe it was due to the fact this was the naval flag and at the time in the antebellum, land flags weren't cared for much; From what I understand people didn't care for the national flag until the Civil War. That said I wonder where this statement that there's no contemporary drawings of the Burnet flag when the steamer on the Texas 1837 2 Dollar Bill was clearly flying it. Also I don't understand why other vexillologists deride the Zavala flag as being some late 19th century invention of the Daughters of the Republic considering the proof we both see of it's existence.

While we're on this topic, I heard years ago that the current Texas flag predates actually 1839 since supposedly some Mexican museum has captured artillery colors from before it's adoption showing the same pattern, do you might know what the source of this is? I lost it a long time ago. --Thegunkid (talk) 23:18, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

@Thegunkid: I think the vexillologists deride the blue "Zavala" flag as being (a) an official flag of Texas (I often see it referred to online as the "first flag of the republic") and (b) designed by Zavala. Those two incorrect assertions have given the flag a life of its own, far above its existence and import. I've never seen the back of an 1837 Republic of Texas $2 bill. I also don't know about any flags that might be in Mexican museums, except the flag of the New Orleans Greys. There is this, though: http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/mex-war/captured-flags.jpg, supposedly flags captured by Mexico from US/Texas. TuckerResearch (talk) 19:43, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

Correction, 1838, and I wouldn't suppose you have because the back of the 1838 notes were blank. It was 1839 the zavala star was added. Anyway here it is.. Anyway as for it being derided by vexillogist it comes from here, and I've seen it in some other sources as well with even the 2018-2019 Texas Almanac even stating there's no evidence the flag ever actually existed. So I would encourage you due to your position as a professor to ask the TSHA to correct this error. To add, looking at the notes about the Zavala flag, I decided to recreate the proposed amendment to the flag in and of it's self (note in the days of old rainbows were traditionally depicted as 3 colors), and as I made it I suddenly realized I've seen this design somewhere else, surely enough the flag of the Pernambucan revolt was close to it. All that said, honestly in all due respect I think Zavala's original proposal was simply a white star on blue field.

Meanwhile that painting is very interesting, since there's the Galveston Invincibles flag which is blue there, but yet it was supposedly red according to records.--Thegunkid (talk) 23:04, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

@Thegunkid: A red "Zavala"-style flag would be nice to have made. As for your rainbow, what of this: "The members even specified the order of colors for the rainbow. In attendance at the session was Eduard Harkort, who elaborated in his diary a few days later: "A rainbow color scheme must be added to the Texian flag, and as a matter of fact in the following order, Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue, Indigo, Violet." I'd have to track down the diary if I wanted to be sure. You'll also note, on that page, that the author believes the rainbow flag had stripes. As to Zavala's original design, "...the flag of Mr. Zavala accepted on Friday last," I would say it was a blue star or a blue star with American stripes. Of course, it appears that the provisional government never got around to voting on and approving any of these flags, and they likely never flew.

What of the so-called "Crockett flag"? From a set of faked Crockett diaries published after the Alamo: "We have a had a large national flag made. It is composed of thirteen stripes, red and white, alternating on a blue ground, with a large white star, of five points, in the center, and between the points the letters 'TEXAS.'" TuckerResearch (talk) 23:34, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

Well according to the author it's purely speculation on his behalf based on the fact that the Lone Star and Stripes was already in use by Texian ships at the time; Also I would like to see this diary since I'm still very confused by this term "western horizon" since I'm under the assumption this was just a convoluted way of saying top left corner since the curved shape of a rainbow forms a horizon in a sense, and left is "western".

As for the crocket flag I honestly don't know; I do know that the only flag known to have flown over the Alamo was the flag of Coahuila y Tejas per the somewhat controversial 1836 Sanchez Sketch; Now that aside looking at that, I have a question if you know of any other sources refering to the San Felipe flag; since the main source I see cited for it's design, which is a Telegraph and Texas Register article; doesn't match the way it's depicted as the article plainly states there should be a Mexican tricolor on it; yet it's depicted as simply a white star on a green square? Oh and to add, I found out the red flag the San Felipe company flew at San Jacinto was simply a plain red handkerchief since somewhere along the way Baker lost the flag. --Thegunkid (talk) 00:45, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

Updated the flags. --Thegunkid (talk) 02:52, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

Texas Divisionism

So inspired by this map I've done some research into Texas divisionism but I'm having trouble finding the actual proposed states since due to my schedule I'm mainly limited to searchable archives; most of which are various newspaper snippets here and there. Anyway my map is based on some of the proposals I've seen, but it's missing several mentioned by this Texas Handbook article, with the purple line being a vague guess based on a vague map in a old Texas monthly issue from the 1970s of the 1871 proposal to divide the state but with no details offered in the article.

So I'm wondering if you can tell me about the Isaac Van Zandt proposals since you specialize in that time period and he was one of the few politicians of the republic to give proposals on dividing the state, and Edmund J. Davis' 1871 attempt at dividing the state as well since I'm unable to find the exact legislation that defined the proposed borders for the 5 Texases.

Also I am perplexed by this proposal mentioned "On February 25, 1870, the Howard Bill, closely resembling earlier proposals in Congress, was introduced. It called for two territories, Jefferson east of the San Antonio River, and Matagorda west of the Colorado." the reason I'm perplexed is the San Antonio River is west of the Colorado and vice versa so how is this not a paradox? --Thegunkid (talk) 01:06, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

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Best wishes for a happy 2019

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Thank you for your contributions toward making Wikipedia a better and more accurate place.
BoringHistoryGuy (talk) 16:11, 31 December 2018 (UTC)