User talk:Trcrev

Welcome!

Hello, Trcrev, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Again, welcome! Caper13 20:07, 5 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Saddam Hussein

Hi trcrev. I noticed you hadnt been officially welcomed yet so I took the liberty. I have also been scanning the Saddam Hussein talk page after noticing the edit war that is going back and forth about calling Saddam a dictator and I liked your comments about the google definition. Dictator can certainly be used as a epithet, but it doesnt have to be. It can be a fairly NPOV descriptor of a ruler's position. By all means it isnt generally viewed as complimentary, and is generally seen as something somewhat negative, but NPOV does not mean that descriptors used must carry no positive or negative connotations. Referring to someone, say John Wayne Gacy as a mass murderer isnt a violation of NPOV simply because it conveys a negative meaning, because part of who he was WAS negative. You are just being accurate, just as referring to someone else as a philanthropist isnt a violation of NPOV just because it carries a positive connotation (as long as it is accurate).

Using the dictionary definition of dictator, Saddam was almost undeniably one. I'd like to try to seek a common ground that would identify Saddam as President and Dictator of Iraq (or refer to his rule as a dictatorship) pretty high up in the article, even in the opening paragraph, and then make no further use of the term through the article. We acknowledge the fact that Saddam was a dictator up front, without calling him a bloody tyrant and then let the facts in the rest of the article speak for themselves. A dictator does not have to be specifically positive or negative. Some people around the world have been referred to as dictators, Castro, Chavez but also Lee Kwan Yew in Singapore who some described as a dictator, but most agreed he was fairly benevolent. Of course, I don't think that Saddam was benevolent, but I think we should allow the facts to speak for themselves in that sense, and I'd really like to end the stupid edit war that is going on, but I think that unless he is legitimately identified as a dictator at the outset, it will be a neverending thing of people inserting that into the article, and if its going to be there, I'd like to see it done in an NPOV way. Personally, I think we can use the term dictator just like we would use the word parliamentarian or monarch or President and this complies with NPOV as long as we don't use it as an epithet. What do you think? I am going to float this idea to a couple of other people and see what they say. I'd bring it up in the talk page, but that has gotten so convoluted I can't keep track of the discussions anymore. Appreciate your thoughts. Caper13 20:07, 5 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]